mentalfloss Posted September 27, 2013 Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 (edited) Just as Harper was starting to recover from his Senate failings. This looks like it will hit even harder since it's coming from the house and enforced by E.C. Mr. Del Mastro, MP for Peterborough, Ont., is facing four charges in connection with allegations that he exceeded his campaign spending limit and filed a false accounting of the expenses incurred to win office in the 2008 federal election. “In our electoral system, it is fundamentally important that the spending and contribution limits enacted by Parliament be respected. It is also essential that the reports and information provided to Elections Canada be accurate and truthful,” said Yves Côté, Commissioner of Canada Elections. “We will continue to be vigilant to ensure that these rules are observed.” Mr. Del Mastro is charged with exceeding the limit that a candidate can contribute to his own campaign when he allegedly paid an election expense of $21,000 from his own pocket. The personal limit was $2,100. Both the MP and Richard McCarthy, his official agent in the 2008 campaign, are charged with exceeding the $92,655.79 election expenses limit for the Peterborough race. They are charged with submitting an electoral campaign return that omitted to report a contribution, and election expense, of $21,000, and instead reported an expense of only $1,575. This, Elections Canada alleged, was submitting a material statement they knew or should “reasonably … have known” was false or misleading. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/tory-mp-dean-del-mastro-charged-by-elections-canada-with-concealing-21000/article14547903/ Edited September 27, 2013 by mentalfloss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted September 27, 2013 Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 (edited) He cheated and won. He's been an MP for 7 or 8 years now which means a sizable pension. It reminds me of the athletes that get caught juicing. Sure they are a little embarrassed now, but they were able to play a game for a living and still keep the money in the end. That's the lesson for today kids...cheaters often prosper. Edited September 27, 2013 by Mighty AC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted September 27, 2013 Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 He cheated and won. He's been an MP for 7 or 8 years now which means a sizable pension. It reminds me of the athletes that get caught juicing. Sure they are a little embarrassed now, but they were able to play a game for a living and still keep the money in the end. That's the lesson for today kids...cheaters often prosper.You make a good point. If he won by cheating, then he should lose his pension too, and any other benefits won by cheating.Could it be confiscated as 'proceeds of crime'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 27, 2013 Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 He shouldn't lose his pension. He has done the job and would end up losing almost a decade of his retirement savings as a result. That's an unreasonable punishment, imo. He should be forced to abdicate his seat though, not just leave caucus. Who gives a crap if he's not on the government benches. He's still sitting in the House voting with them. Nothing changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted September 27, 2013 Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 (edited) He shouldn't lose his pension. He has done the job and would end up losing almost a decade of his retirement savings as a result. That's an unreasonable punishment, imo. He should be forced to abdicate his seat though, not just leave caucus. Who gives a crap if he's not on the government benches. He's still sitting in the House voting with them. Nothing changes.He's only entitled to a pension because he won a second term ... by cheating.If he keeps his pension, cheating was worth it, and others will be encouraged to do likewise. I think there's a lot of such cheating going on. Companies can no longer donate large amounts so they get a lot of their employees to donate smaller amounts and they reimburse them, sometimes with a bonus as in this one element of the Del Mastro case. Note: This is a separate investigation, not reflected in current charges: http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2013/09/26/dean-del-mastro-charged-under-the-canada-elections-act Makes you wonder what the company gets from the politician in return ... ? If he's convicted and it's clear he won by cheating ... I think he should lose his pension and salary. Criminals shouldn't get to keep proceeds of their crimes, imo. A $5000 fine is no deterrent. And it looks to me that Del Mastro used every dirty trick possible. Edited September 27, 2013 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted September 27, 2013 Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 Del Mastro keeps the idea of the crooked car salesman going. I think he isn't entitled to his pension because he's charged with the election of 2008, which he has only 2-3 years as a MP and by cheating, he had unfair advantage over the other candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 27, 2013 Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 And does he lose his seat entirely? If not, what's to stop others from cheating when the ends justify the means? