Entitled No More

[Accountability Now]

I saw there is a group forming on Facebook which is intended to rival the Idle No More movement. I thought I would share it for discussion.

http://www.facebook.com/wheresthemoneygoing?ref=stream

[Sleipnir]

I saw there is a group forming on Facebook which is intended to rival the Idle No More movement. I thought I would share it for discussion.

VVV Got this article from their group...rather interesting to watch the videos of counter-protester.

http://www.sunnewsne...116-170014.html

Edited January 17, 2013 by Sleipnir

[CPCFTW]

Didn't know about that...thanks!

-joined it-

VVV Got this article from their group...rather interesting to watch the videos of counter-protester.

http://www.sunnewsne...116-170014.html

I posted a thread about the counter-protester and G&M's spin on it:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=22215

[Accountability Now]

I posted a thread about the counter-protester and G&M's spin on it:

http://www.mapleleaf...showtopic=22215

No...this is different. Its a Facebook link that is intened to unite the silent majority. The link is above....check it out.

[Guest Manny]

What about tax breaks for the rich? Or bailouts for things deemed too big to fail, and mandatory bonuses regardless of success or failure.

That's kinda like entitlement

[Accountability Now]

Sure throw that in the mix too. I guess the only difference is that we all have a chance to be rich but we don't all have a chance to get Native handouts. There people of all races are rich or get undeserved bonuses. Having said that I can see your point

[Accountability Now]

Come to think of it the one you are looking for is Occupy Wall Street

[Guest Manny]

I know, but while I agree native handouts are not the solution, they seem to get us more upset than our own white-mans handouts. I'm not sure how much our own handouts cost vs. the native handouts, but that's kinda the argument coming from the chief. She's saying its a drop in the bucket, and maybe it is. But she's also saying, don't look at us too close. (Cause we're doin the big rippoff, same as y'all dont ya know)

But I still blame the government, Native Affairs. Not just this government, all of them. They know about the corruption but have done nothing. I guess the treaties are kinda hard to ignore, and tie the governments hands so to speak. That and a lotta wampum. (ie graft)

Edited January 18, 2013 by Manny

[Accountability Now]

It's sort of "two wrongs don't make a right".

[Big Guy]

To be the true antithesis of the “Idle No More” movement the “Entitled No More” movement requires a figurehead on which to focus and coalesce.

Perhaps one of those chiefs who are giving themselves more than $300,000 a year occupy the penthouse room at the Chateau Laurier in Ottawa, and go on an eating strike. He would stuff himself 5 times daily with the most expensive and luxurious entrée that the 5 star restaurant in the hotel had to offer. He would threaten to continue until visited at the same time by PM Harper, the Queen of England, the President of the United States and the Pope. That should guarantee full media coverage and eventual acquiescence to his demands.

Perhaps not.

[Accountability Now]

I like it

[Accountability Now]

You should add that this person would have to be a mayor that showed fiscal responsibility and helped his/her people

Edited January 18, 2013 by Accountability Now

[WIP]

Since we got another bullshit indian-bashing thread here, it's time to ask what the fuck are you whiners entitled to? As I mentioned in another indian-bashing thread, anyone who with a brief knowledge of Canadian history, is aware that we signed treaties of different kinds with natives who were living here, because we either didn't have the force or didn't want to take the land by force. So, if treaties don't apply, can I just move into your house and tell you to move out, or give me stuff that I find of value? That's what your asking with your stupid carping about wanting to get tar sands, pipelines and other resource developments built, just because you think you can profit in some way from ramped up exploitation of dirty energy sources.

So, what is the value of the mining, logging and oil industries that have set up their operations on territories that previous Canadian and British governments signed with native tribes who were living on these lands?

What are treaty rights?

First Nations signed treaties with various British and Canadian governments before and after Confederation in 1867. No two treaties are identical, but they usually provide for certain rights, including reserve lands, annuities (a small sum of money paid each year), and hunting and fishing rights. Several treaties also have certain allowances for Chiefs and Councillors such as salary instead of annual payments, as well as a clothing allowance of a suit of clothing every three years. Treaty rights are collective rights that provide for payments to individual Treaty Indians. The payments depend on the precise terms and conditions of the treaty signed by her or his First Nation.

