First nations patiences waning

[jacee]

The past 'debts' were taken out by nobody alive today. That's not how debts work.

Yes it is.

http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100030285/1100100030289

To honour its obligations, Canada negotiates settlements with the First Nation and (where applicable) provincial and/or territorial governments.

Time to stop pretending that we can evade legal responsibility.

[jacee]

Same way chickenpox does.

I wonder who is paying their lawyers to bring claims that are at bottom frivolous.

You don't know that.

This is just prejudice.

[Guest Kenneth]

And that's the truth.

It's an interesting situation, conservation lands within city limits overpopulated by deer because there are no wildlife corridors out of them, surrounded by suburbia.

The city knows where it stands legally - ie that Six Nations does hold Aboriginal rights on that land under the Nanfan Treaty.

A two week hunt with bows and arrows is a reasonable resolution and a good example to other communities, a win-win.

Those municipalities that approach Aboriginal rights with a 'win-lose' mentality ... believing in error that 'we conquered them and they should just stay conquered' ... create and sustain unnecessary strife for their communities. Our legal reality is simply not what simple minds choose to believe it is.

There is no 'us-them'. There's just all of us and all of the laws that guide our relationships with each other.

Hell, my neighbour thinks his dog's butt owns the 8' strip of public alley behind my lot! I hope his dog's butt likes the thorny flowers I've planted! Lol

You see you don't even know what you're talking about. The conservation land isn't surrounded by "suburbia". The Indians were caught hunting within several hundred meters of a residential development, but the conservation area is far from being surrounded. There simply is no over-population, and the deer are not starving. Even if that was the case, the Indians have no right to be hunting on the land - nature should be allowed to take its course. Indians couldn't even reach their quota - so they asked for a longer hunt this time around. Did they reach their quota? Probably not.

Nanfan is always trotted out, but SN claims to have a right to hunt based on the Haldimand Proclamation - problem is, they were first caught hunting on land that's miles away from what they claim the supposed border of the HP bequeathed land. To the best of my knowledge they've never hunted of CA land within the old border, not that it would make any difference - they SOLD the land over 150 years ago.

Just think what would have happened had one of them been shot while trespassing. Yet Stan J. can murder someone who had been given permission to hunt on Six Nations and there's absolutely no outrage at all...

[jacee]

You see you don't even know what you're talking about. The conservation land isn't surrounded by "suburbia". The Indians were caught hunting within several hundred meters of a residential development, but the conservation area is far from being surrounded. There simply is no over-population, and the deer are not starving. Even if that was the case, the Indians have no right to be hunting on the land - nature should be allowed to take its course. Indians couldn't even reach their quota - so they asked for a longer hunt this time around. Did they reach their quota? Probably not.

Nanfan is always trotted out, but SN claims to have a right to hunt based on the Haldimand Proclamation - problem is, they were first caught hunting on land that's miles away from what they claim the supposed border of the HP bequeathed land. To the best of my knowledge they've never hunted of CA land within the old border, not that it would make any difference - they SOLD the land over 150 years ago.

Just think what would have happened had one of them been shot while trespassing. Yet Stan J. can murder someone who had been given permission to hunt on Six Nations and there's absolutely no outrage at all...

Apparently the powers-that-be and their lawyers disagree and have allowed the hunt.

Your 'us-them' approach isn't very constructive.

Respect for treaty rights is long overdue, and does mean some changes. I admire communities that manage to work out solutions like this.

Edited April 30, 2013 by jacee

[Guest Kenneth]

It's not a matter of whether they've allowed the hunt - but why. Intimidantion, threats of violence. Many of the people don't want the hunt to occur, but the police have made it clear that any demonstrators will be arrested. So it's okay for leftists and Indians to protest (ie. riot) but any average Canadian citizen who wants to openly oppose an illegal "hunt" (ie. CA approved poaching) will be arrested?

[jbg]

Simultaneously, new claims pop up all the time.

Same way chickenpox does.

I wonder who is paying their lawyers to bring claims that are at bottom frivolous.

You don't know that.

I don't know what?

This is just prejudice.

What is? Questioning who is paying lawyers whose claims, in any but the rarified and politically correct atmosphere of a university or the SCC would make normal people wild with laughter?

[jbg]

You see you don't even know what you're talking about. The conservation land isn't surrounded by "suburbia". The Indians were caught hunting within several hundred meters of a residential development, but the conservation area is far from being surrounded. There simply is no over-population, and the deer are not starving. Even if that was the case, the Indians have no right to be hunting on the land - nature should be allowed to take its course. Indians couldn't even reach their quota - so they asked for a longer hunt this time around. Did they reach their quota? Probably not.

I am no fan of frivolous litigation, including frivolous land claims. That being said if this area is anything like suburban New York the deer reach pestiferous numbers. Without wolves and cougars, nature can hardly "take its course."

I am not sure if I am crazy about hunting in thickly settled suburban areas. Maybe if the FN hunted with arrows it wouldn't be so bad. Especially if Spence gets to live in a longhouse with her charges and eat venison resulting from arrow kills.

Edited May 1, 2013 by jbg

[jacee]

I am no fan of frivolous litigation, including frivolous land claims. That being said if this area is anything like suburban New York the deer reach pestiferous numbers. Without wolves and cougars, nature can hardly "take its course."

I am not sure if I am crazy about hunting in thickly settled suburban areas. Maybe if the FN hunted with arrows it wouldn't be so bad.

They do.

Especially if Spence gets to live in a longhouse with her charges and eat venison resulting from arrow kills.