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted September 27, 2013 Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 And does he lose his seat entirely? If not, what's to stop others from cheating when the ends justify the means? If convicted, yes. I'm not inclined to see someone punished until they're convicted, but then he should lose everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 Convicted of what? Spending too much money on his election campaign? You want to strip him of nearly 10 years of pension for that? Your suggestion is ridiculous. I can't stand Dean Del Mastro and dislike the entire conservative apparatus even more and even I think that's a ridiculously punitive approach. Bar him from running for office, sure. But to take away the guy's pension when he did a job for years, despite spending too much during the election, that's just nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalfloss Posted September 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 I agree with cybercoma. Getting him out of office seems appropriate enough. Even if cheaters win, we can always learn from each scenario and try to prevent repeating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) Convicted of what? Spending too much money on his election campaign? You want to strip him of nearly 10 years of pension for that? Your suggestion is ridiculous. I can't stand Dean Del Mastro and dislike the entire conservative apparatus even more and even I think that's a ridiculously punitive approach. Bar him from running for office, sure. But to take away the guy's pension when he did a job for years, despite spending too much during the election, that's just nonsense.He's only been there since 2006.There may be more charges coming. He could spend a few years in jail. Edited September 28, 2013 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienB Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) He cheated and won. He's been an MP for 7 or 8 years now which means a sizable pension. It reminds me of the athletes that get caught juicing. Sure they are a little embarrassed now, but they were able to play a game for a living and still keep the money in the end. That's the lesson for today kids...cheaters often prosper. Should an MP who won by election fraud really be able to get a pension for those years, that is insane he should have to repay his salary for all those years as he gained it by fraud if he did it. second every law he voted on, should be assessed to see if his vote effected the outcome, and his comments should be noted in the hansard as being by a shill. None the less these steps probably won't happen, but parliament is far too generous with itself because corruption is a norm in Ottawa. This is much like the ignorance of online malicious hacking and fraud getting a slap on the wrist... laws need to be tougher on these "white crimes" they should have serious sanctions, election fraud is one of the worst fraud that exists... its things like this that scream for tarring and feathering to be re-instituted. people should fear cheating in elections. they should be stripped of their property and citizenship, sent to a work camp or exiled for the worst offence against democracy that exists. Has this ruling had its appeals exhausted yet though? Edited September 28, 2013 by AlienB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 Convicted of what? Spending too much money on his election campaign? You want to strip him of nearly 10 years of pension for that? Your suggestion is ridiculous. I can't stand Dean Del Mastro and dislike the entire conservative apparatus even more and even I think that's a ridiculously punitive approach. Bar him from running for office, sure. But to take away the guy's pension when he did a job for years, despite spending too much during the election, that's just nonsense. OK, give him 2 years. 2006-2008. IF someone is not made an example, what can happen to them, especially an MP, then what does that say for the rest of the country? Go ahead and cheat but you'll still come out ahead in the future? No, way he's an adult, and NOT a good example for the young people , IF, he's found guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normanchateau Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 He could spend a few years in jail. Alternatively, when the dust settles and the Conservative supporter-controlled media move on to focus on yet another Justin Trudeau "gaffe", Stephen Harper could quietly appoint Del Mastro to the Senate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 OK, give him 2 years. 2006-2008. IF someone is not made an example, what can happen to them, especially an MP, then what does that say for the rest of the country? Go ahead and cheat but you'll still come out ahead in the future? No, way he's an adult, and NOT a good example for the young people , IF, he's found guilty. Yup. People want to hold these people accountable for their actions, but then don't want to hold them responsible for their actions. In the private sector, you'd get the boot instantly for this kind of crap. We should not tolerate it in our government. Considering this was election campaign fraud, which could affect the election in general. The more we hold their feet to the fire, the better we will be and the more we can start trusting the government again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 You would get the boot. They wouldn't take your pension away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 You would get the boot. They wouldn't take your pension away.Even if Del Mastro cheated to qualify for a pension ?an MP qualifies for the pension plan after serving six years