Topaz Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 I came across this article or view point on Quebec and Harper and I wonder what others thought about its view. I not sure were I stand on the article but it does make some good points. Also, the fourth comments after the articles also makes a good point that the NDP have said several times in the House with what Harper has given to the Chinese now and in the future. So I guess the question is, will Harper help Quebec leave Canada? He may if HE wanted Alberta to follow and it seem Albertians agree with whatever Harper wants. http://cornwallfreenews.com/2012/12/does-stephen-harper-want-quebec-out-of-canada-by-jamie-gilcig-december-5-2012/ Quote
Fletch 27 Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 I dont think he wants Quebec gone. I think he wants Quebec to step in line with the rest of Canada and pull thier own weight. Just like with an ugly un-disciplined child... You dont abandon it... you discipline it... Quote
g_bambino Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 So I guess the question is, will Harper help Quebec leave Canada? Refusing to beg and plead with sovereigntists to stay or to capitulate to their every demand in order to appease them is not the same as wanting them to achieve their goals. He may if HE wanted Alberta to follow and it seem Albertians agree with whatever Harper wants. So much ludicrousness in one sentence; it's almost impressive. Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted December 7, 2012 Report Posted December 7, 2012 There are damned few folks in Alberta in favour of separation, I should know because I am one of the few. Quote
jbg Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 I dont think he wants Quebec gone. I think he wants Quebec to step in line with the rest of Canada and pull thier own weight. Just like with an ugly un-disciplined child... You dont abandon it... you discipline it... Parents have the obligation to discipline and not to abandon. Most kids who throw repeated tantrums are rejected by their peers. That is a far better analogy. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
kward Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 I wouldn't mind seeing Quebec become its own nation, nor would I mind Alberta doing the same. Quote
Moonbox Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 Funny how your first post on this board is one as dumb as that. Hope that's not what we're to expect from you here. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Keepitsimple Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 The Conservatives are actually Quebec's friend. Whereas the Chretien government was ridiculed by the bloc as being paternalistic with a "Father Knows Best" attitude - an attitude that had little respect for Provincial areas of responsibility - Harper is quite clear about Provincial responsibilities and he will NOT intrude. The difference is that Harper will also not PANDER to Quebec to try and buy their votes. We may be in for a big surprise. Quebecers are not dumb....if they see the potential for another Conservative majority, they may very well start to shift their votes in order to have some influence WITHIN the government. Look for more Conservative Quebec seats in the next election. Quote Back to Basics
-TSS- Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 If any Canadian PM wanted Quebec to secede he wouldn't admit it in public. Quote
Moonbox Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 Look for more Conservative Quebec seats in the next election. NOPE. I'll bet good money on that. It's a wasteland for the Conservatives, and will continue to be. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Smallc Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 I think I actually agree with simple. The NDP stole seats from the Conservatives in Quebec. That probably won't happen next time. Don't forget that at one time, the Conservatives had 11 seats there. Quote
Moonbox Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 The NDP will keep most of their seats in Quebec. If the Conservatives make any gains in Quebec, they'll be retaking the odd seat they previously held. There will be no surprising reversals of Tory fortunes in Quebec. I've discussed this in other threads, but I think Quebec is going to be left isolated in Canadian politics for a long time unless they can smarten up. The sad protest mentality they've exhibited for the last 20 years will continue to get them nowhere, and, as we saw in the 2011 election, will actually polarize the RoC against them. The NDP surge in Quebec, as we saw, was accompanied by a Liberal rout and a surge in Tory popularity in Ontario. I think that had less to do with Ignatieff and more to do with Canadians just wanting a majority and not having to deal with an NDP opposition. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
-TSS- Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 What exactly is the BQ-policy this time around? Do they still want to keep the Canadian dollar and the Queen as the Head of State? Quote
Smallc Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 The NDP will keep most of their seats in Quebec. If the Conservatives make any gains in Quebec, they'll be retaking the odd seat they previously held. There will be no surprising reversals of Tory fortunes in Quebec. I'm just saying that they could probably double their count in Quebec without much trouble. I would not at all be surprised to see the Liberals steal back Montreal, and the Conservatives Quebec City from the NDP. Quote