I think these vacuous personal attacks should stop. Edited May 1, 2013 by jacee

[guyser]

It's not a matter of whether they've allowed the hunt

It is according to you.

- but why. Intimidantion, threats of violence.

LOL.

The 'but why' is because the FN made a presentation to the Cons Auth and they said ok.

I imagine there were no guns pointed, knives sharpened or punches thrown in that meeting, but hey, maybe you were there and threats were made?

If you werent there (and we all know you werent) then we should rely on the Cons Auth manager who is on record as the whys of this.

But hey, dont let me derail your little agenda now.

[Guest Kenneth]

I am no fan of frivolous litigation, including frivolous land claims. That being said if this area is anything like suburban New York the deer reach pestiferous numbers. Without wolves and cougars, nature can hardly "take its course."

I am not sure if I am crazy about hunting in thickly settled suburban areas. Maybe if the FN hunted with arrows it wouldn't be so bad. Especially if Spence gets to live in a longhouse with her charges and eat venison resulting from arrow kills.

Bow hunting makes no real difference. People were using CA land not knowing these Indians were hunting there. The CA confronted Six Nations - but quickly backed down and started excluding people from visiting certain parts of the valley.

Here is a picture of some of them showing up to the hunt. Another example of Indians claiming to adhere to their traditions - just not in a traditional manner.

[guyser]

...and started excluding people from visiting certain parts of the valley.

Good thing too. Liability issue. Municipalities cant afford anymore hits.

[Guest Kenneth]

Yeah, and it's things like this that will make people more supportive of residential development on the land. What's the point of maintaining greenspaces when thugs and goons are going to come along and ruin it for the rest of us. If you build houses on the land then people have a place to live and their gardens are probably going to be more ecofriendly than what currently exists.

[jbg]

Especially if Spence gets to live in a longhouse with her charges and eat venison resulting from arrow kills.

I think these vacuous personal attacks should stop.

Venison is gourmet food in my neck of the "woods," easily the most expensive item on the few restaurant menus that have it. Why is it an attack on Ms. Spence to suggest that she live the same way as her victims charges.

[jbg]

Bow hunting makes no real difference. People were using CA land not knowing these Indians were hunting there. The CA confronted Six Nations - but quickly backed down and started excluding people from visiting certain parts of the valley.

Here is a picture of some of them showing up to the hunt. Another example of Indians claiming to adhere to their traditions - just not in a traditional manner.

The obvious point is that if I live in a thickly settled area I don't want bullets flying around. Arrows can be used more selectively.

I have no problem if the FN's want to "go traditional."

[jacee]

Venison is gourmet food in my neck of the "woods," easily the most expensive item on the few restaurant menus that have it. Why is it an attack on Ms. Spence to suggest that she live the same way as her victims charges.

Why is it even a comment at all as Spence isn't Six Nations, more than a thousand km away.

[jacee]

Yeah, and it's things like this that will make people more supportive of residential development on the land. What's the point of maintaining greenspaces when thugs and goons are going to come along and ruin it for the rest of us. If you build houses on the land then people have a place to live and their gardens are probably going to be more ecofriendly than what currently exists.

Enough with the insults.

Your prejudices are what ruins it for the rest of us.

Your agenda bears no resemblance to thoughtful discussion.

[guyser]

Yeah, and it's things like this that will make people more supportive of residential development on the land.

Huh? Others want to hunt , like from their back porch or something?

What's the point of maintaining greenspaces when thugs and goons are going to come along and ruin it for the rest

Why would you go an ruin it for the rest of Hamilton? Keep your thugs and goons at home.

[PIK]

I am no fan of frivolous litigation, including frivolous land claims. That being said if this area is anything like suburban New York the deer reach pestiferous numbers. Without wolves and cougars, nature can hardly "take its course."

I am not sure if I am crazy about hunting in thickly settled suburban areas. Maybe if the FN hunted with arrows it wouldn't be so bad. Especially if Spence gets to live in a longhouse with her charges and eat venison resulting from arrow kills.

They want to live the traditional way of life, then get rid of the guns and the nets and the 4 wheelers. And then they can rape and pilliage the other tribes , just like the old days before the white man came. Go to napanee during the pickeral spawning and see what they do. They will destroy nature very quickly. They have no right to call themselves protectors of the lands. I have seen them in action.

[Fletch 27]

I have seen that too! They "harvested" well over 1000 Pickerel when I was there simply for the Pickerel cheeks! They threw the carcases away because the water was too warm hat year! They then sell the pickerel cheeks to tourists for an arm and a leg! They are tasty I must say but a shame for the waste of the fish..

They want to live the traditional way of life, then get rid of the guns and the nets and the 4 wheelers. And then they can rape and pilliage the other tribes , just like the old days before the white man came. Go to napanee during the pickeral spawning and see what they do. They will destroy nature very quickly. They have no right to call themselves protectors of the lands. I have seen them in action.

[jbg]

They have no right to call themselves protectors of the lands. I have seen them in action.

What a shock.

[jacee]

Prince Rupert First Nations Band Rejects $1 Billion In 1st Stage Of LNG Vote

Too much was at stake to wipe out a whole river," said the father of eight and grandfather of 20. He described the atmosphere at the meeting, where both proponents and the band council made presentations, as "very tense."

Luanne Roth of the T. Buck Suzuki Foundation said an estimated 60 per cent of the Skeena estuary's eel grass is located immediately off Lelu Island, which she described as critical salmon habitat.

"It's in the worst place they could have chosen in the whole north coast," she said of the proposed LNG site.