Canuckistani Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 Maybe if some of these reserves were amalgamated into some kind of large native run town (or small city) somewhere the government could establish an economic zone which would encourage the startup of businesses and industry... Just another Bantustan and welfare dressed up in a suit. Invest in Nativeville. Quote
g_bambino Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 There are no jobs, there never will be. There's a successful diamond mine there. I've lived in a mining town; it was lively enough and had a functioning economy. Quote
Canuckistani Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 There's a successful diamond mine there. I've lived in a mining town; it was lively enough and had a functioning economy. The mine is a plane trip away. Attawaspikat people were offered jobs, but few took them or took the initiative to take training for them. The usual story. Who wants to live off reserve and work hard when you get stuff given to you on reserve? I'm sure DeBeers would have been happy to hire locally, since it would be a pr feather in their cap and a local workforce is always better. But, Attawaspikat was given 325 million dollars in contracts to service the mine, catering what have you. Attawaspikat claims to have realized a profit of 100,000 on those contracts. Even when jobs are provided, they're not taken. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 Oh yeah? $100 million + other millions solves big city problems. Where is the results of such a huge pay-out? In a community of 1200-1500, it should be rather obvious. A new runway capable of handling Air Bus 380s? Anyways...not seeing it. I don`t think I said there were any results. Mismanagement seems likely to me. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 It is pretty damned clear there is no earthly reason for these people to be sitting out there in the middle of nowhere. That`s your reaction to reading that they didn't open CARE packages ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
DogOnPorch Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 I don`t think I said there were any results. Mismanagement seems likely to me. Understatement. You have to really TRY to 'mismanage' that amount of Ka-ching. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
g_bambino Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 Attawaspikat people were offered jobs, but few took them or took the initiative to take training for them... Attawaspikat was given 325 million dollars in contracts to service the mine, catering what have you. Attawaspikat claims to have realized a profit of 100,000 on those contracts. Even when jobs are provided, they're not taken. The statement made was there are no jobs for anyone in Attawaspikat. Not taking jobs is not the same thing as there being no jobs to be taken (or refused). Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 Understatement. You have to really TRY to 'mismanage' that amount of Ka-ching. Hmmm.... Think about what you're saying here. That is difficult to mismanage large budgets. Large budgets are more difficult to manage, and from what I have read they're dealing with really complex problems. They seem out of their element to me. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Argus Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 There's a successful diamond mine there. I've lived in a mining town; it was lively enough and had a functioning economy. The mine is not THERE, but in the general neighborhood, but few natives have either the skills or inclination to become miners. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 That`s your reaction to reading that they didn't open CARE packages ? No, that's my reaction to the entirety of the cite. The fact they couldn't be bothered to open CARE packages speaks to the complete incompetence of the local band council or the dishonesty of those who say those people are poverty stricken. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Canuckistani Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 The statement made was there are no jobs for anyone in Attawaspikat. Not taking jobs is not the same thing as there being no jobs to be taken (or refused). Not in Attawaspikat. They have to fly to those jobs. And they only last until the mine closes, not a long term plan. If 325 mil flowing into the community, on top of all the govt money doesn't kick start an economy, nothing will. And natives not taking or sticking to jobs from a nearby development is also nothing new. None of it makes the res economically viable. You want to force them to take jobs if there are some, you're back to confrontation again. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 No, that's my reaction to the entirety of the cite. The fact they couldn't be bothered to open CARE packages speaks to the complete incompetence of the local band council ... Yes. I just shake my head at that. There's a complete lack of interest in goodwill from the Canadian people, an inability to move forward. You're not dealing with people who look at problems in the same way, so it's almost pointless to try to analyze these things. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
DogOnPorch Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 Hmmm.... Think about what you're saying here. That is difficult to mismanage large budgets. Large budgets are more difficult to manage, and from what I have read they're dealing with really complex problems. They seem out of their element to me. More understatements. As for mismanagement...again....you really have to try to fark-up to lose 100s of millions of dollars. Spare me the poor bookkeeping skills. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
g_bambino Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 They have to fly to those jobs. That's not unusual. And they only last until the mine closes, not a long term plan. True. Though, mines can be functional for decades; the town I lived in had been there for 40 years and is still there now, 12 years after I was there. Quote
