jacee Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 Irrelevant. Ottawa. Noodles. See...I can say random things to avoid questions too. Your problem is that you don't even read what people are saying. I said two or three times that I agreed with INM to begin with but it lost me with their antics. But your head is in the sand and you don't see that I have said that. One suggestion....stop trying to make yourself look good by copying and pasting other people's ideas. Have an idea of your own. Even if its a bad idea at least it shows you're trying. ??? Quote
nimiru Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 Maybe it is a time for a new thought. I believe we are well aware there are minorities in this country that are in need of attention. OK so far. Now let's take it a step further. I think it is time for us all to realize that the whole nation is due for a time out and bit of commiseration so that we can all realize that every last one of us is in need of some comfort. Then we can look each other in the face with a better outlook and understanding and possibly resolve something once and for all. This is directed to those of you how do not know yet that everyone out there is hurting regardless of their up bringing and status, if I may use that word. Once society realizes it is much bigger than just a few hurt minorites and that we all need to be healed then we have reached the point where we will all finally have a chance to feel freedom as it was meant to be. Quote
nimiru Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 THis may sound ignorant but how does one weigh natives patience against the rest of our patience which is what I am surmising the question to be. Does the world wait on them in any untold way as it doesn't on anyone else. I consider these to be only fair questions and not to be a sign of hatred in any sense of the word. In fact I could quite readily supply any number of prejudicial statements of contrary quality of native agains't white from my own history. If I were so inclined. In any event I feel it is time to look at mankind in that sense only, mankind, not in any peculiarity. We espescially nowadays are most certainly in it together. And so the time has come to for all of us to act together. Further installments to follow. Quote
jacee Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 Perhaps another thread would be useful for discussion of all of "mankind", nimiru? Scathing report accuses B.C. Mounties of raping, abusing aboriginal girls "In 5 of the 10 towns Human Rights Watch visited in the north, we heard allegations of rape or sexual assault by police officers," the report states. "Human Rights Watch was struck by the level of fear on the part of women we met to talk about sexual abuse inflicted by police officers." RELATED STORIES Lessons must be learned from failures of missing women's inquiry: rights groups Rhoad said about a dozen young women cancelled interviews with researchers because they were too scared of repercussions from police officers working in their small communities. Samer Muscati, a Canadian co-researcher, said the level of fear among the women interviewed was on par with what he's encountered while researching abuses by security forces throughout the Middle East, Iraq, Libya and Sudan. "You expect that level of fear when you're in a place like Iraq, in a post-conflict country where security forces are implicated in horrible abuses," said Muscati. "But in Canada, where police are known to protect citizens, it is quite alarming to hear the stories of women and girls, particularly." ... The most serious is from a homeless woman identified as Gabriella P., who described being raped by four Mounties. She told researchers she knew the names of the officers, but refused to provide them. "I feel so dirty," a tearful Gabriella is quoted as saying in the report. "They threatened that if I told anybody they would take me out to the mountains and kill me and make it look like an accident." Does the RCMP even know whether it has problems with misconduct? Apparently not. RCMP failed to track internal misconduct for years: List tracking serious cases had to be created from scratch, commissioner reveals after CBC News probe The head of the RCMP admitted that Canada’s national police force neglected to keep tabs on hundreds of cases of serious misconduct committed by Mounties across the country for years. Commissioner Bob Paulson acknowledged that an access to information request by CBC News inadvertently revealed that not even senior leaders in the RCMP could say with confidence whether incidents of misconduct that include assaults, impaired driving and fraud were a problem in the force. “You’re right,” said Paulson, who has been on the job just over a year. “The RCMP hadn't been tracking until I got here and now we are. We're tracking them all." ... The discovery that no one within the RCMP had a comprehensive list of Mounties who’d been disciplined, became obvious after CBC News asked for basic data between 2005 and 2008 that included offences and findings by internal adjudications boards. CBC News submitted the request in November 2008. It was delivered four years later in November 2012. An officer who handled the file offered an embarrassed apology, and explained the delay was due to the list having to be created from scratch. ... Josh Paterson, executive director of the B.C. Civil Liberties Association called it irresponsible. “The RCMP is an organization charged with keeping track of crime right across the country,” Paterson said. “And yet within their own organization, they had no way, short of spending four years pulling this research together, knowing the rate at which their officers were committing very serious misconduct. The RCMP appears to have become a rogue police force with no accountability outside or inside the force. Nowhere is this more evident than with the most vulnerable of our society - Indigenous women and girls. It suggests a whole new direction for investigation of the missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls of the 'Highway of tears' in northern BC and all across Canada ... an investigation that should NOT be carried out by the RCMP. An international police force would be most appropriate. Quote
