on chuck hagel becoming secretary of defense

[bud]

you would think someone with the following resume would receive the backing of republicans:

• experienced as a senator
  
• vietnam war veteran
  
• with two purple hearts
  
• and vietnamese gallantry cross
  
• a lifelong republican
  
• a successful businessman
  

but no.

why would they turn on this courageous patriot, for the secretary of defense of united states?

Edited December 28, 2012 by bud

[Merlin]

It's called supporting your side and being loyal to your side. Those not on your side is the enemy. Rep. sould rather the Dems didn't exist so they could rule forever unchallenged.

[Guest Derek L]

Ask the "Jewish Lobby"?

[bud]

that's just a way to slander him. several former ambassoder's to israel, rabbis and a "jewish lobby" have come out to support him.

i think this is mostly to do with the neo-cons who saw a republican go against their plans in iraq and his few votes against sanctions on iran. of course, a lot of those neo-cons are israeli-firsters.

[bud]

some people are calling obama's nomination of chuck hagel for secretary of defense 'controversial.'

if you find this 'controversial,' you might want to reevaluate some things.

Edited January 7, 2013 by bud

[jbg]

you would think someone with the following resume would receive the backing of republicans:

• experienced as a senator
  
• vietnam war veteran
  
• with two purple hearts
  
• and vietnamese gallantry cross
  
• a lifelong republican
  
• a successful businessman
  

but no.

why would they turn on this courageous patriot, for the secretary of defense of united states?

The guy is an anti-Semitic fraud. Has there ever been an anti-Semite you didn't like?

[Bryan]

What is anti-semetic about what he's saying?

[jbg]

What is anti-semetic about what he's saying?

Advocating a false equality of rights between a made-up group, the Palestinians, and Israel. Since they are on the same land the argument always runs against Israel.

[BubberMiley]

I too was thinking of you on January 5. My condolences on your loss.

Edited January 21, 2013 by BubberMiley

[GostHacked]

Advocating a false equality of rights between a made-up group, the Palestinians, and Israel. Since they are on the same land the argument always runs against Israel.

They were Palestinians before the modern creation if Israel. How do you explain that?

[jbg]

They were Palestinians before the modern creation if Israel. How do you explain that?

At that time they were very clear that they were Arabs. Also how do you explain the lack of agitation for a "Palestinian State" when Jordan occupied the West Bank, Egypt held Gaza and Syria held the Golan Heights?

It seems a lot more that casting the Arabs' problems as one of "liberation" was a lot more effective than casting it as the "Arab refugee" problem. The latter was the former designation of the issue. Another factor was the neither Jordan nor Egypt wanted those areas back. But it is beyond peradventure that there was no agitation for the "self-determination" of those areas pre-1967, only agitation for yet another war to wipe out Israel.

[Canuckistani]

ah, so the two state solution is racist. Man there's a lot of racists out there. Seems to me even Israel was in favor of this racist position. But for sure, cast everybody that doesn't agree with Israeli Lebensraum policies as racist, and they'll start using terms like Lebensraum because once tarred why should they bother to be polite. Heck, there even seems to be a significant number of Israeli Jews who are racist in this fashion.

[GostHacked]

At that time they were very clear that they were Arabs. Also how do you explain the lack of agitation for a "Palestinian State" when Jordan occupied the West Bank, Egypt held Gaza and Syria held the Golan Heights?

It seems a lot more that casting the Arabs' problems as one of "liberation" was a lot more effective than casting it as the "Arab refugee" problem. The latter was the former designation of the issue. Another factor was the neither Jordan nor Egypt wanted those areas back. But it is beyond peradventure that there was no agitation for the "self-determination" of those areas pre-1967, only agitation for yet another war to wipe out Israel.

I've never known a group of people to hold a grudge for as long as the Jews have seemed to hold. Might be just my perspective, who knows.

[jbg]

I've never known a group of people to hold a grudge for as long as the Jews have seemed to hold. Might be just my perspective, who knows.

GostHacked, you've got to be kidding.

The "grudge" against the Jews has gone on since millenia before the time of Christ. Since then it has continued and culminated in the Holocaust.

I have always respected your sense of humor if not humour.

[bud]

the reality is that the israeli lobby is a bully and tries to intimidate any politician or journalist who shows or says anything beyond the script. why pretend otherwise?

[GostHacked]

GostHacked, you've got to be kidding.

The "grudge" against the Jews has gone on since millenia before the time of Christ. Since then it has continued and culminated in the Holocaust.

I have always respected your sense of humor if not humour.

I did not say the grudge against the Jews, I am talking about the Jewish grudge against the rest of the world. Now that the Jews have their home (at the expense of another peoples) they are still playing the victim every time someone pushes back on them due to some violation of an international law in which they don't want to recognize without understanding that some aspects of international law are allowing Israel to exist. With the calls of 'remember the holocaust' and saying that the Palestinians are a fake made up people, you are not going to get the support needed to have peaceful coexistence.

Whatever happened in the past is the past and we should start looking at just letting it go. Sure don't forget, but we do need some forgiveness. That way we can forge a new life for all that respects each other and each others rights to exist. Until both sides have had enough of killing each other then we can really start to make some progress, until then, more fighting and the cycle will continue.

