Mass shooting

[punked]

Correct...and what is the current status of that registry ?

At least we were grown up enough to talk about it.

[eyeball]

No, the kind of individual that would want to kill children should not have access to assault weapons or any other weapons. There need to be background checks on mental health for all weapons sales.

What about the people gun owners live with? What about gun owners who become ill after they've been checked? The fact that 20 - 25% of all human beings will suffer a mental illness means you are talking about tracking up to almost 80 million Americans. Given the attitudes and the fear and loathing that is usually reserved for mental illness I suspect the incidence of reported mental illness will plummet as fast as gun and ammo sales go up.

Land of the free? Free of what?

The individual in question murdered another adult (his mother) and stole her weapons. What do you propose should be done about that? One solution might be weapons with biometrics that only allow the registered owner to discharge the firearm... i.e. a fingerprint reader on the trigger or palmprint reader on the grip.

Smart-guns make a lot of sense. I'd keep exploring this avenue and come up with a gun that won't fire when it's pointed at a human being. How will your bio-metric trigger know if the finger squeezing it is under the control of an owner who's mind is out of their control?

The real issue here is mental health and how dangerously violent unstable individuals are going unnoticed, untreated, and unsecured. Yes, if you could somehow ban the deadliest weapons and forcefully confiscate from the people the tens of millions of such weapons already in circulation, you could probably reduce the average number of casualties caused in such incidents, but the incidents would still happen, and would still be deadly and tragic. Why not go after the root of the problem, rather than merely trying to slightly reduce its deadliness by restricting some of the tools used?

Any society that "goes after" ill people as if they were a threat to be feared will rapidly escalate into a society that goes after them because they loathe them. Nothing will drive mental illness back into the swamp of medieval ignorance from which the right to bear battlefield arms comes from faster.

It's not armed guards we need in schools, nor gun bans, but specialized psychologists trained to detect the kind of personality disorders that have been a commonality in so many of these mass shootings, and a program to provide treatment where possible and institutionalization where necessary.

Before we do anything of the sort, we need to deal with public attitudes towards mental illness. I think the fact that a rocket scientist can talk of "going after" people for being sick proves the point I'm making. Do you spank your kids for coming home with a cold?

Edited December 22, 2012 by eyeball

[cybercoma]

Really? Makes one wonder why no one noticed arsonists starting the fires in which other people died. Makes one wonder why no one noticed the bomb in OK City. Makes one wonder why a bomb was responsible for the worst school massacre in the history of the U.S. Makes one wonder why you keep downplaying other methods of mass homicide. The reality is, large numbers of people have died in single incidents other than those where guns are involved, too. I've given examples. I've given statistics.

That's nice. And the stats show that 2/3 of the mass homicides are done with guns.

[cybercoma]

There isn't as much discussion about gun control after we have a shooting spree in Canada

Are you kidding me? The federal government spent millions following the École Polytechnique massacre

[cybercoma]

ARE YOU CRAZY? École Polytechnique massacre lead to a 15 year political fight about a long gun registry which changed the shape and politics in a lot of ways of this Nation. You are someone who clearly know nothing by making such insane statements.

Not just that, but a crapload of research funding came out of it for the study of violence against women and gun violence.

[bush_cheney2004]

At least we were grown up enough to talk about it.

The Americans did that years before Canada in the Gun Control Act of 1968 and Firearms Control Act of 1934.

As an American citizen, you should already know that.

[Guest Derek L]

You security guy supporters seem to have ignored the post pointing out that there WAS an armed security guard, actually a cop, at Columbine. It didn't do any good. He was outgunned and outnumbered.

So maybe you should propose a platoon of marines for each school now, complete with heavy weapons squad...

There was a Sherriff’s deputy assigned to the school, but he wasn’t on site and rushed back after the shooting started……….

[bush_cheney2004]

...Smart-guns make a lot of sense. I'd keep exploring this avenue and come up with a gun that won't fire when it's pointed at a human being. How will your bio-metric trigger know if the finger squeezing it is under the control of an owner who's mind is out of their control?

No, that would be a very stupid, impractical gun. The U.S. already has many patents for "smart guns" with RFID keys, bio-metrics, etc. Great for video games.

[Guest Derek L]

You want to spend tens of billions of dollars to create a massive new government department to put armed guards everywhere there are kids?

Who said that? New hires in city or sheriff departments would be sufficient, like how we currently rotate in members of the local RCMP/Municipal detachments/departments……..Why would we need a new bureaucracy?

[Guest Derek L]

ARE YOU CRAZY? École Polytechnique massacre lead to a 15 year political fight about a long gun registry which changed the shape and politics in a lot of ways of this Nation. You are someone who clearly know nothing by making such insane statements.

Exactly, but even after the PC then Liberal Governments got their way, the actual gun, the Ruger Mini-14 was never banned nor even put into the restricted class of firearms.........I suppose it doesn't look scary enough:

What has changed? Gun licensing………….

[Guest Derek L]

No, that would be a very stupid, impractical gun. The U.S. already has many patents for "smart guns" with RFID keys, bio-metrics, etc. Great for video games.

......Not so much in practice..........

[guyser]

The NRA has been rather patient compared to the city of Toronto, which parked armed police officers in 27 high schools way back in 2008 in response to one shooting:

The NRA waited a year to comment on the Newtown shootings? How does that work since it was only a week ago?

2008 vs 2007

----------------------------------------------

In Toronto the results of having police in a school have been a overwhelming lateral move and not likely to continue. REsults show that there has been no increase in safety since overwhelming students and parents already felt safe, Almost all stats garnered where the same from before to after the program came into effect .

PUtting Vets and military (ret) in schools does not sound like the right idea, I would imagine the unemployable and the whackjobs make up a majority of the applicants.

