RW Authoritarians Rolling back Cannabis decriminalization in Canada

[eyeball]

If you want read and actual Scientific article instead of BS media on the subject this is the newest articles published on the subject

the title of the article is "Stronger evidence is needed before accepting that cannabis plays an important role in the aetiology of schizophrenia in the population". Apparently according the leading research the link is crap science which it clearly is.

http://f1000.com/prime/reports/m/5/2/

That's an excellent link on the subject.

...public health models suggest that cannabis use may need to be treated and prevented in many thousands of users in order to prevent one case of schizophrenia.

This would certainly dovetail nicely with the sorts of law and order models prohibitionists seem more than willing to prescribe to prevent whatever it is they've imagined prohibition has prevented to date. Imagine how much help there could be for people with or who develop schizophrenia if the billions of dollars prohibition costs went towards health care.

Edited February 2, 2013 by eyeball

[punked]

[/size]

Chicken, meet egg. Yeah nice theory

There are in fact quite a number of studies. You demanded links, and you have received them. I didn't even post the ones I saw which came from highly reputable medical journals. Meanwhile you've only provided hyperboal.

The studies take into account the baseline, vs another population of non drug abusers. They can see that the trend is higher on the dopers side.

Again all the studies say is people who get Schizophrenia have tried pot at a young age. Around 40% of Schizophrenics. The problem you have is 90% of Schizophrenics also smoke cigarettes at a young ago and 80% alcohol. Yet you don't use that as proof those two things cause Schizophrenia. So you logic is flawed big time unless you are against those two things because they case Schizophrenia. You want to find me a study that does not just correlate?

I get it though you are one of those dumb people that think the use for furnace oil causes car accidents.

[punked]

[/size]

Chicken, meet egg. Yeah nice theory

Its not my theory it is the theory of many scientist right now who keep asking why Schizophrenia cases are the same in countries with high rates of smoking pot and countries with low rates. Why might that be? Why if Pot causes Schizophrenia then did Schizophrenia cases not go up in California or other states who have seen a huge increase in pot use? Oh yah because it is shit science that keeps getting posted by people who can't reason.

[shortlived]

Pot is a plant, people should be able to grow plants.

Pot should be smokable in private residences where there are no minors or people who do not consent to second hand pot smoke.

I think though as a food product it should be 100% legal. Of course driving, operating firearms etc.. should be restricted.

It is one of few things that opens up more of the brain due to canaboid content.

It is also safer than buying pot from dealers who may lace their drugs enhancing the gateway concept.

Now as far as organized crime that runs Canada they don't want it legalized because it will cut in on their business, and so it won't be legalized not because pot is bad but because people make money off of it. and use it to get people to do serious drugs like cocaine that have some of the same habit like the crack pipe, opium etc...

If it grows in nature it should be legal to use but everything should be legal but dangerous drugs should be controlled. We should not leave dangerous drugs to non professionals we need to insure people are trained to safely administer drugs.

Pot grows really easy but you have to find a seeded plant in nature or otherwise to grow. The penalities are ridiculous though. Pot is pot. If people are only using it for their own use, multiple year jail terms are just stupid, any jail time is stupid. It is a mostly harmless plant. It is super culturally sensationalized... it is a plant that makes you think different, what is the deal? True though I don't recommend this being publically legal as of the smoke factor but for ingestion or private recretational property use among consenting adults...

it is just stupid to make this a crime to grow or use. It is only supporting the blackmarket.

As far as schizophrenia.. if people wernt' druged up and neglected chances are they'd be able to control their enhanced thought process.

Fact is it is how people understand their own thoughts. Afterall schizophrenia is just thoughts. The problem only occurs when people arn't able to compartmentatlize their thought process.

Are you braindead? Do you have no creativity, daydreaming or otherwise. The only difference is that you control your thoughts. Have you never thought? How do you right if you don't think about things?

The issue is basically just random firings of neurons.. there are reasons for that.. none the less,

there is no direct link between smoking pot thought.. ciagrettes have tons of industrial chemicals in there you think maybe that is more likely to cause neuron misfirings than a plant that makes the brain process naturally?

industrial produced cigarettes are way more toxic than pot. alchohol is way more toxic than pot.

What happens with schiophrenics is they either get locked away and neglected left to their own minds in institutions that are just plain abnormal environments, or they are drugged up so much their brain process is mutted and they are more or less poisoned. It is just refer madness nonsense to suggest pot smokers are schizophrenics.

Since probably 80-90% of Canadians have smoked pot, and a very small amount of Canadians are schizophrenics.. I think you are reversing these statistics.

Industrial chemicals have a greater chance of causing brain damage than pot. Saying pot is the problem is just uneducated.

Drug abuse is a problem but drug use is just like any other medicine. Why starve the body of things it is made for? canaboids are one of the things the brain is specifically designed for it has a use.. god made us to use it.

