bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 You believe that if the federal government try to impose stricter gun control, that it would lead to another civil war? Yes...I believe it would lead to widespread civil disobedience, revolt, and violence on a national scale. It would also be a constitutional crisis. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Haven't noticed many Mexicans on this forum but everythings cool cause Mexico is worse. OK The % of homicides by firearm is almost 40% in the US, while it's just under 21% of homicides in Mexico. The average is roughly 25%. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_hom_wit_fir-crime-gun-violence-homicides-firearms The rate per 100,00 people is nearly identical with the US at 3.6 and Mexico at 3.67. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_fir_hom_rat_per_100_pop-rate-per-100-000-pop So is Mexico worse for gun violence? Mexico has a higher homicide rate, but it seems gun violence is worse in the US. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 ...So is Mexico worse for gun violence? Mexico has a higher homicide rate, but it seems gun violence is worse in the US. Either way, why no sob stories from members here about Mexico's "gun problems" ? Mexico already has more restricted possession and public carry laws. Oh wait...I know why....one member already explained that Mexico is not part of the "western world", while another doesn't even accept Mexico as a part of Norte America. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Your schtick, trying to change the channel anytime anyone criticizes the US, is getting old. Find a new gimmick. Quote
BC_chick Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Either way, why no sob stories from members here about Mexico's "gun problems" ? Mexico already has more restricted possession and public carry laws. Oh wait...I know why....one member already explained that Mexico is not part of the "western world", while another doesn't even accept Mexico as a part of Norte America. You're comparing drug cartels offing each other to people getting killed in movie theaters and elementary schools? Oh and you're welcome to compare the US to Sudan too if it makes you feel better but generally these comparisons are done between countries with similar human index levels because there is a correlation between poverty/level of education and violent crime. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 You're comparing drug cartels offing each other to people getting killed in movie theaters and elementary schools? Yes...If you don't feel the lives of Mexicans count (not all are drug traffickers), that's your call. Oh and you're welcome to compare the US to Sudan too if it makes you feel better but generally these comparisons are done between countries with similar human index levels because there is a correlation between poverty/level of education and violent crime. Is Sudan part of the "western world" ? Only Canadians know for sure, right ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
BC_chick Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 I've recently gone through the process of getting a firearms license (just approved, by the way.) The first thing I can say about it is that it took over 5 months. I think that if I'd been in a rush to kill somebody, I'd have given up waiting for my PAL to arrive and gone and strangled them instead. The glacial pace of the process was frustrating enough that it could itself probably provoke a rampage of some sort. The second thing I can say is that all of the information I was asked to provide about my mental health was, as far as I can tell completely voluntary. I informed them that I have been treated for depression in the past, and ongoing treatment for general anxiety. They asked me for my doctor's contact information and for a letter indicating that she felt I was not a risk to harm anyone. Which I provided, and they approved my application afterward. I told them about my mental health history because that's the sort of person I am. However, as far as I can tell I could have just as easily told them that I had no mental health issues at all, and they would have never been the wiser. It would have been easy to write "no" on the application form and to tell them I'd never had any mental health concerns during the interview. How would they have found out otherwise? Further, if somebody who doesn't even know he's got mental health issues applies, how would they know? This voluntary screening might turn up somebody like me, who is aware and honest enough to tell them about it. It wouldn't turn up a liar. It certainly wouldn't turn up somebody with undiagnosed mental health issues. I think the only part of the process that provides any real screening is the interview with the references... and you're still depending on the honesty of the applicant's friends. "Joey's my friend and he's a pretty good guy... I don't think I'll mention the time he screamed at the boss and said he was going to kill everybody. He probably didn't mean it..." -k This is the part that doesn't make sense then if we disregard the differences in how our countries perceive guns. As per your post, both countries allow guns into the hands of people without asking too many questions about their mental-health. Both countries also plaster the names of killers on the news, 'glorifying' them. So what happened that the people living south of the 49th parallel ended up so many more incidents of senseless mass murder per capita than we did? Is it something in the water? If it's not the gun-culture that's rampant, then what? Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Is it something in the water? If it's not the gun-culture that's rampant, then what? Yes, it is something in the water, water fought over with firearms first with the hated Redcoats, then continued with an expansion west for conquest, survival, and hunting traditions that continue to this day. Firearms are part of the American identity, something that Canadians have a hard time defining in the first place. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
The_Squid Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Yes, it is something in the water, water fought over with firearms first with the hated Redcoats, then continued with an expansion west for conquest, survival, and hunting traditions that continue to this day. Firearms are part of the American identity, something that Canadians have a hard time defining in the first place. Even the historical context of guns is not unique to USA. The firearm was used as much to settle Canada as it was the USA. The problem is something more modern-day.... Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Even the historical context of guns is not unique to USA. The firearm was used as much to settle Canada as it was the USA. The problem is something more modern-day.... No it wasn't....no Canadian Revolution, no Canadian Civil War, no Canadian Indian Wars, no Canadian Mexican War, etc. Canada's population was much smaller and even to this day most of the northern interior remains uninhabited. Bears and wolves still run the place ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Bonam Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Canada's population was much smaller and even to this day most of the northern interior remains uninhabited. Just the way we like it... Quote
