Mass shooting

[Smallc]

That's not their primary purpose. Read up on the program.

[Guest American Woman]

That's not their primary purpose. Read up on the program.

What difference does it make if it's their "primary" purpose or not? They are there to keep schools safe - they are armed. Do you think they'd sit idly by if they thought there was a situation involving a student? They aren't any less likely to accidentally shoot a student than the police in the U.S. would be.

[punked]

What difference does it make if it's their "primary" purpose or not? They are there to keep schools safe - they are armed. Do you think they'd sit idly by if they thought there was a situation involving a student? They aren't any less likely to accidentally shoot a student than the police in the U.S. would be.

Name the last shooting to happen in Canada at school. They aren't their to prevent mass shootings because they don't happen. I am sorry to say it. Their is nothing for them to prevent.

[Wilber]

Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the nation's largest gun rights lobbying organization, said the NRA would push Congress to put a police officer in every school and would coordinate a national effort to put

former military and police offers

in schools as volunteer guards.

LaPierre cited Israel as a model for the type of school security system the NRA envisions.

"Israel had a whole lot of school shootings until they did one thing: They said 'we're going to stop it,' and they put armed security in every school and they have not had a problem since then," he said.

http://abcnews.go.co...85#.UNdmqeT7Lao

What an ingenuous SOB. He is totally against 80% of what Israel does.

An Israeli take: http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23572/Default.aspx

Not to mention the fact Israel is a little country surrounded by other countries which want it to disappear, plus militant Arab groups like Hamas and other terrorist organizations looking to exploit any weakness. Americans are just trying to protect themselves from each other.

[Guest American Woman]

Name the last shooting to happen in Canada at school. They aren't their to prevent mass shootings because they don't happen. I am sorry to say it. Their is nothing for them to prevent.

You're sorry to say that you don't have mass shootings at your schools? Ok.

Their presence is "a result of last year's Falconer report on school violence. Following its release, the board said it would draft a plan to increase safety in schools. Toronto lawyer Julian Falconer led a three-member school community safety advisory panel set up after the fatal shooting of Jordan Manners at C.W. Jefferys high school in May 2007."

They are there to keep the schools safe, just as I said. And they are armed, just as I said.

[Guest American Woman]

What an ingenuous SOB. He is totally against 80% of what Israel does.

Presuming that's true - that matters, how?

An Israeli take: http://www.israeltod...72/Default.aspx

Not sure of the relevance as LaPierre never said that Israeli teachers were packing heat.

Not to mention the fact Israel is a little country surrounded by other countries which want it to disappear, plus militant Arab groups like Hamas and other terrorist organizations looking to exploit any weakness. Americans are just trying to protect themselves from each other.

Again. The relevance would be..?

[punked]

You're sorry to say that you don't have mass shootings at your schools? Ok.

Their presence is "a result of last year's Falconer report on school violence. Following its release, the board said it would draft a plan to increase safety in schools. Toronto lawyer Julian Falconer led a three-member school community safety advisory panel set up after the fatal shooting of Jordan Manners at C.W. Jefferys high school in May 2007."

They are there to keep the schools safe, just as I said. And they are armed, just as I said.

No I am sorry to say that Mass shootings are an American problem and that you refuse to accept that.

As for the rest of what you are saying. No one is arguing that Police in Schools can make them safer. It doesn't stop the problem this whole thread addresses and what the NRA refuses to address. MASS SHOOTINGS. Stopping gun men from entering schools would be great but again it doesn't stop them EVERYWHERE ELSE!

[Bonam]

Again. The relevance would be..?

I think the relevance is that Israel has more reason for guns to be everywhere than most other nations, since they may (and often are) be attacked at any moment by enemies sworn to kill every last Jew. Furthermore, in Israel, every adult except those specially exempted has military training and thus knows how to properly and safely own and use their guns. And those that don't have such training generally can't get guns.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Bonam

[Guest American Woman]

No I am sorry to say that Mass shootings are an American problem and that you refuse to accept that.

Since they've happened outside of the U.S., you're wrong - but keep living in your little 'everything is perfect in Canada' bubble; I don't want to be the one to burst it.

As for the rest of what you are saying. No one is arguing that Police in Schools can make them safer. It doesn't stop the problem this whole thread addresses and what the NRA refuses to address. MASS SHOOTINGS. Stopping gun men from entering schools would be great but again it doesn't stop them EVERYWHERE ELSE!

Stop shouting. If you want to discuss, then try to discuss without the emotional outbursts. The NRA is speaking of protecting schools. I'm sure no one screamed about the rest of Toronto not being any safer in response to police officers presence in Toronto schools.

Edited December 23, 2012 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

I think the relevance is that Israel has more reason for guns to be everywhere than most other nations, since they may (and often are) be attacked at any moment by enemies sworn to kill every last Jew.

So the U.S. doesn't have enough of a reason to have police officers in schools? Is that what you're saying?

Furthermore, in Israel, every adult except those specially exempted has military training and thus knows how to properly and safely own and use their guns.

Again. Not seeing the relevance.

[Wilber]

Presuming that's true - that matters, how?

Not sure of the relevance as LaPierre never said that Israeli teachers were packing heat.