This Middle East which modern Israel is a part of has seen fighting for centuries and without let up it seems. Who is going to man up, lay down the weapons and start talking? And if one side does that, will the other side lay down the weapons as well?

When do you all get tired of living in fear and living in a perpetual state of war?

[bush_cheney2004]

Actually - the fact of the matter is - clearly - without any doubt - truthfully.....the "Israeli lobby" is a well organized American group that is very effective at representing their interests. They are much more effective than Canadian lobbyists for oil pipelines or softwood lumber.

[Bryan]

Advocating a false equality of rights between a made-up group, the Palestinians, and Israel. Since they are on the same land the argument always runs against Israel.

Any arguments against israel are brought on by their own actions. It's not who they are, it's what they do.

[jbg]

I did not say the grudge against the Jews, I am talking about the Jewish grudge against the rest of the world.

I know very well what you wrote. I can read.

My point is that the "grudge" is more against than held by the Jews. And wishing it weren't so doesn't change the facts one iota. The Jews are a very small portion of the world's population, and have to ensure their own existence since the Jews' interests are often subordinate to other issues among the non-Jewish nations.

During the years leading up to WW II and during the War the interests of appeasing the Germans, and then of fighting the war without it appearing to be a "Jewish war" took precedence to rescue of the Jews. Periodically since 1948 craven sellouts to oil interests or to "detente" with the Soviet Union have taken a front seat to Jewish interests. Why should we relax and let ourselves be walked on?

Now that the Jews have their home (at the expense of another peoples) they are still playing the victim every time someone pushes back on them due to some violation of an international law in which they don't want to recognize without understanding that some aspects of international law are allowing Israel to exist. With the calls of 'remember the holocaust' and saying that the Palestinians are a fake made up people, you are not going to get the support needed to have peaceful coexistence.

How convenient it is to raise "international law" as an issue except when Arabs mount illegal blockades of Israel (May-June 1967, Straits of Tiran, by Egypt) or boycotts of Israel? Was the Holocaust in accordance with international law?

Whatever happened in the past is the past and we should start looking at just letting it go. Sure don't forget, but we do need some forgiveness. That way we can forge a new life for all that respects each other and each others rights to exist. Until both sides have had enough of killing each other then we can really start to make some progress, until then, more fighting and the cycle will continue.

True, but look what's going on in Syria? Is there really anyone to negotiate with?

This Middle East which modern Israel is a part of has seen fighting for centuries and without let up it seems. Who is going to man up, lay down the weapons and start talking? And if one side does that, will the other side lay down the weapons as well?

Probably not.

When do you all get tired of living in fear and living in a perpetual state of war?

We always want peace but anyone who can hear and read and is not in a state of denial (no that isn't a river in Sudan and Egypt) believes that the Arabs want peace.

[jbg]

Any arguments against israel are brought on by their own actions. It's not who they are, it's what they do.

What Israel does is what any civilized or advance people do in response to savagery in neighboring areas.

[bud]

Actually - the fact of the matter is - clearly - without any doubt - truthfully.....the "Israeli lobby" is a well organized American group that is very effective at representing their interests. They are much more effective than Canadian lobbyists for oil pipelines or softwood lumber.

they spend millions in funding campaigns of those who they want to win. this includes smear campaigns against those who they do not want to win. that's the biggest reason why they're successful.

it's good to see that more and more americans are not okay with a foreign lobby group having so much control over america's foreign policy.

[bud]

What Israel does is what any civilized or advance people do in response to savagery in neighboring areas.

no matter how much you try to make it sound like it's okay, land theft, human rights violations and the breaking of numerous international law are not okay.

[bush_cheney2004]

they spend millions in funding campaigns of those who they want to win. this includes smear campaigns against those who they do not want to win. that's the biggest reason why they're successful.

Apparently your "smear campaign" is not nearly as effective....try harder from Vancouver.

it's good to see that more and more americans are not okay with a foreign lobby group having so much control over america's foreign policy.

It's not a "foreign" group...it is American as apple pie. I think Americans do/should care more than Canadians about their own country's foreign policy.

[Shady]

you would think someone with the following resume would receive the backing of republicans:

• experienced as a senator
  
• vietnam war veteran
  
• with two purple hearts
  
• and vietnamese gallantry cross
  
• a lifelong republican
  
• a successful businessman
  

Hmm, sounds like John McCain. Seems like Hagel should have backed Mr. McCain's presidential bid if those are the qualifications Republicans should use to support eachother.

[Bonam]

they spend millions in funding campaigns of those who they want to win. this includes smear campaigns against those who they do not want to win. that's the biggest reason why they're successful.

You mean just like the thousands of other lobby groups at work in American politics? Lobby groups for oil companies, defense contractors, for wall street, for religious interests, for environmental causes, for and against abortion, for and against gay marriage, for and against firearms control and regulation, for auto manufacturers, for farmers, etc etc etc.

Now, we can perhaps disagree with and criticize the nature of the lobby system. Personally, I think it could use a lot of changes. But there is nothing remarkable about AIPAC within the context of American politics, it is just another interest group among many, following the processes that are commonplace for all such groups.