Argus Posted September 21, 2013 Author Report Posted September 21, 2013 "Hurtful" and "offensive" are entirely subjective. You cannot tell someone what to find offensive and I cannot control people's feelings with my words. I can intend to hurt, but whether or not I'm successful depends upon the reaction of the listener, who has a choice in how to react. “He who takes offense when offense was not intended is a fool, yet he who takes offense when offense is intended is an even greater fool for he has succumbed to the will of his adversary.” Mark Twain Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 21, 2013 Author Report Posted September 21, 2013 The idea that it's only offensive if the person it's directed at lets it offend them is ludicrous. It blames the person who such "jokes" are directed at rather than the person who made the offensive joke. If the person who the joke is directed at is offended - then the joke's not funny. It's as simple as that. I turn on the tube and what do I see? A whole lotta people cryin, Dont blame me They point their crooked little fingers at everybody else Spend all their time feelin sorry for themselves Victim of this, victim of that Your mamas too thin and your daddys too fat Get over it! Get over it! All this whinin and cryin and pitchin a fit Get over it! Get over it! You say you havent been the same since you had your little crash But you might feel better if they gave you some cash The more I think about it old Billy was right Lets kill all the lawyers, kill em tonight You dont wanna work, you wanna live like a king But the big, bad world doesnt owe you a thing Get over it! Get over it! If you dont wanna play then you might as well split Get over it! Get over it! Its like goin' to confession every time I hear you speak Youre makin the most of your losin streak Some call it sick but I call it weak, yeah yeah yeah Yeah you drag it around like a ball and chain You wallow in the guilt, you wallow in the pain You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown Got your mind in the gutter, bringin everybody down You bitch about the present and blame it on the past Id like to find your inner child and kick its little ass! Get over it! Get over it! All this bitchin and moanin and pitchin a fit Get over it! Get over it! Get over it! Get over it! Its gotta stop sometime so why dont you quit? Get over it! Get over it! Get over it! Read more: The Eagles - Get Over It Lyrics | MetroLyrics Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest American Woman Posted September 21, 2013 Report Posted September 21, 2013 I have a suggestion. YOU get over it. Quote
BubberMiley Posted September 22, 2013 Report Posted September 22, 2013 Oooh. good one! Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Argus Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) I have a suggestion. YOU get over it. Get over what? I'm not the dainty, delicate one sobbing because people are using offensive language. Edited September 22, 2013 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest American Woman Posted September 22, 2013 Report Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) Get over what? I'm not the dainty, delicate one sobbing because people are using offensive language. You're the dainty, delicate one sobbing because people don't like it - and sometimes there's consequences for that. Edited September 22, 2013 by American Woman Quote
jacee Posted September 22, 2013 Report Posted September 22, 2013 You're the dainty, delicate one sobbing because people don't like it - and sometimes there's consequences for that. Well said.I think if the tweeters had stopped here, Id never let a woman kick my ass. If she tried something Id be like hey! you get your bitch ass back in the kitchen and make me some pie! they wouldn't have been fired. A pie in the face or a kick in the ass would suffice. I find that Argus and other "mildly sexist" posters are intentionally avoiding discussion of the real issue, which is the violent sexist comments that actually got them fired: would swat her in the back of the head been considered abuse or a way to reset the brain? the way to a womans heart is through anal. I wonder why the 'dainty, delicate sobbing' defenders of 'mild sexism' are avoiding defending these particular tweets? What about it boys? Lots of pages in this thread and not one of you has the cajones to address the real issue! Violent sexism ... that's why they got fired. Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted September 22, 2013 Report Posted September 22, 2013 I think to tie in another thread; would it be acceptable to substitute "woman" with "Christian" in the above statements? Quote
Guest American Woman Posted September 22, 2013 Report Posted September 22, 2013 would swat her in the back of the head been considered abuse or a way to reset the brain? the way to a womans heart is through anal. I[...] Violent sexism ... that's why they got fired. I think that's the bottom line. I doubt if the quotes from the Office, both from the same firefighter, would have been enough to get him fired. I think it was the "way to a woman's heart..." tweet that sealed his fate. The "would swat her in the back of the head...." tweet is the only tweet that I'm aware of from the other firefighter who got fired. The third firefighter was fired for comments on FB, and for some reason, those comments have been keep out of the media/public realm. Quote