What are claims?

The federal government recognizes two broad classes of claims: comprehensive and specific claims. Comprehensive claims are based on the recognition that there are continuing Aboriginal rights to lands and natural resources. These kinds of claims arise in those parts of Canada where Aboriginal title has not been dealt with by treaty or other legal means. The claims are called “comprehensive” because of their wide scope. They include such things as land title, fishing and trapping rights, and financial compensation.

Specific claims arise when there is an outstanding historical grievance between a First Nation and the Crown that relates to an unfulfilled obligation of a treaty or another agreement, or a breach of statutory responsibilities by the Crown. Canada is committed to honouring its lawful obligations to First Nations. Canada’s Specific Claims Policy was established to allow First Nations to have their claims appropriately addressed through negotiations by the government without having to go to court. Claims are accepted when it is determined that Canada has breached its lawful obligation to a First Nation.

http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100016202/1100100016204

Well, that information on the website of the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development is over 10 years old, so who knows what the Government recognizes today! Especially with Harper Government plotting a course to revive the Trudeau plan from 1969 to erase all these treaties and obligations and turn native reserve communities into nothing more than municipalities, with no more authority over resources and the use of resources than municipal governments.

Up north, in Attawapiskat, the DeBeers diamond-mining operation extracted almost half a billion dollars worth of diamonds in 2010; and from their profits from sales, they gave 8 aboriginal communities (including Attawapiskat) a little more than five million dollars!

http://www.miningwatch.ca/article/diamonds-and-development-attawapiskat-and-victor-diamond-mine

And yet, thanks to corporate media and ignorance of Canadian history, this board is full of rednecks who think the Indians should just roll over and accept whatever is offered to them!

I'm really getting sick of this place! Maybe this time I'll quit for good!

[Accountability Now]

There goes WIP again....answering questions that no one asked him. To answer your question, we are entitled to NOTHING which is why the group is called Entitled No More. I didn't create the group just thought it was interesting.

I couldn't disagree with you more when you said that we were forced into the treaties. History knows that the natives felt it was either that or death. So now we are being criticized for negotiating versus simply wiping them out?

Since you are such an expert on treaties, please tell me what it says about not interfering or disputing the settlers.

WIP...I actually hope you leave because I'm getting dumber just listening to you

Edited January 18, 2013 by Accountability Now

[PIK]

We need a group called ''Guilty no more''

[g_bambino]

He would threaten to continue until visited... [by] the Queen of England..,

Why bring the corpse of Mary II into this?

[Accountability Now]

Guilty No More works too.

I've been thinking about the De Beers thing. I am making an assumption but I have to believe its correct....the amount of money to be transferred was a lump sum agreed at the start of the mining process. Yes? No? What if De Beers went in and lost money on the project? Would Attawapiskat have paid De Beers because apparently they are partners. I am quite certain that is not the case.

Again...this situation shows that some people want all the reward but no risk. Let me ask this....what is a diamond worth (moreover a diamond in the ground)? Its worth nothing!! Its worth nothing until someone spends millions of their dollars on building facilities and equipment to extract those diamonds and then set up businesses to sell the product. Once all those costs have been spent then the diamond is worth something. And that is when the reserves have their hands out. How many reserves invest their own money to develop these resources. And if they don't want the resources developed then why did they sign the deal with De Beers in the first place. Simple case of wanting their cake and eating it too (much like Theif Theresa's hunger strike)

According to an article I read, The Attawapiskat are to receive $30M over the ten year expcetancy of the project. No one actually knows how much it is because the terms of the deal do not allow those terms to be divulged. What is factual is that $51 million dollars has been paid by De Beers to local Attawapiskat contractors to help build the mine. Addiitonally the mine employs over 100 Attawapiskat people. No matter what it is (good or bad) the Attiwapiskat agreed to it.