Evening Star Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 I have to say a particular revealing commentary was that people shipped boxes and boxes of stuff to them back when the story was fresh, all sorts of donations. The boxes haven't even been opened because Spence 'couldn't find volunteers' to do it. So it's all just sitting there. These people are living in poverty? Is there a cite for this? It's pretty distressing if it's true. I donated some money at the time even though I didn't have a tonne of it. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 As for mismanagement...again....you really have to try to fark-up to lose 100s of millions of dollars. Spare me the poor bookkeeping skills. If it's as much of a slam dunk as you suggest, then it would have been easy for government lawyers to prove this, this year. It's difficult managing this stuff, and again I will say I think they're out of their element. The frustration in dealing with these things is excessive. Now, I'm reading that prior to the 3rd party imposition, the government was in charge of approving expenses anyway under co-management. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
DogOnPorch Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 If it's as much of a slam dunk as you suggest, then it would have been easy for government lawyers to prove this, this year. It's difficult managing this stuff, and again I will say I think they're out of their element. The frustration in dealing with these things is excessive. Now, I'm reading that prior to the 3rd party imposition, the government was in charge of approving expenses anyway under co-management. There's a job waiting for you in politics if you haven't already taken the plunge. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Michael Hardner Posted January 7, 2013 Report Posted January 7, 2013 There's a job waiting for you in politics if you haven't already taken the plunge. God, no. I'm afraid that my approach would be to lie to people's faces while making things happen behind the scenes. I have no patience for disputes, and matters of identity or ego. My experience is that most of the argument is about minor things that people are staking their egos on. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Bryan Posted January 8, 2013 Report Posted January 8, 2013 If it's as much of a slam dunk as you suggest, then it would have been easy for government lawyers to prove this, this year. It's difficult managing this stuff, and again I will say I think they're out of their element. The frustration in dealing with these things is excessive. I don't believe for a second that the case wasn't made. It's far more likely the judges decision was political in nature. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 8, 2013 Report Posted January 8, 2013 I don't believe for a second that the case wasn't made. It's far more likely the judges decision was political in nature. Why do you think that ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Smallc Posted January 8, 2013 Report Posted January 8, 2013 Because there's no way the judge was right given the evidence. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 8, 2013 Report Posted January 8, 2013 Because there's no way the judge was right given the evidence. Do you mean the audit ? That still hasn't been released. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
jbg Posted January 8, 2013 Report Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) Of course, the native apologists will likely tell us that we are dealing with natives and we can't expect them to live up to such standards because proper book-keeping is offensive to aboriginal culture... That reminds me of something I said back in 1968 when I was about 11. My family briefly experimented with hiring live-in help. They hired "Penny." I liked her.Within days, a transistor radio I received for my 11th birthday was stolen. My parents suspected Penny. They asked her for it back and it arrived. They promptly fired her and as an 11 year old I was saddened. I said "must be their custom" since she was of some Caribbean nationality. The next person they hired to help around the house was Melrose, who was quite honest. One of my memories of her was her leaving on a taxi one snowy Sunday morning on, I think, February 9, 1969. She got home that night. Others in what became known as the "Mayor Lindsay Blizzard" were not so lucky. As an adult, I know that stealing is not customary or appropriate. I didn't quite get that at age 11. So if I were 11 I'd side with the Attawapiskat band leaders. Edited January 8, 2013 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Sleipnir Posted January 8, 2013 Report Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) Do you mean the audit ? That still hasn't been released. Independent Auditor Report (short): http://www.aadnc-aan...4776386_eng.pdf This is the comprehensive audit report. Scroll to bottom of the article for the audit report. http://www.cbc.ca/ne...dit-monday.html 130 pages. Edited January 8, 2013 by Sleipnir Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
Michael Hardner Posted January 8, 2013 Report Posted January 8, 2013 Within days, a transistor birthday I received for my 11th birthday was stolen. You were indeed a privileged child. I could only dream of a transistor birthday at that age. There's a scene in Woody Allen's Annie Hall that reminds me of your story, though. FLASHBACK - INT. ALVY'S HOUSE. Alvy's father sits in his chair. His mother is polishing a door while Alvy lies on the floor playing. Annie, adult Alvy and Rob quietly walk into the scene to watch. ALVY'S FATHER You fired the cleaning woman? ALVY'S MOTHER She was stealing. ALVY'S FATHER But she's colored. ALVY'S MOTHER SO? ALVY'S FATHER So the colored have enough trouble. ALVY'S MOTHER She was going through my pocketbook! ALVY'S FATHER They're persecuted enough! ALVY'S MOTHER Who's persecuting? She stole! Alvy's father gets up and gets his hard hat. He sits back down and starts polishing it. ALVY'S FATHER All right-so we can afford it. ALVY'S MOTHER How can we afford it? On your pay? What if she steals more? ALVY'S FATHER She's a colored woman, from Harlem! She has no money! She's got a right to steal from us! After all, who is she gonna steal from if not us? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
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