A special healthcare deal for Quebec?

[JWayne625]

Here we go again, a special deal for Quebec! Why does our Federal Government need to sign a special deal with the Province of Quebec for healthcare or any other federal initiative? No wonder Quebec keeps talking about separation, when our own federal government encourages the "We're special attitude," with special deals' just for them, while the rest of us just get lumped together, as if only this one area of the country counts.

I read the other day in the news where Quebec has said that any money received from Ottawa for healthcare may in fact be spent on things other than healthcare, thing's such as highway construction. The question begs to be asked, how can Ottawa demand accountability from the rest of the Provinces and Territories when Quebec is allowed to just do their own thing on many fronts with federal dollars, including Bill 101? Are they part of Canada or are they not? If they are in fact part of Canada then there should have been only one deal for ALL of Canada, no exceptions.

Ottawa wonder's why areas of this country feel alienated by Ottawa. They still seem to have not gotten the fact that Canada does not have it's boundaries defined by the Quebec/New Brunswick, and Ontario/Manitoba borders! I have to think that it will take Alberta pulling the financial plug and voting to separate before Ottawa wakes up to that fact.

[takeanumber]

Asymetrical federalism.

It should apply to Alberta too.

The equalization deal that is forthcomming should be pretty fun to watch too.

[Slavik44]

Asymetrical federalism.

It should apply to Alberta too.

The equalization deal that is forthcomming should be pretty fun to watch too.

actually maybe it should apply to all or none not just one or two.

[maplesyrup]

Quebec is unique - get used to it!

Really what's the big deal. All Quebeckers want is to protect their French language and culture. Let's be open-hearted and give them as much support as possible so we can continue to be one big happy Canadian family.

I mean think about it - what makes us different than the US?

Canada is a social democracy, has universal health care, and two official languages. Plus Canadians would dominate in hockey, if only there was hockey to participate in.

[playfullfellow]

Really what's the big deal. All Quebeckers want is to protect their French language and culture. Let's be open-hearted and give them as much support as possible so we can continue to be one big happy Canadian family.

The big deal is that I have to pay for it one way or another. Why should one province be allowed to do whatever they want just because they are unique? It is not about preserving their language and culture, it is more about thumbing their noses at the ROC and going neener neener. I would much rather my money be spent on my own province for actual healthcare than in Quebec to upgrade their highways and protect their language. Whats sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander as far as I am concerned, why shouldn't every province have the same rights? In this family, Quebec can be viewed as the loud cousin who does whatever he wants but expects the family to pay for it and to bail him out when he runs out of money.

[Argus]

Quebec is unique - get used to it!

Really what's the big deal. All Quebeckers want is to protect their French language and culture. Let's be open-hearted and give them as much support as possible so we can continue to be one big happy Canadian family. 

Maplesyrup is one of those who are desperately in love with the Canada Health act, especially the provisions which ban private medical care, yet a deal which exempts Quebec from having to meet the provisions of the Canada Health Act, which allows them to ignore the requirement for portability, which allows them to ignore the ban on private medical care draws a big smile of acceptance from him. Interesting. So which is it, Maple? Is the Canada Health Act unneccesary or do you hate Quebecers?

[Bakunin]

The special deal was the federal not jumping over quebec juridiction.

I agree and disagree with the deal, first, i think its stupid to call this a "special deal because quebec is special" because what is special about us is our culture and language not our healthcare, but on the other hand, healthcare is a provincial juridiction so the federal has no power on that except the power of money that they shouldn't have. the stupidity in the first place is the federal asking the province to decide how they make there budget.

But i guess its because other province were not enough combative against the federal idea of taking over province juridiction, i guess they could have the same deal if they fight for it.

Some here on this forum think the federal has to force province to use this money on healthcare, i disagree with that, first healthcare is really important and if the federal doesn't give the money, then its the province that compensate by cutting in other sector, well thats what our premier made... he cutted in all sector and gave more in healthcare without waiting any federal money, so if the federal give money, its normal to take it to help other sector that were cutted because of healthcare... the province had to run healthcare even before the deal so wheiter we where doing a deficit or we where cutting other sector.. Anyway its a provincial juridiction....

[ticker]

But i guess its because other province were not enough combative against the federal idea of taking over province juridiction, i guess they could have the same deal if they fight for it.

not quite it is more of a mp numbers game. alberta was the bad one when the feds needed a wipping boy over scary private medicare. but it is ok in quebec because the fiberals need to get back in the good books so they can get a majority next time.

quebec speaks the feds jump

alberta speaks....

and the response is be quiet and just and over some extra equalization to help buy votes in another province.