Accountability Now Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 Scathing report accuses B.C. Mounties of raping, abusing aboriginal girls "In 5 of the 10 towns Human Rights Watch visited in the north, we heard allegations of rape or sexual assault by police officers," the report states. "Human Rights Watch was struck by the level of fear on the part of women we met to talk about sexual abuse inflicted by police officers." Another great cut and paste job by Jacee. However you convenienty didn't cut and paste a very key part. "None of the allegations have been proven in court and the RCMP has not commented on the report." The allegations are very serious as we do need to hold our officers to a higher standard. Having said that, they are human and will make mistakes. I am all for a further inquisition to see if there have been any wrong doings but as always we have our typical left media that likes to only show one side of the story. Did they dig a little deeper to see the conditions of the people they were interviewing? As per the Canadian Mental Health Association, The link between homelessness and mental illness is well documented: 30-35 percent of the homeless in general, and up to 75 percent of homeless women specifically, have a mental illness.2 http://www.ontario.cmha.ca/fact_sheets.asp?cID=3975 I'm not making a large jump to say the police are innocent but a deeper examination is needed before such judgement is passed. The RCMP appears to have become a rogue police force with no accountability outside or inside the force. Nowhere is this more evident than with the most vulnerable of our society - Indigenous women and girls. You do realize that the RCMP is a NATIONAL police force? Making a genrealization that ALL forces in the RCMP are 'rogue' and have no accountability based on the actions of one area and possibly one department are ridiculous and unwelcomed. Here I'll throw it back at you....Attiwapiskat squandered their bands money. All First Nations are thus corrupt. How do you like them apples? It suggests a whole new direction for investigation of the missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls of the 'Highway of tears' in northern BC and all across Canada ... an investigation that should NOT be carried out by the RCMP. An international police force would be most appropriate. I am all for an outside group to perform the investigation. The RCMP does this all the time by having City police foreces involved with internal investigations. This is the type of accountability that I wish cheifs and native reserves would adhere to but unfortunatley do not. Quote
DFCaper Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 This still makes me wonder why we shouldn't want FN to be equals. We have communities in Toronto that have people who live happily their daily lives, not speaking our languages and celebrating their own traditions. Why is this concidered wonderful by the left on this forum, as long as it is not for the aboriginals. Attempting to be greater than the "settlers" has done nothing but made there existance, the worst in Canada. Having seen a few continents of this Earth, we are very lucky to be here. Not sure why others see being Canadian as a punishment... I certainly don't. Quote "Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it" - Hellen Keller "Success is not measured by the heights one attains, but by the obstacles one overcomes in its attainment" - Booker T. Washington
Accountability Now Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 This still makes me wonder why we shouldn't want FN to be equals. We have communities in Toronto that have people who live happily their daily lives, not speaking our languages and celebrating their own traditions. Why is this concidered wonderful by the left on this forum, as long as it is not for the aboriginals. I hear ya. The treaties have given them certain rights and have taken certain rights. Overall they are not equal. Some would argue they have it better, most would say they don't. However the FN are adament to keep the treaty rights which is weird as the treaties were the first and most consitent form of colonizalism in our country. Yet they hold on to the things that oppress them. Quote
jacee Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) Another great cut and paste job by Jacee. However you convenienty didn't cut and paste a very key part. "None of the allegations have been proven in court and the RCMP has not commented on the report." The allegations are very serious as we do need to hold our officers to a higher standard. Having said that, they are human and will make mistakes. I am all for a further inquisition to see if there have been any wrong doings but as always we have our typical left media that likes to only show one side of the story. Did they dig a little deeper to see the conditions of the people they were interviewing? As per the Canadian Mental Health Association, The link between homelessness and mental illness is well documented: 30-35 percent of the homeless in general, and up to 75 percent of homeless women specifically, have a mental illness.2 http://www.ontario.cmha.ca/fact_sheets.asp?cID=3975 I'm not making a large jump to say the police are innocent but a deeper examination is needed before such judgement is passed. ... I am all for an outside group to perform the investigation. The RCMP does this all the time by having City police foreces involved with internal investigations. This is the type of accountability that I wish cheifs and native reserves would adhere to but unfortunatley do not. The RCMP have now responded. No one has come forward to make these complaints to them. Obviously. http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=7957561 Harper says the women should report it to the appropriate police. I guess he means the local RCMP who committed the offences. Like that's going to happen! I don't think it's appropriate for any Canadian police force to investigate misdeeds by the RCMP, and frankly Interrpol is compromised too by the presence of the former (disgraced) Commissioner of the RCMP, Zaccardelli. Edited February 13, 2013 by jacee Quote