George Zimmerman was on a neighbourhood security watch. Hire another 100,000 of him for the schools.

Yea...no problems there.

[Guest Derek L]

The NRA waited a year to comment on the Newtown shootings? How does that work since it was only a week ago?

2008 vs 2007

----------------------------------------------

In Toronto the results of having police in a school have been a overwhelming lateral move and not likely to continue. REsults show that there has been no increase in safety since overwhelming students and parents already felt safe, Almost all stats garnered where the same from before to after the program came into effect .

PUtting Vets and military (ret) in schools does not sound like the right idea, I would imagine the unemployable and the whackjobs make up a majority of the applicants.

George Zimmerman was on a neighbourhood security watch. Hire another 100,000 of him for the schools.

Yea...no problems there.

Why is that? Hire additional police officers and deputies through local departments……..you wouldn’t even have to put the new hires into the schools…..

[bush_cheney2004]

In Toronto the results of having police in a school have been a overwhelming lateral move and not likely to continue. REsults show that there has been no increase in safety since overwhelming students and parents already felt safe, Almost all stats garnered where the same from before to after the program came into effect .

I was just pointing out that the feelgood, kneejerk reaction in Toronto in the case of a single shooting was to put armed officers in 27 area high schools.

George Zimmerman was on a neighbourhood security watch. Hire another 100,000 of him for the schools.

I'm sure that's being considered. Bring back the Boy Scouts in schools.

[Argus]

There was a Sherriff’s deputy assigned to the school, but he wasn’t on site and rushed back after the shooting started……….

He exchanged shots with one of the gunman. You might be thinking of another cop who was nearby writing parking tickets and rushed to the school after hearing the first cop put out an alert, and he also exchanged shots with one of the gunmen.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Argus

[guyser]

Why is that? Hire additional police officers and deputies through local departments……..you wouldn’t even have to put the new hires into the schools…..

Cost

Plenty of communities cant even afford the cops they have now. Not to mention the continued growth of a police state. It can be seen with seizures increasing as a means to pay for what the cops want.

Edited December 22, 2012 by guyser

[guyser]

I was just pointing out that the feelgood, kneejerk reaction in Toronto in the case of a single shooting was to put armed officers in 27 area high schools.

Manners shooting was in 2007.

Police went into schools (not to mention lots of them were in place across this country prior ) in TO in 2008

[Guest Derek L]

I'm sure that's being considered.

So is this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/nyregion/cuomo-says-he-will-outline-gun-measures-next-month.html?_r=5&

In the interview, Mr. Cuomo did not offer specifics about the measures he might propose, but, while discussing assault weapons, he said: “Confiscation could be an option. Mandatory sale to the state could be an option. Permitting could be an option — keep your gun but permit it.”

I suppose it could be an option, but why do I foresee a Ruby Ridge and Waco happening on a weekly basis………I don’t suppose he’s contacted the various police unions for their reaction…..

Meanwhile, there's a run on tin-foil

[bush_cheney2004]

Police went into schools (not to mention lots of them were in place across this country prior ) in TO in 2008

Many police were also present in U.S. schools prior to last week as well. Texas school districts have there own police departments. Is it only a stupid idea when it comes from the NRA ?

[bush_cheney2004]

I suppose it could be an option, but why do I foresee a Ruby Ridge and Waco happening on a weekly basis………I don’t suppose he’s contacted the various police unions for their reaction…..

Confiscation is not a realistic option, as it would just turn law abiding citizens into criminals. Permitting has never been a complete solution, and would vary wildly from state to state. Guns are here to stay folks.

[Guest Derek L]

He exchanged shots with one of the gunman. You might be thinking of another cop who was nearby writing parking tickets and rushed to the school after hearing the first cop put out an alert, and he also exchanged shots with one of the gunmen.

Yeah, once he returned to the school..........It was the very same deputy, Neil Gardner........Now if deputy Gardner had of been inside the school, the entire events could have played out different.........returning to the school after the fact, when said gunmen were already lodged within said building would have required a platoon of Marines to retake..........

[Guest Derek L]

Confiscation is not a realistic option, as it would just turn law abiding citizens into criminals. Permitting has never been a complete solution, and would vary wildly from state to state. Guns are here to stay folks.

I agree 100%.Just the cost alone of laying siege to a unwilling gun owner’s home a week would bankrupt the country……..To say nothing of an increase in the level of training required for regular police officers and deputies in forcible egress training…….

[bush_cheney2004]

I agree 100%.Just the cost alone of laying siege to a unwilling gun owner’s home a week would bankrupt the country……..To say nothing of an increase in the level of training required for regular police officers and deputies in forcible egress training…….

Right...any confiscation regimen would cause far more problems than just letting the status quo continue, with gun related homicides at the lowest rate in decades. Americans have the constitutional right to own and bear arms....don't tempt them all to use them.

[bush_cheney2004]

Right...any confiscation regimen would cause far more problems than just letting the status quo continue, with gun related homicides at the lowest rate in decades. Americans have the constitutional right to own and bear arms....don't tempt them all to use them.

Just using the word "confiscation" is not very smart. Even more guns will now be sold.

Edited December 22, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest Derek L]

Right...any confiscation regimen would cause far more problems than just letting the status quo continue, with gun related homicides at the lowest rate in decades. Americans have the constitutional right to own and bear arms....don't tempt them all to use them.

Exactly, since attempting to confiscate private arms would require searching every single private residence in the United States……….Even if only 1% of the population “objected” to such a notion and favoured the “Cold dead hands approach” , that’s 3 million plus Waco Texas like stand-offs…….. That’s unimaginable, and like suggested before, would lead to civil unrest and a complete breakdown in American society……….At the end of the day, when only 43% of Americans in favour of further restrictions on Semi-auto firearms, quite clearly, that’s all that maters…….