[August1991]

deal which exempts Quebec from having to meet the provisions of the Canada Health Act, which allows them to ignore the requirement for portability, which allows them to ignore the ban on private medical care draws a big smile of acceptance from him.

The "special deal" does none of those things.

Quebec got about 25% of the federal money on the table - in line with Quebec's population.

(My understanding is that Quebec will get about 10 billion of the 40 billion the feds are coughing up over the next 10 years. Since Canada spends collectively roughly $100 billion annually, the fed addition of $4 billion per year is about 4% of the total. I can understand why the provinces are happy. Santa Claus just came to town. Welcome to minority government... )

Quebec was exempted from the federal guidleines on waiting times (which are probably meaningless anyway).

I think this is mostly PR for Charest who can take a good message home. PM PM certainly needs help in Quebec from PLQ.

Anyone hear of Parizeau's intervention? The guy just won't shut up.

BTW, Trudeau is dead in his crypt and Chretien is now giving big buck speeches south of the border. The old Pearsonian gang is back. (I preferred the straight up Mulroney/Bourassa approach.)

[JWayne625]

The only thing unique about Quebec is that they are a bunch of whiners. I'm just wondering if we should also supply the cheese to go with it. God help them when Canada wakes up and stops choosing leaders from that Province. Maybe we a should have a PM from Alberta for a change.

[JWayne625]

Bakunin: I disagree with you, because the Canada Health Act is not Provincial legislation, it is a federal act that was supposed to ensure the same level of healthcare right across Canada. The situation we now have is no accountability, and a different program in each Province and Territory. Medicare was supposed to ensure portability regardless of where one find's themself in Canada. You cannot have a different program in each jurisdiction otherwise we will have what we now have, people falling through the cracks.

I think the first mistake was allowing each Province to do their own thing. Don't tell me that each Premier knows what is best for his particular Province of Territory, because politicians are not medical professionals consequently we wind up with decision's being made based on what some lawyer or accountant feels is expedient, not what is necessarily best for patients. In my privince for instance our previous Premier passed legislation which bans doctors' or other medical professionals from sitting on the Board's of our Regional Health Authority, and this Premier thought it such a good idea not to have to listen to healthcare professionals when it came to making decisions that he just kept that process in place.

[Bakunin]

Bakunin: I disagree with you, because the Canada Health Act is not Provincial legislation, it is a federal act that was supposed to ensure the same level of healthcare right across Canada. The situation we now have is no accountability, and a different program in each Province and Territory. Medicare was supposed to ensure portability regardless of where one find's themself in Canada. You cannot have a different program in each jurisdiction otherwise we will have what we now have, people falling through the cracks.

Some province have less money, some have less needs in some way, if we want a federal healthcare then its a major system change and a common vision of each province but for now, the federal does not own any hospital they dont own the hospital and don't administrate it, The hospital are administrated by the province and the majority of the money come from the province not the federal so we can't force people.

I don't like the idea of the same system coast to coast, i don't like the system currently in place too. Often it look like 1 system make us save money but don't agree, in canada making 1 system for all often mean 1 costly complex system that doesn't work well. If the health care doesn't work anymore its because the system cost too much than we can afford. I think we badly need flexibility, we can't have back the healthcare system we had 10-20 year ago because we need to stop having deficit like we had 10-20 years ago... We just need to be more flexible and open be more open minded to the possible solution we have for the futurs, the federal act irresponsibly if he want to force the province to stay with the current system wich they can't afford without having deficit.

I think the first mistake was allowing each Province to do their own thing. Don't tell me that each Premier knows what is best for his particular Province of Territory, because politicians are not medical professionals consequently we wind up with decision's being made based on what some lawyer or accountant feels is expedient, not what is necessarily best for patients. In my privince for instance our previous Premier passed legislation which bans doctors' or other medical professionals from sitting on the Board's of our Regional Health Authority, and this Premier thought it such a good idea not to have to listen to healthcare professionals when it came to making decisions that he just kept that process in place.

I agree with you if you have incompetent politician in your province then its not a good idea but in quebec the best politician are in the provincial scene, our provincial government are competent and we don'T want the federal one wich is less competent to dictate us what to do. Even the federalist in quebec like charest don't want a federal dictature.