This was a business deal. Not a goverment deal so if they aren't happy with the deals they make then they need to look in the mirror. Use their free education to train reserve people in law, business or marketing so that they can manage these opportunities. Look at other reserves like the Onion Lake band (who has their own oil company) and the Osoyoos band (who own golf course and wineries). They have invested in themselves with the opportunities and money given to them and good for them....they are successful.

Entitled No More or Guilty No More or whatever you want to call it is not an Indian bashing thing. It about changing the system so that Natives can actually help themselves because the current system is just not working. They have a sense of entitlment to this country even though EVERY treaty (and yes I have read them) clearly indicates that in exchange for compensation, they will surrender all lands and their rights to the lands except for their reserves. If they want to let business like De Beers come into their reserves then that is a business deal which they are responsible for and for which they take the risk. The compensation they have received from the government has been more than fair considering they signed a deal saying they would get $5 per person per year. If they want us to objectively honor the deals then we will.

I agree with WIP in that deals were made and that we need to honor the deals. However, just like De Beers, it will always be that the deal is never good enough. That is the entitlement that needs to stop.

[guyser]

.

I've been thinking about the De Beers thing. I am making an assumption but I have to believe its correct....the amount of money to be transferred was a lump sum agreed at the start of the mining process. Yes? No? What if De Beers went in and lost money on the project? Would Attawapiskat have paid De Beers because apparently they are partners. I am quite certain that is not the case.

Again...this situation shows that some people want all the reward but no risk. Let me ask this....what is a diamond worth (moreover a diamond in the ground)? Its worth nothing!! Its worth nothing until someone spends millions of their dollars on building facilities and equipment to extract those diamonds and then set up businesses to sell the product. Once all those costs have been spent then the diamond is worth something. And that is when the reserves have their hands out.

If it is their land then of course they have their hand out. All leaseholders...white Canuck ones too...have their hand out for payment of some of the contractual riches. They get a minor share in comparison precisely because they are not putting the funds in.

Economic sense

. Use their free education to train reserve people in law, business or marketing

What free education?

[Accountability Now]

If it is their land then of course they have their hand out. All leaseholders...white Canuck ones too...have their hand out for payment of some of the contractual riches. They get a minor share in comparison precisely because they are not putting the funds in.

Economic sense

What free education?

Not sure what your arguement here is or if you are agreeing with me. The white Canuck leaseholders have their hand out according to the business deal they make. And if they want more when they don't deserve it then the company or the courts tell them to go pound sand. Bottom line is that if the business deal says they are owed 'x' amount then that's what they should get paid.

The free university education that is given to Natives and some Metis. I won't lie and say that I know all of them get it but my one buddy is native and he had his university paid so and so did my cousin who is Metis. They could be the exception though.

Regardless...even if education is not paid for then invest in your people for long term gain. I didn't have my university paid for and I came from a low income family. Through student loans I made my way through and now I own a succesful business. Its all about investing in yourself.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Accountability Now

[Accountability Now]

The free university education that is given to Natives and some Metis. I won't lie and say that I know all of them get it but my one buddy is native and he had his university paid so and so did my cousin who is Metis. They could be the exception though.

Here is a quote from a CBC article that I found at http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/aboriginals/faqs.html

Do aboriginals get free post-secondary education?

Again, it depends. And again, Inuit and Métis are exempted from the free post-secondary education that some Status Indians receive.

This is how it works: Ottawa provides education money to Indian bands, which in turn decide whose education to finance.

"Not everyone is entitled to the money … There's a cap. The money has been frozen for 20 years or so," says Victoria De La Ronde, director of treaty policy with the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs.

Because there is only so much money for post-secondary education, she says some bands may decide to fund only those pursuing their first degree, or perhaps only those living on the reserve.

So based on this my cousin shouldn't have received free education but he did. Not sure if he's full of shit or found some loop hole. The reserves do get money for education but its capped so they have to decide who gets what. I trust the Cheifs famility gets first crack!

[scribblet]

Interesting page and not surprising that people are fighting back.