TTC Police Shooting

[Guest American Woman]

The coroner most likely.

Nope. The coroner is not saying.

[Guest American Woman]

Confidential source.

Right. So as I said, who is to know if it's true or not?

But looky here the Star reports the exact same thing.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/08/22/sammy_yatim_shot_eight_times.html

Since both the Star and Sun have reported the same thing we can pretty much rule out some sort of political bias to make stuff up to make Forcillo look bad.

Neither one names a source; everything that's reported isn't true. I'm skeptical of where this information came from since the coroner isn't releasing it and neither is the SIU. Note that Yatim's family didn't even receive that information.

[GostHacked]

Nope. The coroner is not saying.

The coroner is not saying to the public, but the coroner is saying to the family. So someone found out or the coroner's lips are not that tight. The coroner would be the one to make the report based on the autopsy.

But we don't even need that, the crime scene would show only one bullet hole somewhere on the streetcar. So by simple deduction, the rest where in Yatim.

[GostHacked]

Right. So as I said, who is to know if it's true or not?

Neither one names a source; everything that's reported isn't true. I'm skeptical of where this information came from since the coroner isn't releasing it and neither is the SIU. Note that Yatim's family didn't even receive that information.

How many times do you see 'anon government official' or 'anon sources' ? And how many times is that taken at face value.

[Guest American Woman]

The coroner is not saying to the public, but the coroner is saying to the family. So someone found out or the coroner's lips are not that tight. The coroner would be the one to make the report based on the autopsy.

But we don't even need that, the crime scene would show only one bullet hole somewhere on the streetcar. So by simple deduction, the rest where in Yatim.

As I just said in my previous post, Yatim's family didn't receive that information - according to one of the articles cited. One of the articles also says that they don't know if the stray bullet hit the streetcar or not, so there is no "simple deduction" involved.

[Guest American Woman]

How many times do you see 'anon government official' or 'anon sources' ? And how many times is that taken at face value.

Just because something is taken at face value doesn't mean it's true. Do you automatically believe everything that's reported in one or two media sources, much less by an unknown source? Edited August 22, 2013 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

From that article Boges quoted and this is interesting.

Yatim was killed in a confrontation with police, shot and then Tasered as he held a small knife. He later died in hospital.

He did not die on the scene?

[Boges]

Right. So as I said, who is to know if it's true or not? Neither one names a source; everything that's reported isn't true. I'm skeptical of where this information came from since the coroner isn't releasing it and neither is the SIU. Note that Yatim's family didn't even receive that information.

Sure, no one is coming out on record with this. It's not irrefutable evidence that the cop is guilty. But Joe Warmington isn't trying this case before a court, he's just doing investigative reporting.

The question is, if this story is true, how can this officer be found not guilty?

[Guest American Woman]

From that article Boges quoted and this is interesting.

He did not die on the scene?

No, he did not, as I've pointed out several times.

[GostHacked]

As I just said in my previous post, Yatim's family didn't receive that information - according to one of the articles cited. One of the articles also says that they don't know if the stray bullet hit the streetcar or not, so there is no "simple deduction" involved.

You are firing INTO a streetcar. Simple deduction.

[Guest American Woman]

Sure, no one is coming out on record with this. It's not irrefutable evidence that the cop is guilty. But Joe Warmington isn't trying this case before a court, he's just doing investigative reporting.

The question is, if this story is true, how can this officer be found not guilty?

From all I've read, cops who deem it's necessary to use their weapon generally fire multiple shots. From what I've read, it seems as if the number of shots isn't all that damning.

And again, "investigative reporting" isn't always 100% accurate.

Edited August 22, 2013 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

You are firing INTO a streetcar. Simple deduction.

Yet there haven't been any reports of bullets in the streetcar, so no one can deduct anything. Capice?

[Wilber]

I'm thinkin the Stars credibility when it comes to sources it can't reveal is somewhat suspect these days.

[Boges]

From all I've read, cops who deem it's necessary to use their weapon generally fire multiple shots. From what I've read, it seems as if the number of shots isn't all that damning.

You'll have to cite some of that.

If you hit someone 8 times, he must have gone down at some point. Why continue firing? It sounds like something you'd do if you were overcome with rage.

[Boges]

I'm thinkin the Stars credibility when it comes to sources it can't reveal is somewhat suspect these days.

That's why we have the Sun doing the same thing. There's no political bias here. Clearly sources are saying similar stuff.

Could be a conspiracy but, it's not up to use to decide that.

No one has come out to refute these claims as of yet.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Boges

[Guest American Woman]

You'll have to cite some of that.

If you hit someone 8 times, he must have gone down at some point. Why continue firing? It sounds like something you'd do if you were overcome with rage.

Why did a sergeant taser Yatim after the shots were all fired? Was that cop filled with rage, too? Yet he hasn't been charged with anything.

I've cited articles confirming what I've said throughout this thread.

[Boges]

Why did a sergeant taser Yatim after the shots were all fired? Was that cop filled with rage, too? Yet he hasn't been charged with anything.I've cited articles confirming what I've said throughout this thread.

I could follow up that question with asking. If the other cop was in position to Taze Yatim, why were shots fired?

[g_bambino]

If you hit someone 8 times, he must have gone down at some point. Why continue firing? It sounds like something you'd do if you were overcome with rage.

Or, the shooter may not be aware of how many times he has hit the target, but he can see the target is still holding a weapon and moving?

[Guest American Woman]

That's why we have the Sun doing the same thing. There's no political bias here. Clearly sources are saying similar stuff.

Could be a conspiracy but, it's not up to use to decide that.

No one has come out to refute these claims as of yet.

Who said anything about a "conspiracy?" It could simply be inaccurate information; media sources jumping the gun. It certainly wouldn't be the first time. I personally see nothing in the articles to give me the confidence to believe without a doubt that the claim is definitely accurate.

[g_bambino]

If the other cop was in position to Taze Yatim, why were shots fired?

The "other cop" was on the streetcar, after the shots had been fired.

[Guest American Woman]

I could follow up that question with asking. If the other cop was in position to Taze Yatim, why were shots fired?

Certainly you realize that Yatim was in a 'different position' to be tazed after he was shot multiple times, right? When the officer started shooting, Yatim was standing, walking, moving about with a knife. If the shots took him down, he was lying on the floor of the streetcar when tazed.

[GostHacked]

Yet there haven't been any reports of bullets in the streetcar, so no one can deduct anything. Capice?

Cop was outside streetcar, Yatim was INSIDE the streetcar. Capice?

[Guest American Woman]

Cop was outside streetcar, Yatim was INSIDE the streetcar. Capice?

Yet there haven't been any reports of how many bullets/bullet holes were found in the streetcar, so the deduction of how many hit Yatim cannot be made by that means.

[Boges]

Certainly you realize that Yatim was in a 'different position' to be tazed after he was shot multiple times, right? When the officer started shooting, Yatim was standing, walking, moving about with a knife. If the shots took him down, he was lying on the floor of the streetcar when tazed.

So then tazing him was completely redundant and had no baring on Forcillo's decision to start shooting earlier.

I don't know why the other officer hasn't been charged, perhaps because he wasn't the one that killed Yatim.

[Boges]

Yet there haven't been any reports of how many bullets/bullet holes were found in the streetcar, so the deduction of how many hit Yatim cannot be made by that means.

You couldn't do that anyway because some might have gone through him. I'm unaware of Toronto police use Hollow points. If they duo that would also indicate 9 shots was overkill.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Boges