Religion May Not Survive The Internet

[Mighty AC]

Sure, why not. I can go that low...

I'd suggest you reread your own posts then. You know what they say about those that live in glass houses? Something about not being rock throwing nudists..

[dre]

Exactly describes my position. It's impossible to know there is no God, just as it is impossible to know there is a God, but I'm betting my eternal damnation on it.

Thats true, we dont know that there isnt a god. We DO know however that human religions worship gods that dont exist. We know who wrote various holy books and why. Christianity for example was invented by Roman aristocrats long after christ was dead, and parts claiming that jesus was a diety came even later than that.

But yeah... just because human religions are products of the human predisposition to invent stories to control others and invent stories to explain the unexplained does not mean there is not a god.

[Guest]

Thats true, we dont know that there isnt a god. We DO know however that human religions worship gods that dont exist. We know who wrote various holy books and why. Christianity for example was invented by Roman aristocrats long after christ was dead, and parts claiming that jesus was a diety came even later than that.

But yeah... just because human religions are products of the human predisposition to invent stories to control others and invent stories to explain the unexplained does not mean there is not a god.

It could be Q.

Edited January 24, 2013 by bcsapper

[Bryan]

Agnostics are atheists.

No. Many people who have agnostic beliefs mistakenly call themselves atheists, but they are distinctly different. Agnosticism is the lack of belief, Atheism is the belief of lack.

Agnostics may not believe in any specific deity, but they also admit they don't know. They may even dabble in some alternative theologies to see what's out there. Atheism is the insistence of no higher power. It's a faith, a steadfast belief that there absolutely is not and cannot be a 'god' of any description.

in short, agnostic means "I don't know.", atheist means "NO!"

[Guest Manny]

I'd suggest you reread your own posts then. You know what they say about those that live in glass houses? Something about not being rock throwing nudists..

I may mis spell thingz. But tend to avoid using triple negatives. Thats not a typo. Especially, if one has already taken pains to edit it.

[Guest Manny]

Agnostics may not believe in any specific deity, but they also admit they don't know. They may even dabble in some alternative theologies to see what's out there. Atheism is the insistence of no higher power. It's a faith, a steadfast belief that there absolutely is not and cannot be a 'god' of any description.

There you go, chappy. Atheism is a belief. It has its own books, tenets, commandments, and even high priests.

[Mighty AC]

No. Many people who have agnostic beliefs mistakenly call themselves atheists, but they are distinctly different. Agnosticism is the lack of belief, Atheism is the belief of lack.

Agnostics may not believe in any specific deity, but they also admit they don't know. They may even dabble in some alternative theologies to see what's out there. Atheism is the insistence of no higher power. It's a faith, a steadfast belief that there absolutely is not and cannot be a 'god' of any description.

in short, agnostic means "I don't know.", atheist means "NO!"

That's a common misconception.

[Bonam]

That's a common misconception.

It's not a misconception, it's a deliberate propaganda put out against atheists by the religious to try to denigrate and discredit atheists.

[Michael Hardner]

I find it odd that the statement that there is ambiguity around the words 'atheist' and 'agnostic' is met with arguments that the meanings are clearly understood.

[guyser]

It's not a misconception, it's a deliberate propaganda put out against atheists by the religious to try to denigrate and discredit atheists.

Here here!

[Mighty AC]

It's not a misconception, it's a deliberate propaganda put out against atheists by the religious to try to denigrate and discredit atheists.

It is still a misconception that the term atheist is also a knowledge claim; but, you're right, religious organizations are deliberately spreading the false information.

[The_Squid]

Atheism means, in it's simplest definition, a lack of belief in supernatural beings. How is that a claim of knowing something?

[Canuckistani]

Atheism means, in it's simplest definition, a lack of belief in supernatural beings. How is that a claim of knowing something?

It's a belief that there are no supernatural beings. Otherwise it's agnosticism, not having belief either way, if belief is to mean certainty.

[Mighty AC]

Atheism means, in it's simplest definition, a lack of belief in supernatural beings. How is that a claim of knowing something?

It's not...but the religious want to reduce atheism to a faith. Edited January 24, 2013 by Mighty AC

[Mighty AC]

It's a belief that there are no supernatural beings. Otherwise it's agnosticism, not having belief either way, if belief is to mean certainty.

No...that's the misconception.

Theism/Atheism refers to belief. Theism is a belief in deities and atheism, as the 'a' prefix suggests, is just a lack of belief.

Gnostic/Agnostic refers to knowledge. Gnostics claim to either know a god exists or does not exist. Agnostics make no such claim.

So agnostics are atheists who do not claim to know a god does not exit.

[Canuckistani]

So what's your term for people who make the claim that God doesn't exist? As i say, in common usage, atheism is the term used here, while agnostics are the ones who are not certain either way.

[Guest Manny]

I've always understood it as an issue to do with certainty. Athiests are certain there is no god, whatever that means, while agnostics are simply not sure.

An athiest believes there is no god.

[Mighty AC]

Gnostics claim to know, Agnostics do not claim to know.

Theists believe, Atheists lack belief.

So their are 4 combinations, though the last one seems impossible to me.

Gnostic - Theists: Believe in a god. Know God exists.

Gnostic - Atheists: Lack a belief in god. Claim to know a god does not exist.

Agnostic - Atheists: Lack a belief in god. Do not make a claim about its existence.

Agnostic - Theists: Believe in a god, but not sure if one exists.

[Guest Manny]

Do not make a claim about its existence? Sorry but that doesn't quite cover it. There must be another category, which many here seem to belong to- Claim it DOES NOT EXIST. So who are these people?

"Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities."

A rejection of the belief, not a lack of belief. Big difference.

[The_Squid]

Most atheists simply claim that they do not believe in any gods. Ergo, to an atheist god, Zeus, Odin, etc do not exist. It's not a "belief".

Edited January 25, 2013 by The_Squid

[Mighty AC]

Do not make a claim about its existence? Sorry but that doesn't quite cover it. There must be another category, which many here seem to belong to- Claim it DOES NOT EXIST. So who are these people?

"Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities."

A rejection of the belief, not a lack of belief. Big difference.

A rejection of belief is a lack of belief. Claiming I do not believe is not the same as claiming there are no gods. "God does not exist" is a knowledge claim, hence a gnostic position. "I do not believe in God" is a statement of belief.

Although from time to time people will make gnostic like statements even though their true position is agnostic. People might say something like "there are no such thing as unicorns", even though they would admit that we cannot prove their lack of existence.

[GostHacked]

Here we go again!!

[The_Squid]

Here we go again!!

Yeah really! There are many types of atheists... Mostly an argument over sematics.

[GostHacked]

Yeah really! There are many types of atheists... Mostly an argument over sematics.

AC describes it very well for me. And well it really is fitting, but I was eluding more to the fact that we have many other threads on that type of subject and this one in the end will be no different, so here we go again!

[Guest Manny]

If AC finds comfort in believing lack of belief is not a belief, so be it. Good for him/ her.