Again. The relevance would be..?

The relevance would be that he picks and choses what Israelis do to support his own agenda and deflect the problem onto someone else, while completely rejecting most to what they do. He doesn't want to deal with the real issues, he just wants them to go away and not bother him. Israelis are not putting guards in their schools to protect them from other Israelis.

[Guest American Woman]

Israelis are not putting guards in their schools to protect them from other Israelis.

What difference does that make?

[punked]

Since they've happened outside of the U.S., you're wrong - but keep living in your little 'everything is perfect in Canada' bubble; I don't want to be the one to burst it.

Stop shouting. If you want to discuss, then try to discuss without the emotional outbursts. The NRA is speaking of protecting schools. I'm sure no one screamed about the rest of Toronto not being any safer in response to police officers presence in Toronto.

In 2008 American had 11,000 gun related Homicides, Japan had 11. Sorry I am not wrong. You have a very real problem. Yes mass killings happen other places the thing is the happen less. I don't for a minute think you stop every mass killing but why do you have so many, could any be prevented and why is this a small problem else where in the world. These are serious questions you should be asking yourself.

[Bonam]

So the U.S. doesn't have enough of a reason to have police officers in schools? Is that what you're saying?

While I had not been saying that, I would agree with that statement. The cost per life saved would be far too high for this to be an effective use of funding in my opinion, based on my rough analysis earlier. It would make sense to put police officers in schools to deter mass shootings if they were about 100x more prevalent than they are now, but as it is, they would likely cause more harm than good in addition to costing tens of billions of dollars.

[Guest American Woman]

In 2008 American had 11,000 gun related Homicides, Japan had 11. Sorry I am not wrong.

Since school killings have happened in other nations, yes, you are wrong. I never said anything about Japan, but thanks for trotting that statistic out all the same.

You have a very real problem. Yes mass killings happen other places the thing is the happen less. I don't for a minute think you stop every mass killing but why do you have so many, could any be prevented and why is this a small problem else where in the world. These are serious questions you should be asking yourself.

What makes you think I haven't been asking myself that?

[Guest American Woman]

While I had not been saying that, I would agree with that statement. The cost per life saved would be far too high for this to be an effective use of funding in my opinion, based on my rough analysis earlier. It would make sense to put police officers in schools to deter mass shootings if they were about 100x more prevalent than they are now, but as it is, they would likely cause more harm than good in addition to costing tens of billions of dollars.

Ok, that clarifies your position for me. I've never said one way or the other whether or not I think it's a good idea - but I think I tend to agree with what you say here for the most part .

[Wilber]

What difference does that make?

sd

Good grief, you can't really be that thick.

[punked]

Since school killings have happened in other nations, yes, you are wrong. I never said anything about Japan, but thanks for trotting that statistic out all the same.

Not at the same rate or extent. BTW I haven't been talking about school shootings because I understand a shooting at a school or a movie theater result in the samething loss of human life. I don't care if it is at a school, or a baseball game which is the problem I have with the NRA's solution to this problem. America has a problem with mass homicide and the NRA isn't helping in anyway. In fact it is their lobbying that makes it so the US government can not study guns and how they are linked to homicides or how that could be prevented. I don't think we should get rid of guns for a second but I think the NRA is getting in the way of coming up with real answers. You need to get on the right side of history because the NRA isn't part of the solution they are part of the problem.

[Guest American Woman]

sd

Good grief, you can't really be that thick.

Done discussing this with you. Carry on.

[Wilber]

Done discussing this with you. Carry on.

Thanks for answering my question.

[punked]

What makes you think I haven't been asking myself that?

You clearly don't ask yourself that because you support a lobbying organization that makes that question impossible to answer.

[Guest American Woman]

You clearly don't ask yourself that because you support a lobbying organization that makes that question impossible to answer.

Really? So if I don't blame it all on our gun laws, if I don't think that's the only reason such things happen, then I'm not questioning why these things happen. Clearly.

[punked]

Really? So if I don't blame it all on our gun laws, if I don't think that's the only reason such things happen, then I'm not questioning why these things happen. Clearly.

No you say you want to know why these things happen and ways it can be prevented but you support the NRA which is the lobby that got congress ban the CDC and NIH from funding any such studies. You clearly don't know what you support or you really don't want answers to the problems because you are afraid of the solutions.

There is a small step that could lead to big results. Let the smartest and best in the world actually look at the problem. These are the types of solution I am arguing for (and the NRA is dead against) and you seem to paint me as a left wing loon. My answer let people look at the problem and suggest real solutions.

Edited December 23, 2012 by punked

[Smallc]

In 2008 American had 11,000 gun related Homicides, Japan had 11.

Wow.

[punked]

Wow.

I know right America has a problem. That much is obvious. Instead of being lumped in with Japan, Britain and other G8 nations it gets lumped in with Mexico, Columbia....etc. It has a problem so lets look at it figure out what it is and change it for the better. That is all I am saying. I know SmallC you are pro gun person like myself but at some point and time it reaches a point where we have to do something. More guns which has been the solution for the last 30 years hasn't done anything. It is a failed solution. Time for something new.