Its been used since like ancient times...

http://blog.norml.or...l-cannabinoids/

The pot culture is the problem not the plant. Causual use of pot, especially with safe non carcenogen processes is beneficial if not abused.

Like I could see, smoking pot in a public place as a charge, or driving under the influence of drugs which create dangerous driving conditions, or selling pot to minors without parental consent.. all fair game, but growing a plant that god made, and using something that our body is made for? It is like saying don't eat sugar or protein..

Why pay for synthetics at $70,000 and ounce when people can grow their own, if the taxpayer is stuck with those costs.

Edited February 2, 2013 by shortlived

[cybercoma]

Pot causes schizophrenia? Damn. Amsterdam must be like the Zombie Apocalypse of Schizos.

[shortlived]

Pot causes schizophrenia? Damn. Amsterdam must be like the Zombie Apocalypse of Schizos.

Drug use in the Netherlands is actually fairly low, they are quite conservative when it comes to drugs even though it has been somewhat legalized.

check out this from CBS.

http://www.cbsnews.c...62-4222322.html

Edited February 2, 2013 by shortlived

[cybercoma]

I'm sure there's a crapload of tourists catching schizophrenia there. Has to be.

[punked]

Pot causes schizophrenia? Damn. Amsterdam must be like the Zombie Apocalypse of Schizos.

Nope the rate of Schizophrenia is the same as Japan where no one smokes pot. Begs the questions doesn't? What actual evidence is their for this very poor theory that does not actually fit in with the facts? Very little actually just questionnaires of Schizophrenics which show about 40% of them smoked some amount of pot before 18. Seems like a crazy claim when you actually read the papers on the subject and think about it.

[punked]

Drug use in the Netherlands is actually fairly low, they are quite conservative when it comes to drugs even though it has been somewhat legalized.

check out this from CBS.

http://www.cbsnews.c...62-4222322.html

Why would the US who has a 40% use of pot and Japan whose use is 1.5% use it have the same rates of Schizophrenia? Oh because people in this thread keep posting BS.

Edited February 2, 2013 by punked

[cybercoma]

For the record, people smoke pot in Japan. Lots of people. They just hide it better from the authorities, who are in denial about it. I know for a fact because I know people that have lived in Japan and smoked pot with their friends, but said that they have to be more vigilant about hiding it than they are here.

[punked]

For the record, people smoke pot in Japan. Lots of people. They just hide it better from the authorities, who are in denial about it. I know for a fact because I know people that have lived in Japan and smoked pot with their friends, but said that they have to be more vigilant about hiding it than they are here.

There is no way it is as prevalent in Japan as in the US. Regardless it is terrible science to say Marijuana causes Schizophrenia when no scientist in the whole world is saying that. I will wait for a real link to a real science article where that is in the conclusion because no one is going to say they because it is shit science.

[cybercoma]

I would also like to see how this is operationalized in the studies. I want to see a scientific conclusion that pot has a causal link to schizophrenia. It's like saying living alone causes schizophrenia because schizophrenics are more likely to live alone. Or poverty causes schizophrenia because schizophrenics are more likely to be poor. Or unemployment causes schizophrenia because schizophrenics are more likely to be unemployed. Or being male causes schizophrenia because schizophrenics are more likely to be male. Or poor academic achievement causes schizophrenia because schizophrenics are more likely to do poor in school. People generally don't understand the important conceptual distinction between association and causation.

[punked]

I would also like to see how this is operationalized in the studies. I want to see a scientific conclusion that pot has a causal link to schizophrenia. It's like saying living alone causes schizophrenia because schizophrenics are more likely to live alone. Or poverty causes schizophrenia because schizophrenics are more likely to be poor. Or unemployment causes schizophrenia because schizophrenics are more likely to be unemployed. Or being male causes schizophrenia because schizophrenics are more likely to be male. Or poor academic achievement causes schizophrenia because schizophrenics are more likely to do poor in school. People generally don't understand the important conceptual distinction between association and causation.

I will just point out any study you find the highest number is around 0.5. It increases your risk factor by about 0.5. However according to UK institute of alcohol studies, heavy drinking increases your chance of getting schizophrenia by 3 times. So again alcohol increases your risk factor by much more but no one in this thread is saying we should make that illegal.

The science on this is bad and people quoting it should feel bad.

Edited February 2, 2013 by punked

[cybercoma]

These aren't causes, like you said though. They say it increases your "risk" but did they establish cause? Or is that the coefficient on a regression? I need to see an actual study that this comes from, so I can read the methodology. In short, I suspect you're right that this isn't causal. I mean, where does genetics play into it? There's myriad other well-established factors that lead to schizophrenia. Those probably have to be present too.

Edited February 2, 2013 by cybercoma

[punked]

These aren't causes, like you said though. They say it increases your "risk" but did they establish cause? Or is that the coefficient on a regression? I need to see an actual study that this comes from, so I can read the methodology. In short, I suspect you're right that this isn't causal. I mean, where does genetics play into it? There's myriad other well-established factors that lead to schizophrenia. Those probably have to be present too.

