F-35 Purchase Cancelled; CF-18 replacement process begins

[Guest Derek L]

I'll say again, Derek L... put the numbers up. Initial procurement numbers for the respective U.S. military branches and JSFail partner countries, versus actual commitments... real commitments. And, as I've challenged you before, put those real numbers up against target production dates that will realize the propaganda costs you claim. It's a long road for you to get from ~60 production planes (total, across all LRIP) to... to... to... what? What's the monthly production number needed to make those propaganda orders fit those propaganda targets... based on reduced procurement or no outright commitments. Do the math, hey?

Since you refuse to expound upon your statement, let us get right down, what is the current price, as per the contract signing from a few months prior, of a LRIP 7 F-35A………Contrasted with the Canadian Governments budgeted allotment for the F-35A?

No propaganda, just two figures......Come on now, you've got that in you...play along Waldo, I'm getting bored of you.

[Guest Derek L]

BS! Bunk... I've never put up anything technical from Wheeler. Again, it's always been to what I interpret as his strengths... his time within the GOA. You know, those GAO reports Wheeler regularly references... those GAO reports you would have absolutely nothing to do with.

I never said you did in this most recent exchange over the last few days........but you did appear to lend a hand to another poster that linked to a Wheeler drive-by from Vanity Affair...

[waldo]

I never said you did in this most recent exchange over the last few days........but you did appear to lend a hand to another poster that linked to a Wheeler drive-by from Vanity Affair...

why not read it again... then come back and correct yourself

[bush_cheney2004]

...It's a long road for you to get from ~60 production planes (total, across all LRIP) to... to... to... what? What's the monthly production number needed to make those propaganda orders fit those propaganda targets... based on reduced procurement or no outright commitments. Do the math, hey?

No it's not...clearly you still do not understand how the program is structured or even what "LRIP" means. Let us help you (again):

http://www.targetlock.org.uk/f-35/production.html

Edited October 21, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

Since you refuse to expound upon your statement, let us get right down, what is the current price, as per the contract signing from a few months prior, of a LRIP 7 F-35A………Contrasted with the Canadian Governments budgeted allotment for the F-35A?

No propaganda, just two figures......Come on now, you've got that in you...play along Waldo, I'm getting bored of you.

is this where I throw down one of your

Already been provided.......

I have no clue what you suggest I'm "refusing to expound upon". Are you drinking this evening? Point in fact is you refuse to bring forward procurement numbers, initial versus actual. You refuse to attach those procurement numbers to any kind of a schedule. Of course you refuse! Real numbers and schedules get in the way of your cheer-leading!

You really should bring updated costs to the table... why... I do believe Wheeler (for one of many) has considerable insight to offer on those LockMart propaganda costs you're so enamored with!

[Guest Derek L]

why not read it again... then come back and correct yourself

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/22051-f-35-purchase-cancelled/page-87

in this particular case, this threads principal F-35 cheer-leader has a long-standing history of berating the individual... while taking pains to selectively ignore many challenges brought forward that quote specific statements/claims made by Wheeler. He's most selective in his cheer-leading!

And

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/22051-f-35-purchase-cancelled/page-89

keep it... I certainly have no desire to follow your anti-war opinon/stance adhom! Like I said, you repeatedly ran away whenever I provided you an opportunity to challenge a Wheeler statement as pertained to U.S. GAO reports. Clearly, you're more at ease with adhom - go with your strengths, hey!

And my retort:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/22051-f-35-purchase-cancelled/page-88

Of course Mr Wheelers equation of the F-35 to that of civil aviation within the United States is intellectually dishonest, fore the F-35 (like all military aircraft) is not governed by FAA guidelines, nor certification processes …….

[Guest Derek L]

is this where I throw down one of your

I have no clue what you suggest I'm "refusing to expound upon". Are you drinking this evening? Point in fact is you refuse to bring forward procurement numbers, initial versus actual. You refuse to attach those procurement numbers to any kind of a schedule. Of course you refuse! Real numbers and schedules get in the way of your cheer-leading!