in office. http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/05/many-mps-set-to-receive-lucrative-pensions-topping-100000-a-year-for-life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 (edited) Even if Del Mastro cheated to qualify for a pension ?an MP qualifies for the pension plan after serving six years in office.http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/05/many-mps-set-to-receive-lucrative-pensions-topping-100000-a-year-for-lifeHe should receive no further punishment than if he lied on his CV. Other than what punishment Elections Canada imposes.I know it's the sweetheart-est of deals but its still a compensation investment. The worst I could think is to impose a fine for every year he served as a cheat. Edited September 29, 2013 by Bob Macadoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 Convicted of what? Spending too much money on his election campaign? You want to strip him of nearly 10 years of pension for that? Your suggestion is ridiculous. I can't stand Dean Del Mastro and dislike the entire conservative apparatus even more and even I think that's a ridiculously punitive approach. Bar him from running for office, sure. But to take away the guy's pension when he did a job for years, despite spending too much during the election, that's just nonsense. If his cheating did not change the outcome of the election kick him out and ban him from election. If it did change the outcome then take away his pension, he would not be entitled to a pension had he played by the rules, so he should not be entitled to a pension when he breaks those rules. Any financial benefit should be returned promptly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 It's impossible to determine that, Signals. He spent too much money on his campaign, but he was still democratically elected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 It's impossible to determine that, Signals. He spent too much money on his campaign, but he was still democratically elected. IF it was a close election an assumption could be made that he did in fact win the election illegally thus he loses any claim to a pension. On the other hand if we want a real message to be send to the country as a whole, we take his pension because he tried to cheat the Democratic process and give him a significant fine to serve as a deterrent for anyone contemplating the same or similar acts in the future. As for his seat, he should be kicked out immediately and we should go about running an election so as to have a real representative in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouver King Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 This latest Conservative miscreant now thrown under the bus should best be remembered as yet another Tory cheat that Stephen Harper publicly extolled as virtuous - even speaking for the PM in the Commons. Pension or no pension, the takeaway in this affair is Harper's utter lack of judgement in appointments and ethics. The stench of this gov't is unbearable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienB Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) Ok 17000 dollars on ads does not directly relate to how many votes. There are a lot of factors, however 17000 dollars can buy a lot of lawn signs, or ads in newspapers. Look at the price of one ad in a newspaper. How much does one campaign worker rallying troops bring in... how many for $17000. Look how much it cost to set up a website, or drive around a neighbourhood Having twice as much may not yeild twice as many votes, it may yield more than twice as many, the important point is that he is accused of willfully forging elections expense records to cover up a fraud. The outcome is secondary to the criminal mind.. this is a criminal act, forging government records for the purpose of getting money, and other benefits? Its not just election fraud, it is also fraud. It is clearly a criminal fraud in addition to an election fraud, this isn't just some check being paid by an employee of a company that his brother owned, this is altering elections records to be eligible for a position that he may not have been so as to get pay, access to privilege and other benefits. Putting frauds into government is a problem, encouraging them is worse. You'd have a solid recruitment point for MPs in old Kingston Pen if you worked with that kind of logic. Edited September 30, 2013 by AlienB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normanchateau Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 This latest Conservative miscreant now thrown under the bus should best be remembered as yet another Tory cheat that Stephen Harper publicly extolled as virtuous - even speaking for the PM in the Commons. Pension or no pension, the takeaway in this affair is Harper's utter lack of judgement in appointments and ethics. The stench of this gov't is unbearable. The mainstream media supported Stephen Harper in 2011. None supported Ignatieff. They'll support Harper again in 2015. Conservative miscreants will be long forgotten and successful attack ads on Trudeau will allow the reprehensible Harper to be re-elected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 The mainstream media supported Stephen Harper in 2011. None supported Ignatieff. They'll support Harper again in 2015. Conservative miscreants will be long forgotten and successful attack ads on Trudeau will allow the reprehensible Harper to be re-elected. Or not. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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