[August1991]

I'm with Chantal Hebert on this one:

Far from resuscitating the formula that recognizes Quebec as fundamentally different from the other provinces, the deal signed in Ottawa signals a Liberal shift to the approach defended by the Canadian conservative movement.

Toronto Star

I know that the Inkless Well thinks otherwise:

20 Sep 2004: But it is both the farthest thing from an innovation in federal-provincial relations, and the farthest thing from a danger to national unity. It was a thoroughly mediocre week's work. That's all.

However, I think Dion's reaction is notable:

Stephane Dion, the federal environment minister from Quebec who has often led the federalist cause in constitutional battles, said the deal puts common practice on paper.

"We gave an explicit legitimacy to a practice that was not always admitted in words," Dion said. "It will ease relations between the government of Canada and provinces, notably Quebec."

Dion doubted there will be any political backlash in the rest of Canada.

"The backlash would have occurred if it (this kind of deal) was only for Quebec and not the other provinces," he said. "That's not the case at all. We're saying it's for all provinces according to their specificities."

CTV News

I've seen nothing public from Jean Lapierre about this accord but it's got his paw prints all over it.

Check out Harper's comment:

In Ottawa, Conservative Leader Stephen Harper said the accord is one he could have signed.

"I have always defended the right of Quebec and others to have primary control in their areas of jurisdiction, that's what federalism is all about," Harper said.

This health accord may be a tentative first step into a new type of Canada. And we may well be facing more minority governments.

[maplesyrup]

The best thing that could happen to Canada is to have minority governements for the next 100 years.

When was the last time any party received more than 50% of the vote?

Are you all tired of this democratic ripoff, or this sham of a democracy called Canada?

[Guest eureka]

Paul Wells is a damned fool. This accord is Meech by the back door and Martin has shown himself to be no better than Harper in his search for short term votes at the expense of the further downgrading of the Canadian Government.

Tell me what jurisdiction of any significance that the federal government has now. This deal weakens even more the control of healthcare. We are heading for the end of Canada as a viable nation sacrificed to short term political interests. When Wells talks of the puzzlement of other federations, the puzzlement would be for the opposite reason that he assumes. No other federation in the world is so weak. Did anyone notice an international conference of government education ministers not long ago? Canada could not be there because we don't have an education ministry - alone in the world.

Quebec is only the most obvious manifestation of weakness. There, it can flout all civilized norms with its language legislation and we can do nothing about it.

[Bakunin]

eureka, thats why we need a confederation. Because a federation will never work.Wheiter its imposed and quebec separate or wheither its a symbolic federalism that doesn't mean anything. Quebec vote bloc, ontario vote liberal, the west vote conservative. Why shouldn't we be allowed to get our respective government ? A federal government is useless, lets let the province deal with each other's as equal entity and trust me evry province will be happy.

[JWayne625]

I think that more than anything Martin and the Liberals cow-tow to Quebec because without Quebec many of these power brokers would not be sitting in Canada's House of Commons. Who goes whining for money more than Quebec, for their share and everyone else's? They are the spoiled brat who threatens to take his ball and go home if they don't get what they want. Pity help them when we wind up with non-Quebecoise power brokers, because they may well find themselves with little sympathy or control in Ottawa.

Quebec should be treated exactly the same, and be forced to live by the same rules and regulations, and laws, as the rest of us Canadians. The only thing special about Quebec is that they have become used to doing as they please, and rules that apply to the ROC do not apply inside their borders. IE: Bill 101. This Bill makes travelling in Quebec unpleasant at best, especially for one that does not speak French, and has no desire nor inclination, to learn the language. The ability to speak French is not necessary anywhere else in Canada, including New Brunswick.

[playfullfellow]

Quebec is definately a unique culture which is fine. I do believe that if we work together for a common goal, to enrich Canada, we can do so. Unfortunately, Quebec has become used to doing things their own way so they have enacted special rules and laws to protect their culture. In the end, these rules and laws have made big business and corporations look elsewhere to set up shop. These jobs inheritantly go with them thus there is not much in the way of job creation. Quebec has to rely on the ROC for transfer payments and money to keep their infrastructure running. If they do not get this money, then they threaten to separate, hence blackmail. In all reality, Quebec has to sit back and figure out if they are going to continue to be a welfare case or whether they are going to develope industry friendly rules to attract new jobs to the province so they can become more independant but yet be a vital part of Canada.