You really should bring updated costs to the table... why... I do believe Wheeler (for one of many) has considerable insight to offer on those LockMart propaganda costs you're so enamored with!

Like I said…….already provided

Lucky for you, member BC2004 provided them for you yet again in post #1329

[Guest Derek L]

No it's not...clearly you still do not understand how the program is structured or even what "LRIP" means. Let us help you (again):

http://www.targetlock.org.uk/f-35/production.html

I think the member is one of those that will be left behind

[waldo]

Lucky for you, member BC2004 provided them for you yet again in post #1329

sorry - I have that particular member on ignore

[waldo]

And

And my retort:

put your bottle away! None of what you just quoted has any bearing/relation to the prior post.

[Guest Derek L]

sorry - I have that particular member on ignore

Well in the case, and since it obvious that you refuse to bring forth the two requested figures:

https://www.f35.com/news/detail/lrip-6-7-contract-agreements

From the LRIP 7 contract agreement:

· 24 F-35As CTOL - $98 million/jet

· 7 F-35B STOVL - $104 million/jet

· 4 F-35C CV - $116 million/jet

The above deal signed last month

And the figure from the Independent review from nearly a year ago:

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/reports-rapports/ngfc-cng/irlc-eiccv/irlc-eiccv03-eng.asp#ToC3422

Based on the currently projected order profile for Canada and JSF Program Office unit costs, the weighted average US price is approximately $87.4 million USD in Budget Year. This weighted average unit cost of the F-35 is reflective of a confidence level of approximately 50%See footnote¹⁰, which is typical of a baseline estimate.

The difference between this years actual price and last years projected estimate for full production, flyaway aircraft is now about ~$11 million a tail..........

[waldo]

I just now recall your last puffery on this... you beat your chest while pushing a number... not realizing it didn't include an engine. Do your latest propaganda numbers includes engines?

[waldo]

Well in the case, and since it obvious that you refuse

yes, your refusal is front and center! You refuse to provide a comparative review of initial procurement commitments to actual numbers... actual numbers! Of course, I anticipate your, "but no country has left" squawk!

[Guest Derek L]

yes, your refusal is front and center! You refuse to provide a comparative review of initial procurement commitments to actual numbers... actual numbers! Of course, I anticipate your, "but no country has left" squawk!

Two posts up.........square that circle now...........

[Guest Derek L]

I just now recall your last puffery on this... you beat your chest while pushing a number... not realizing it didn't include an engine. Do your latest propaganda numbers includes engines?

LRIP 7 no, the 2012 figure yes........Have you not read the NGFC project review? Oh myyyyyy

[waldo]

I just now recall your last puffery on this... you beat your chest while pushing a number... not realizing it didn't include an engine. Do your latest propaganda numbers includes engines?

yes! The crack waldo research team does confirm LRIP6/7 costs do not... do not... include the cost of engines! Those costs are separate, as separate contracts between the U.S. government and Pratt & Whitney. So yes, you've now doubled down... you've done it twice (that I'm aware of). You've trotted out costs and presumed to compare them to Harper Conservative numbers... you just haven't been forthright enough to state your numbers don't include engines! Whaaa!

[waldo]

Two posts up.........square that circle now...........

nice avoidance... nice refusal! Clearly, again, you want nothing to do with actual procurement numbers aligned with a schedule.

[Guest Derek L]

yes! The crack waldo research team does confirm LRIP6/7 costs do not... do not... include the cost of engines! Those costs are separate, as separate contracts between the U.S. government and Pratt & Whitney. So yes, you've now doubled down... you've done it twice (that I'm aware of). You've trotted out costs and presumed to compare them to Harper Conservative numbers... you just haven't been forthright enough to state your numbers don't include engines! Whaaa!

It says as much in the links provided.............crack team you've got there

As I asked, did not you and your team read the NGFC site?

[Guest Derek L]

nice avoidance... nice refusal! Clearly, again, you want nothing to do with actual procurement numbers aligned with a schedule.