jbg Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 I wouldn't mind seeing Quebec become its own nation, nor would I mind Alberta doing the same. Then your city would be in two countries? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Guest Peeves Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 What exactly is the BQ-policy this time around? Do they still want to keep the Canadian dollar and the Queen as the Head of State? a little typo there...Queen as the head on a stick.. Quote
kward Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 Funny how your first post on this board is one as dumb as that. Hope that's not what we're to expect from you here. What's dumb about it? Quote
kward Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 The NDP will keep most of their seats in Quebec. If the Conservatives make any gains in Quebec, they'll be retaking the odd seat they previously held. There will be no surprising reversals of Tory fortunes in Quebec. I've discussed this in other threads, but I think Quebec is going to be left isolated in Canadian politics for a long time unless they can smarten up. The sad protest mentality they've exhibited for the last 20 years will continue to get them nowhere, and, as we saw in the 2011 election, will actually polarize the RoC against them. The NDP surge in Quebec, as we saw, was accompanied by a Liberal rout and a surge in Tory popularity in Ontario. I think that had less to do with Ignatieff and more to do with Canadians just wanting a majority and not having to deal with an NDP opposition. The "sad protest mentality" is a language dispute that, you're right, isn't going to get them anywhere - by virtue of the fact that they'll always be outnumbered. If the francophones in Quebec are serious about their concerns federally, and they get a consensus within that province, the feds should step out of the way and let them declare independence. Quote
kward Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 Then your city would be in two countries? And? Quote
Moonbox Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 (edited) What's dumb about it? About Quebec and Alberta as independent countries? Well it's economic suicide for Quebec, and beyond that I don't need to go further. As for Alberta, that breaks up Canada's contiguency (sp?) leaving British Columbia isolated, as well as leaving Alberta a tiny, land-locked state entirely dependent on oil to sustain its economy. Those are just a couple of reasons, but you can stew on those and maybe if you think hard you can come up with some others. If the francophones in Quebec are serious about their concerns federally, and they get a consensus within that province, the feds should step out of the way and let them declare independence. They're not. They don't want independence, and neither do most Albertans. Edited December 8, 2012 by Moonbox Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
kward Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 About Quebec and Alberta as independent countries? Well it's economic suicide for Quebec, and beyond that I don't need to go further. As for Alberta, that breaks up Canada's contiguency (sp?) leaving British Columbia isolated, as well as leaving Alberta a tiny, land-locked state entirely dependent on oil to sustain its economy. Those are just a couple of reasons, but you can stew on those and maybe if you think hard you can come up with some others. 1. Yes, it may be economic suicide for Quebec. But in the face of that, if they want to try it - I have no problem letting them do it. Maybe it would work out for both parties economically. Probably not, but let's not waste money on a language dispute that never ends. Let them put their money where their mouth is, and if they have to come crawling back...so be it. If they make it...great, let's cut some deals and be economic partners. 2. As for Alberta...see number one and replace "language" with "economic". They're not. They don't want independence, and neither do most Albertans. Some of "they" don't. Then again, some of them do. If "most" of them don't, then the nationalists have nothing to worry about. My point is, the worry exists, and it's silly. Quote
jbg Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 2. As for Alberta...see number one and replace "language" with "economic". Except it's the ROC (rest of Canada other than Alberta) that has a problem, not Alberta. Unless Saskatchewan and Newfoundland & Labrador get very lucky. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
kward Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 Except it's the ROC (rest of Canada other than Alberta) that has a problem, not Alberta. Unless Saskatchewan and Newfoundland & Labrador get very lucky. Okay, that's fine. Point is, whomever wants to leave whom, no need to get in the way strictly out of fear or knee-jerk. But, yes, I realize the odds of any of the above happening is slim to none - I'm advocating keeping an open mind - especially if there's a buck to be made. Quote
Smallc Posted December 8, 2012 Report Posted December 8, 2012 Except it's the ROC (rest of Canada other than Alberta) that has a problem, not Alberta. Really, no, I don't see how that is. Quote
jbg Posted December 9, 2012 Report Posted December 9, 2012 Really, no, I don't see how that is. Alberta's exports do wonders for Canada's balance of payments. Manitoba's, PEI's, Nova Scotia's and BC's, not so much. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
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