TheNewTeddy Posted February 1, 2013 Report Posted February 1, 2013 http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2013/02/01/technology-columbia-shuttle-damage.html A moral and ethical question based on this story, and, this statement: "If it has been damaged, it's probably better not to know. I think the crew would rather not know. Don't you think it would be better for them to have a happy successful flight and die unexpectedly during entry than to stay on orbit, knowing that there was nothing to be done until the air ran out." If you knew, would you tell? not tell? why? If you were the one to know, would you want to know? not want to know? why? The first, I'm not sure. It'd really depend on the persons and the situation, but, I think I'd lean towards telling them. The second, I would not want to know. Someone calling you and saying "oh, BTW you are trapped and are going to die either frozen in space or in flames in the atmosphere" is not exactly what I'd call a nice surprise. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 Moot issue, as they were prepared to die the minute they volunteered for manned space flight. Space Shuttle (STS) missions were calculated to experience one fatal hull loss every 25 launches/re-entries. The occupation was/is inherently dangerous. So you may as well tell them what they already know. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 They mulled that over with John Glenn's retro pack and never candy coated it since. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 If there was absolutely nothing I could do about it, then I wouldn't want to know. But I'm not religious. A religious person might appreciate the time to make peace with their God. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) If there was absolutely nothing I could do about it, then I wouldn't want to know. But I'm not religious. A religious person might appreciate the time to make peace with their God. Either way...since 1962 or so, NASA has not pulled punches with its crews. This was the whole idea behind having a CAPCOM. Generally a fellow astronaut who has done a similar mission if possible. Edited February 2, 2013 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Signals.Cpl Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 If there was absolutely nothing I could do about it, then I wouldn't want to know. You are dying either way, one way you wait for death in space the other you go for a quicker death with a slim chance of survival... due to pure luck... or may e good construction. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Guest Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 Either way...since 1962 or so, NASA has not pulled punches with its crews. This was the whole idea behind having a CAPCOM. Generally a fellow astronaut who has done a similar mission if possible. Oh yes they have. I saw Apollo 13... What happened with John Glenn's retro pack? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 Oh yes they have. I saw Apollo 13... What happened with John Glenn's retro pack? The heat shield on his Mercury capsule was loose. Quote
Guest Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 The heat shield on his Mercury capsule was loose. Ah, thanks. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 Ah, thanks. Yes, the retro pack on the Mercury capsule was a separate unit and was strapped over the heat shield by cables w/ explosive bolts. After firing the retros, it was to be jettisoned. However, a warning light had come on at Mission Control claiming the heat shield...also jettisonable...was loose. So it was decided on the ground to keep the retro pack on for re-entry. Glenn...no dummy...immediately figured out something was wrong as this was not normal procedure, but MC kept trying to keep him in the dark. Angry, Glenn demanded to be told the truth...and he didn't freak-out...surprise, surprise. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 The crew already knew they were in trouble when they were inspecting the shuttle in orbit. They used the arm to check the tiles and found concerns. Could have 'easily' sent up a couple other capsules to possibly rescue the group and leave the shuttle in orbit with a plan for a fix. It's not an easy task, but still could have been accomplished. Could have attempted to dock at the space station and attempted some fix. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 This is where I usually make my pitch for the free online project I'm involved with... Orbiter Space Flight Simulator The crew already knew they were in trouble when they were inspecting the shuttle in orbit. They used the arm to check the tiles and found concerns. Could have 'easily' sent up a couple other capsules to possibly rescue the group and leave the shuttle in orbit with a plan for a fix. It's not an easy task, but still could have been accomplished. Could have attempted to dock at the space station and attempted some fix. I think that was a later flight, GH. On the Columbia launch, a large chunk of foam from the ET hit the wing but this wasn't noticed (via film) until many hours later. Risk assessment put the chance of major damage being low....wrong. An Air Force satellite was in a similar orbit, and could have taken some fair resolution pictures of the Columbia from several miles distant...but apparent "in-fighting" between the two...NASA and the USAF...prevented much cooperation from actually occurring. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) Could have attempted to dock at the space station and attempted some fix. Columbia didn't have an air-lock module on that mission. Different orbital planes, too. Edited February 2, 2013 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 I think that was a later flight, GH. On the Columbia launch, a large chunk of foam from the ET hit the wing but this wasn't noticed (via film) until many hours later. Risk assessment put the chance of major damage being low....wrong. An Air Force satellite was in a similar orbit, and could have taken some fair resolution pictures of the Columbia from several miles distant...but apparent "in-fighting" between the two...NASA and the USAF...prevented much cooperation from actually occurring. Yes indeed you are right. It was Endeavor that used the arm to inspect. I thought they had used it on Columbia as well. Would have proven valuable. Turns out Columbia was not even outfitted with the arm that time around. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 Yes...Columbia was the oldest of the Orbiters and didn't have the abilities of the later ones. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted February 19, 2013 Report Posted February 19, 2013 Flight 1...Young and Crippen. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Bonam Posted February 19, 2013 Report Posted February 19, 2013 Of course you should tell them. Maybe someone can do something. Maybe they can dock with the ISS and return using the emergency Soyuz return vehicle docked there, or wait for rescue. There are a lot of smart people with a lot of ingenuity working on these things, you don't just give up and let people die. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted February 19, 2013 Report Posted February 19, 2013 Do you recall seeing this classic from 1969? Marooned with Gene Hackman, Gregory Peck and others. Stranded in orbit...different rescue attempts. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
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