Accountability Now Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 The RCMP have now responded. No one has come forward to make these complaints to them. Obviously. http://www.vancouver...html?id=7957561 Harper says the women should report it to the appropriate police. I guess he means the local RCMP who committed the offences. Like that's going to happen! I don't think it's appropriate for any Canadian police force to investigate misdeeds by the RCMP, and frankly Interrpol is compromised too by the presence of the former (disgraced) Commissioner of the RCMP, Zaccardelli. Your link wasn't working but I think I was able to find the same article. The bottom line is that you are generalizing an entire police force by the poor actions of possiblly a few of their members. Without hesitation I can tell you that police officers are not perfect and our belief that they are perfect is what allows for this stuff to go unnoticed. Assuming these accusations are valid, then the women should have taken it to a higher authority either within the RCMP or government or Human Rights....whatever. From what I understand of the police in my area....the City Police will gladly rat out the RCMP and vice versa. No love loss there. The fact is now we are left trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together to figure this one out. In any event, I still think that you are way off on your opinion of the RCMP. Even that article states this is an isolated incident but of course you didn't comment on that so let me show you. Human Rights Watch - an international organization dedicated to protecting human rights - says the allegations do not prove a "pattern of routine systematic abuse" by police, but are worrisome. "While the testimonies that Human Rights Watch gathered do not establish the prevalence of abuse, they do, together with other studies, raise serious concerns about police practices, police Having said this, you obviously live in a world of conspiracy theories because even "Interpol" is compromised? Seriously....you need to go live in Mexico or a third world country where the police are paid by the cartels and then see what ulterior motives really are. The reality is that 99% of police in this country are average men and women who are trying to do the job to the best of their abilities by serving and protecting. They are not perfect. In certain cases they go too far when trying to restrain people and in other cases they abuse the power they have. They are humans and have the ability to mess up. But I will gladly standby the police organization in this country and be proud to have these organizations to serve us. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 Harper says the women should report it to the appropriate police. I guess he means the local RCMP who committed the offences. Like that's going to happen! The top RCMP member in the area for years was not only native but also a woman. But, she was on the fast-track to an Ottawa posting. Many of the women victims/missing on the so-called Highway of Tears were white. But that matters not when there's stories to be told. Native groups insist this is the work of a predator. This predator, if it is a lone individual, has been at it since 1970...that should make him about 70-80 years old or so. But yeah...it's all one guy's fault. Be careful of the yarns coming out of the north woods. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
jacee Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) Your link wasn't working but I think I was able to find the same article. The bottom line is that you are generalizing an entire police force by the poor actions of possiblly a few of their members. Without hesitation I can tell you that police officers are not perfect and our belief that they are perfect is what allows for this stuff to go unnoticed. Assuming these accusations are valid, then the women should have taken it to a higher authority either within the RCMP or government or Human Rights....whatever. From what I understand of the police in my area....the City Police will gladly rat out the RCMP and vice versa. No love loss there. The fact is now we are left trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together to figure this one out. In any event, I still think that you are way off on your opinion of the RCMP. Even that article states this is an isolated incident but of course you didn't comment on that so let me show you. Human Rights Watch - an international organization dedicated to protecting human rights - says the allegations do not prove a "pattern of routine systematic abuse" by police, but are worrisome. "While the testimonies that Human Rights Watch gathered do not establish the prevalence of abuse, they do, together with other studies, raise serious concerns about police practices, police Having said this, you obviously live in a world of conspiracy theories because even "Interpol" is compromised? Seriously....you need to go live in Mexico or a third world country where the police are paid by the cartels and then see what ulterior motives really are. The reality is that 99% of police in this country are average men and women who are trying to do the job to the best of their abilities by serving and protecting. They are not perfect. In certain cases they go too far when trying to restrain people and in other cases they abuse the power they have. They are humans and have the ability to mess up. But I will gladly standby the police organization in this country and be proud to have these organizations to serve us. Hmmm ... link works for me. Who said "isolated incident"? I can't find that quote in the article. Can you cut and paste it perhaps? "In five of the 10 towns Human Rights Watch visited in the north, we heard allegations of rape or sexual assault by police officers," the report states. Doesn't sound "isolated" to me. You do know about Zaccardeli? Edited February 14, 2013 by jacee Quote
Accountability Now Posted February 13, 2013 Report Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) Hmmm ... link works for me. Who said "isolated incident"? I can't find that quote in the article. Can you cut and paste it perhaps? "In five of the 10 towns Human Rights Watch visited in the north, we heard allegations of rape or sexual assault by police officers," the report states. Doesn't sound "isolated" to me. I did paste it. Read the CLIP!!! Its starts with Human Rights Watch - Again....this proves that you are only trying to read what you want. Read the whole thing before you re-post. Its isolated to this area. My point is that the RCMP is a national group. Do you get that yet? Edited February 13, 2013 by Accountability Now Quote
westguy Posted February 14, 2013 Report Posted February 14, 2013 I think you mean "alleged misdeeds' Quote