Argus Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Posted September 22, 2013 You're the dainty, delicate one sobbing because people don't like it - and sometimes there's consequences for that. Are you seriously taking "I know you are, but what am I" as your new debating style? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Posted September 22, 2013 I find that Argus and other "mildly sexist" posters are intentionally avoiding discussion of the real issue, which is the violent sexist comments that actually got them fired: would swat her in the back of the head been considered abuse or a way to reset the brain? the way to a womans heart is through anal. I wonder why the 'dainty, delicate sobbing' defenders of 'mild sexism' are avoiding defending these particular tweets? What about it boys? What's violent about anal anyway? I once had a younger female colleague at work tell me she'd just experienced this particular type of sex for the first time and was greatly enamoured of it. No, I'm not making that up. As for the other, it was in response to someone tweeting about a girl who said 'like' about 300 times in a conversation. And was clearly joking. Describing it as violent is just silly. And again, it ignores the fact young men use this sort of language all the time, as in "I'm gonna kick your ass" or similar said to friends. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest American Woman Posted September 22, 2013 Report Posted September 22, 2013 Are you seriously taking "I know you are, but what am I" as your new debating style? Nope. I'm not saying that at all. I'm telling you to take your own advice. Sorry that wasn't clear enough for you. Quote
Argus Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Posted September 22, 2013 I think that's the bottom line. I doubt if the quotes from the Office, both from the same firefighter, would have been enough to get him fired. I think it was the "way to a woman's heart..." tweet that sealed his fate. The "would swat her in the back of the head...." tweet is the only tweet that I'm aware of from the other firefighter who got fired. The third firefighter was fired for comments on FB, and for some reason, those comments have been keep out of the media/public realm. I think the more important point is that these were tweets by individuals who were off duty. Why is private behavior in our off hours liable for punishment by our employers? If it turns out a woman is a slut should her employer be allowed to fire her, even if she behaves perfectly normally at work? What about a woman who dresses slutty? Or a woman who has multiple illiegetimate children? Should things like this coming to light give the employer the right to fire them? If a woman tweets a joke about kicking a guy in the balls, or puts it on facebook, should she be fired? What about if she mentions she bought a dress or a pair of shoes only to wear to a party and then return them? That's blatant dishonesty. Surely her employers should fire her if they find out. I mean, our employers have the right to monitor all our behaviour and our words in our private life and ensure it meets with their satisfaction, don't they? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Posted September 22, 2013 Nope. I'm not saying that at all. I'm telling you to take your own advice. Sorry that wasn't clear enough for you. Rarely is anything you say clear to anyone here. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Bob Macadoo Posted September 22, 2013 Report Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) I think the more important point is that these were tweets by individuals who were off duty. Why is private behavior in our off hours liable for punishment by our employers? If it turns out a woman is a slut should her employer be allowed to fire her, even if she behaves perfectly normally at work? What about a woman who dresses slutty? Or a woman who has multiple illiegetimate children? Should things like this coming to light give the employer the right to fire them? If a woman tweets a joke about kicking a guy in the balls, or puts it on facebook, should she be fired? What about if she mentions she bought a dress or a pair of shoes only to wear to a party and then return them? That's blatant dishonesty. Surely her employers should fire her if they find out. I mean, our employers have the right to monitor all our behaviour and our words in our private life and ensure it meets with their satisfaction, don't they?If in your private life you are promoting yourself through your employer then begin to display behaviour that is against a written approved policy by said employer you should certainly expect discipline. Whether its about kicking a guy in the testes, fraud, or unwanted anal intercourse.It just so happens this case was about termination, other employers have different disciplines, depends on their policies and union contracts. If the contract doesn't have clauses for pay demotion, etc. this may have been the only option. Edited September 22, 2013 by Bob Macadoo Quote
Guest American Woman Posted September 22, 2013 Report Posted September 22, 2013 I think the more important point is that these were tweets by individuals who were off duty. Why is private behavior in our off hours liable for punishment by our employers?I think that's been made clear. It's that they put it out in the public realm. It isn't something they did in "private" even though they did it in their private lives. Their twitter accounts were 'public,' not 'private.' One of the firefighters cancelled his account and the other has since set his to "private" - after the fact. Rarely is anything you say clear to anyone here.I know for a fact that there are several people here who you don't speak for; and, wisely IMO, wouldn't want you speaking for them - and quite frankly would likely be insulted by your claim. Quote