You wont get a scientific link out of anyone posting here just media sensationalism, from journalist who don't understand what an article or its conclusion says. Asking for actual facts is useless because Manny knows a friend of a friend who once smoked pot and HE DIED!!!

[cybercoma]

There's a 100% correlation between living and dying.

[punked]

There's a 100% correlation between living and dying.

"That must mean everyone is dead who is alive then."-People posting in this thread

[shortlived]

Why would the US who has a 40% use of pot and Japan whose use is 1.5% use it have the same rates of Schizophrenia? Oh because people in this thread keep posting BS.

Industrial chemicals, not pot.

What is the rate around Lake Athabasca?

What about these places

http://www.bibliotec...yweapons155.htm

then cross references with Psychiatrists per capita and the diagnosis rate.

If a doctor gets paid to be a doctor and relies on illness to make money they will find illness or perhaps even invent it. Read about the PIPS system. you will understand mental illness in Canada is largely fabricated and totalitarian and worship of a cult based on paranoid beleifs of ideal lifestyle as opposed to people "being sick" terminal or suffering. The Quacks just don't like how people live. Japan is a very conservative cult. (cult = culture more or less). It being a more totalitarian police state its rate will be higher provided there are enough psychiatrists around to diagnose people as mentally "ill". Being sad or too happy is ill to them. Not thinking what other people think is also ill to them. Not having the same hygeine practices is ill yet there isn't even clean water in some countries.. and historically people bathed like once a year? So all our ancestors were ill too right? Probably all your ancetors would be schizophrenic at some point in time.. because they have "Strange beleifs" and we can't think different can we? It is a totalitarian practice not founded at all on the concept of health they are witch hunters.

Now some people are ill but they are a minority. However forced confinement for beleiving in faries or not showering by choice is not medicine it is psychiatrists forcing their cult beleifs on others.

If all the people who beleive in aliens or had a contact experience are schizophrenic... it leaves a lot to be wondered.

THis can be applied to people who had angel experiences too...

just read on the PIPS system and you will see why it is just totalitarian police state BS the KGB was into and the CIA and other groups are still into .. most likely CSIS and the mental health establishment who are part of lobbies they just want to shove their rules down your throat and arn't going to stop at nothing to do it.

This refer madness nonsense about pot is the same sort of totalitarianism.

Edited February 2, 2013 by shortlived

[punked]

Industrial chemicals, not pot.

What is the rate around Lake Athabasca?

Fact is we don't know anything about what cases Schizophrenia and 60% of all Schizophrenics have never smoked pot ever. So their is way more to it then meets the eye.

[Rocky Road]

http://www.schizophr...=430268

Here is a thread of schizophrenics discussing the subject.

I work in Mental Health, I see it all the time.

Cannabis is a dangerous drug that leads to paranoia, delusions, and psychosis.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Rocky Road

[Rocky Road]

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/marijuana-abuse/there-link-between-marijuana-use-mental-illness

"Research in the past decade has focused on whether marijuana use actually causes other mental illnesses. The strongest evidence to date suggests a link between cannabis use and psychosis.⁹ For example, a series of large prospective studies that followed a group of people over time showed a relationship between marijuana use and later development of psychosis. Marijuana use also worsens the course of illness in patients with schizophrenia and can produce a brief psychotic reaction in some users that fades as the drug wears off. The amount of drug used, the age at first use, and genetic vulnerability can all influence this relationship."

[Rocky Road]

http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item1170232/?site_locale=en_GB

Cambridge!!!

[punked]

http://www.cambridge...te_locale=en_GB

Cambridge!!!

You need to stop posting the same studies over and over again and explain how causation and correlation are linked? Again alcohol is 6 times more detrimental to Schizophrenics in early age then pot yet you say nothing about that.

[cybercoma]

http://www.cambridge...te_locale=en_GB

Cambridge!!!

What does the book say? Because that's not actually a link to any of the studies. Nor does the description of the book say what you think it says, as it provides no conclusions whatsoever. In fact, the book's description supports what punked has said repeatedly throughout this thread:

Clinically focused chapters review ... the impact consumption has on the courses of evolving or established mental illness

It's very important to note that they're talking about the effects cannabis has on people that already has a mental illness in that description. The only other thing the description states is that they look at the psychotomimetic effects of cannabis. Everyone already knows that they have these effects, ie, some strains make people feel paranoid when they're high. In other words, what does pot do to a schizophrenic when we know it already causes paranoia. It exacerbates it obviously.

The important thing to note here is that none of this says that cannabis causes mental illness. So do you actually have any studies that claim that?

[Shady]

"The chief ingredient in marijuana is THC, a mild form of acid, prolonged usage of which can cause adverse effects to your sexual potency, short term memory loss, and can also severly damage your brain tissue, central nervous system, and basic motor skills. To put it simply mom and dad, theres a reason they call it dope." - Chris Griffin, Family Guy