jacee Posted February 14, 2013 Report Posted February 14, 2013 I think you mean "alleged misdeeds' Yes, you're right. I welcome due process. But not to be investigated by 'their own'. Quote
Accountability Now Posted February 14, 2013 Report Posted February 14, 2013 I think you mean "alleged misdeeds' Yup! I stated that about five posts already however Jacee is convinced the entire RCMP is corrupt and so is Interpol. So there really is no hope. Quote
jacee Posted February 15, 2013 Report Posted February 15, 2013 Yup! I stated that about five posts already however Jacee is convinced the entire RCMP is corrupt and so is Interpol. So there really is no hope. What would you suggest? Quote
g_bambino Posted February 15, 2013 Report Posted February 15, 2013 What would you suggest? Not automatically believing allegations (some quite incredulous) are fact, perhaps. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted February 15, 2013 Report Posted February 15, 2013 It's stereotypical to assume all RCMP officers/constables are white males...especially in Northern BC. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Accountability Now Posted February 15, 2013 Report Posted February 15, 2013 What would you suggest? I suggest they continue to do what they are doing now. Investigate and get to the bottom of the allegations and try to improve the system. You make it seem like the whole system is broken. It has some issues to deal with but It continues to be fixed like any other organization, company or working group. Quote
jacee Posted February 15, 2013 Report Posted February 15, 2013 I suggest they continue to do what they are doing now. Investigate and get to the bottom of the allegations and try to improve the system. You make it seem like the whole system is broken. It has some issues to deal with but It continues to be fixed like any other organization, company or working group. The RCMP are not investigating, though they've known about the allegations for months. The women, understandably, will not identify themselves to the RCMP. Harper is an ass for telling them to "get on" with reporting to the RCMP. News: Harper gang supports Liberal motion: Government agrees to committee on missing, murdered First Nations women OTTAWA - The federal government committed to create a special committee on missing and murdered aboriginal women Thursday, but this move falls short of longstanding requests levelled by aboriginal organizations and opposition parties for a national inquiry. The government agreed to evaluate "public policy issues" related the murders and disappearances of First Nations women ... This is not criminal investigation, but policy study, I expect to identify where legislation/policy can help. It's not enough, but it's a step. Quote
Sleipnir Posted February 15, 2013 Report Posted February 15, 2013 "Human Rights Watch was struck by the level of fear on the part of women we met to talk about sexual abuse inflicted by police officers." I find the report suspicious, I don't see any reliable sources to back up the report's claim... Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
Accountability Now Posted February 16, 2013 Report Posted February 16, 2013 The RCMP are not investigating, though they've known about the allegations for months. The women, understandably, will not identify themselves to the RCMP. Why would the RCMP investigate any further? It would be the exact same if they heard allegations that I was assaulted but I didn't come forward. That's the way the system works. They can't investigate until they have people to talk to instead of the ghosts they're dealing with now. My point about investigation was the investigation that the province is already doing or the one that Human Rights Watch did or possibly what the Feds may do. Yes...these are investigations of policy but what else can they do until people come forward? I'm not saying the RCMP are innocent but without people to come forward I will have no choice but to believe their innocence...and so should you. Quote
jbg Posted February 16, 2013 Report Posted February 16, 2013 And finally, Chief Spence's message is directed to the AFN elected Chiefs, of whom she is one: "I'm asking everyone to encourage all the chiefs to work with the grassroots people," Ms. Spence said ... The reason I may seem to belabour the point is this: It is a strong tendency, and a great mistake, for the media and some observers to try to reduce the INM movement to soundbytes from a small select group of leaders, who can then be individually criticised and dismissed, and the entire movement along with them. Does anyone, especially Spence, have a plan to either lift the FN from a permanent, subsidized underclass into a productive, happy group? Or to return them to true traditional ways? I think not. I think she and others are seeking to expand the gravy train. Someone, somehow, should be thinking of ways to end a perpetual class that does little but reproduce like mad and get government checks. AFN Chiefs are vulnerable: Their paycheques and funding come from the federal government. Thus, they can be intimidated into silence, and often are. In fact, Harper has several times made open threats to withhold funding for their communities if they don't shut up. The INM movement does not 'belong' to the AFN chiefs, and they do not lead it, though they may join it like anyone else. It belongs to the people. I think that message comes through in the article somewhat, despite the media's focus on Chief Spence. For what are the chiefs getting paid? Have they done anything to accomplish anything for their people? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jacee Posted February 16, 2013 Report Posted February 16, 2013 (edited) Does anyone, especially Spence, have a plan to either lift the FN from a permanent, subsidized underclass into a productive, happy group? Or to return them to true traditional ways? I think not. I think she and others are seeking to expand the gravy train. Someone, somehow, should be thinking of ways to end a perpetual class that does little but reproduce like mad and get government checks. For what are the chiefs getting paid? Have they done anything to accomplish anything for their people? It doesn't appear that you have any constructive thoughts. Edited February 16, 2013 by jacee Quote
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