Wilber Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 No it wasn't....no Canadian Revolution, no Canadian Civil War, no Canadian Indian Wars, no Canadian Mexican War, etc. Canada's population was much smaller and even to this day most of the northern interior remains uninhabited. Bears and wolves still run the place ! The revolution was over some time ago and except for some regimental dress uniforms, they don't wear red any more. Don't you have a military to fight your wars? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Just the way we like it... That's cool.....but making comparisons to a nation with a different, more violent history and ten times the population is problematic. But all those guns and war materials sure came in handy during WW2. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 The revolution was over some time ago and except for some regimental dress uniforms, they don't wear red any more. Don't you have a military to fight your wars? Yes, but we also have a National Guard (militia), reserve units, and law enforcement. All have firearms. As I have stated before, the U.S.A. would not exist without firearms. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Bonam Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 That's cool.....but making comparisons to a nation with a different, more violent history and ten times the population is problematic. But all those guns and war materials sure came in handy during WW2. People compare more different things than the US and Canada all the time. Sometimes the comparisons are meaningful, other times not, all depends on the skill of the comparor in taking the relevant factors into account correctly in their comparison. Quote
The_Squid Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 The revolution was over some time ago and except for some regimental dress uniforms, they don't wear red any more. Don't you have a military to fight your wars? Apparently they live in the past! No it wasn't....no Canadian Revolution, no Canadian Civil War, no Canadian Indian Wars, no Canadian Mexican War, etc. Huh.... So I guess wars make a country? Of course Canada has a history with firearms. As does Britain and numerous other countries who fought many wars as well.... No, it's not the history that's created the carnage. And it's not that unique. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 People compare more different things than the US and Canada all the time. Sometimes the comparisons are meaningful, other times not, all depends on the skill of the comparor in taking the relevant factors into account correctly in their comparison. Some would make the academic distinction of comparison (similarities) vs. contrast (differences). By definition, the United States set out to violently differentiate itself from the scourge that was the British Empire with respect to land ownership, expansion into native territories, and personal liberty. And that meant the power of guns...and lots of them. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Apparently they live in the past! Most definitely....the American identity can trace its roots to violent revolt and liberty enabled by firearms. Huh.... So I guess wars make a country? Of course Canada has a history with firearms. As does Britain and numerous other countries who fought many wars as well.... No, it's not the history that's created the carnage. And it's not that unique. The United States was born of war, expanded in war, and became the world's lone super power through wars. Firearms were key to such events, domestically and internationally. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
BC_chick Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Yes...If you don't feel the lives of Mexicans count (not all are drug traffickers), that's your call. Is Sudan part of the "western world" ? Only Canadians know for sure, right ? The subject of this thread, in case you missed it, is "Mass Murder". That's the topic that has drawn so much attention. When/if Mexico catches up to the US on mass murder rates you can start asking why we're not concerned about their mass-murderers. Until then, your situation is pretty unique and we will continue to debate our personal views and speculations as to why. If you want to start a thread about general gun-violence to discuss Mexico vs. the US, go right ahead. Your point would then be moot because there is no way the discussion would generate 500 posts. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
BC_chick Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 No it wasn't....no Canadian Revolution, no Canadian Civil War, no Canadian Indian Wars, no Canadian Mexican War, etc. Canada's population was much smaller and even to this day most of the northern interior remains uninhabited. Bears and wolves still run the place ! Modern day Europe came from a pretty bloody history too, you don't see this kind of behaviour there. It's something way deeper than history. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Wilber Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Most definitely....the American identity can trace its roots to violent revolt and liberty enabled by firearms. The United States was born of war, expanded in war, and became the world's lone super power through wars. Firearms were key to such events, domestically and internationally. And before you, Britain forged the worlds largest empire, largely through wars. And before them and before them etc. Like Sqiud said, you aren't that unique. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Bonam Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Modern day Europe came from a pretty bloody history too, you don't see this kind of behaviour there. It's something way deeper than history. Well, the history created the culture, the laws, etc. Unless you want to assert that the difference is biological (some gene(s) more/less common among Americans) or environmental (something about the air/water/food/etc that causes people to snap), all the societal/human factors can pretty much be explained as a result of history. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 And before you, Britain forged the worlds largest empire, largely through wars. And before them and before them etc. Like Sqiud said, you aren't that unique. Did the British Empire have a constitution with gun rights ? Nope...it had half-assed rights for the serfs and a ruling monarch. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Well, the history created the culture, the laws, etc. Unless you want to assert that the difference is biological (some gene(s) more/less common among Americans) or environmental (something about the air/water/food/etc that causes people to snap), all the societal/human factors can pretty much be explained as a result of history. Except for the modern notion of individual liberty....that is the difference. That is why the American experience (and Constitution) are held up as the culmination of liberal European ideas put into practice....after much violence with firearms. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
BC_chick Posted December 17, 2012 Report Posted December 17, 2012 Well, the history created the culture, the laws, etc. Unless you want to assert that the difference is biological (some gene(s) more/less common among Americans) or environmental (something about the air/water/food/etc that causes people to snap), all the societal/human factors can pretty much be explained as a result of history. I've pretty much been saying it's the gun-culture from page 2 or 3. Blaming the environment is sarcasm because gun-culture is the only different element compared to other other first-world nations (European countries, Canada, Australia and NZ) which share similar histories. My post from the previous page: This is the part that doesn't make sense then if we disregard the differences in how our countries perceive guns. As per your post, both countries allow guns into the hands of people without asking too many questions about their mental-health. Both countries also plaster the names of killers on the news, 'glorifying' them. So what happened that the people living south of the 49th parallel ended up so many more incidents of senseless mass murder per capita than we did? Is it something in the water? If it's not the gun-culture that's rampant, then what? Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
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