Argus Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Posted September 22, 2013 If in your private life you are promoting yourself through your employer then begin to display behaviour that is against a written approved policy by said employer you should certainly expect discipline. Whether its about kicking a guy in the testes, fraud, or unwanted anal intercourse. It just so happens this case was about termination, other employers have different disciplines, depends on their policies and union contracts. If the contract doesn't have clauses for pay demotion, etc. this may have been the only option. Why don't we try not to get ridiculous by bringing in criminal behaviour, hmm? Just to start with, most facebook pages do mention the employer of the individual involved. So you're okay with whatever goes on a person's facebook page being grounds to terminate them if their employer dissaproves of it? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Posted September 22, 2013 I think that's been made clear. It's that they put it out in the public realm. It isn't something they did in "private" even though they did it in their private lives. Their twitter accounts were 'public,' not 'private.' One of the firefighters cancelled his account and the other has since set his to "private" - after the fact. You're again missing the point, which is hardly surprising. Since when did employers have the right to fire us based on our behaviour outside of work? And since when did so many people willingly cede their freedom to their employers and grandly back up the employer in deciding what you can do or say on your own time? Again, you and most of the others here are almost entirely ignorant of what employer policies involve. Having read some of them I can promise you that virtually anything you do will be against one or another policy if the employer decides to interpret it so. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest American Woman Posted September 22, 2013 Report Posted September 22, 2013 You're again missing the point, which is hardly surprising. ..... It's you who is repeatedly missing the point. What one does in public most definitely can affect their jobs. The 'whys' have been clearly stated and discussed. Quote
BubberMiley Posted September 22, 2013 Report Posted September 22, 2013 I think that's been made clear. It's that they put it out in the public realm. It isn't something they did in "private" even though they did it in their private lives. Their twitter accounts were 'public,' not 'private.' One of the firefighters cancelled his account and the other has since set his to "private" - after the fact. I know for a fact that there are several people here who you don't speak for; and, wisely IMO, wouldn't want you speaking for them - and quite frankly would likely be insulted by your claim. That's not a fact. That's just your opinion. And it's absolutely incorrect. There are no such people. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Boges Posted September 22, 2013 Report Posted September 22, 2013 Why don't we try not to get ridiculous by bringing in criminal behaviour, hmm? Just to start with, most facebook pages do mention the employer of the individual involved. So you're okay with whatever goes on a person's facebook page being grounds to terminate them if their employer dissaproves of it? Most people also have to good sense to make their Facebook page private and only allow a pre-approved list of people to see their posts and photos. Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted September 22, 2013 Report Posted September 22, 2013 Why don't we try not to get ridiculous by bringing in criminal behaviour, hmm? Just to start with, most facebook pages do mention the employer of the individual involved. So you're okay with whatever goes on a person's facebook page being grounds to terminate them if their employer dissaproves of it? It is you who became ridiculous; none of what you stated above was forwarded by me. I gave you a reasoned response you chose to ignore it. Quote
jacee Posted September 23, 2013 Report Posted September 23, 2013 I think the more important point is that these were tweets by individuals who were off duty. Why is private behavior in our off hours liable for punishment by our employers? It wasn't private. Quote
Bryan Posted September 23, 2013 Report Posted September 23, 2013 Anyone who claims to have been offended by these guys quoting lines from a sit-com to each other is just an asshole. If you weren't in on the joke, then the post obviously wasn't meant for you, ignore it and move on. Quote
Black Dog Posted September 23, 2013 Report Posted September 23, 2013 I think the more important point is that these were tweets by individuals who were off duty. Why is private behavior in our off hours liable for punishment by our employers? If it turns out a woman is a slut should her employer be allowed to fire her, even if she behaves perfectly normally at work? What about a woman who dresses slutty? Or a woman who has multiple illiegetimate children? Should things like this coming to light give the employer the right to fire them? If a woman tweets a joke about kicking a guy in the balls, or puts it on facebook, should she be fired? What about if she mentions she bought a dress or a pair of shoes only to wear to a party and then return them? That's blatant dishonesty. Surely her employers should fire her if they find out. I mean, our employers have the right to monitor all our behaviour and our words in our private life and ensure it meets with their satisfaction, don't they? C'mon, man. You know the boundary. Earlier you said: Now if you go on TV and start pretending to represent your department, or speaking while on duty, that's different. Again, there's little difference between dressing up in uniform and identifying yourself as a member of the Toronto Fire Services and saying dumb stuff on TV and posting a profile with a picture of yourself in uniform and identifying yourself as a member of the Toronto Fire Services and saying dumb stuff on Twitter. Sounds pretty clear: if you want to say/post/tweet dumb crap, be sure it can't be tied to your employer. That aspect of male culture has been the same for generations. When you say that male culture is 'broken' I assume what you mean is it hasn't been completely feminized yet, and stripped of every aspect of normal male thinking and behabiour, despite the best efforts of some. Ad hoc fallacy. Quote
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