The schedule was outlined in the above link provided by the member that you and your team ignore

[waldo]

It says as much in the links provided.............crack team you've got there

no - you put up numbers... unqualified numbers. You then proceeded to compare them. No where did you say anything about engines... engine cost. As is typical with your cavalier way with truth/accuracy, you now claim engines/engine costs were available - cause, apparently, they're buried somewhere deep, deep, down within the bowels of a link you provided!

As I asked, did not you and your team read the NGFC site?

NGFC??? Don't tell me things are so bad for your wet dream that they've had to resort to crowd-sourcing!

.

Edited October 21, 2013 by waldo

[waldo]

The schedule was outlined in the above link provided by the member that you and your team ignore

again, another of your avoidance's, another of your refusals! Speaking of team ignore... since I don't have the capability to add to a certain members status update, let me welcome you back after your 2-month hiatus. I've just now noted your whining claim to why you were so summarily dispatched from the board. As I recall, it had nothing to do with Monty Python videos... are you sure it wasn't your string of posts within the Snowden thread. That's quite the treasure trove of misguided thought you laid down there - you should be so proud!

[Guest Derek L]

no - you put up numbers... unqualified numbers. You then proceeded to compare them. No where did you say anything about engines... engine cost. As is typical with your cavalier way with truth/accuracy, you now claim engines/engine costs were available - cause, apparently, they're buried somewhere deep, deep, down within the bowels of a link you provided!

How are they unqualified? As per the NGFC, or eve similar contracts & programs outlined by the other partners, engines, spares, training aides etc are sold separately……..This is not only so with the F-35, but all similar contracts, I seem to recall earlier this year us going over this when you claimed a per price from Boeing for Super Hornets devoid of engines, EW and target pods and like.

[Guest Derek L]

again, another of your avoidance's, another of your refusals! Speaking of team ignore... since I don't have the capability to add to a certain members status update, let me welcome you back after your 2-month hiatus. I've just now noted your whining claim to why you were so summarily dispatched from the board. As I recall, it had nothing to do with Monty Python videos... are you sure it wasn't your string of posts within the Snowden thread. That's quite the treasure trove of misguided thought you laid down there - you should be so proud!

I don't know what you're talking about in relation to the Snowden thread?

The message per CA:

Warning issued by Charles Anthony for off-topic / thread-jacking in Profile.

Given 1 points.

Ability to create content removed for 59 days.

HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO BE TOLD???

Your posting privileges have been suspended AGAIN but this time for 2 months due to REPEATED posting of images which clutter the online forum.

The Monty Python video is clutter.

Ch. A.

I'm not whining per-say, it is after all someone else site, but I found it "harsh" when compared to what others post as a matter of opinion......None the less, I fail to see what this has to do with the F-35?

[bleeding heart]

I agree (as an outsider, uninvolved) that it sounds harsh...but it's pretty plain from the missive that the MP video is not exactly what got you suspended, as you claim. It sounds more like a last straw sort of situation. In fact, that point is emphasized.

[Guest Derek L]

I agree (as an outsider, uninvolved) that it sounds harsh...but it's pretty plain from the missive that the MP video is not exactly what got you suspended, as you claim. It sounds more like a last straw sort of situation. In fact, that point is emphasized.

Indeed, the day prior I got a Warning for this:

Please keep the language clean. Comments like this:

Derek L, on 17 Aug 2013 - 11:01 PM, said:

Absolute bullshit.

only bring down the quality of discussion.

Ch. A.

And then back in May I get a month for posting a pic of Admiral Ackbar (I forget which thread) and had got a warning April for:

Warning issued by Charles Anthony for off-topic / thread-jacking in Profile.

Given 1 points.

Stop posting things that are off-topic to a discussion.

Posting about guns in a discussion about bomb attacks is unacceptable in this forum.

Ch. A.

There you be, so clearly posting the Monty Python clip got me tossed........but as I said, I fail to see what this has to do with the F-35.....