F-35 Purchase Cancelled; CF-18 replacement process begins

[Derek 2.0]

Getting redundant. Upgraded is of course different.

It is redundant…….so do you now acknowledge the Hornet and Super Hornet share little similarities?

The software for the stealth appears to have been compromised.

What "software" is that? And what faucet of the F-35 has been compromised?

Ands we don't need it because we ain't planning on attacking anyone that I know of.

In the 1970s, during our then fighter competition, do you think our Government planned on conducting interdiction missions in the Persian Gulf, FRY and Libya decades later?

As I said, legacy F 18's have been operating in cold forever.

But you suggested we purchase the Super Hornet......So what is the Super Hornet's record in the cold?

I can't make my comment on s/e vs m/e engine any clearer than I already have 2 is better than 1, ya know, just like heads.

Yet, as provided earlier, the single engine F-16 has the greatest safety record in the USAF.......So just to make this clear, you feel those that fly the Falcon feel unsafe due to it’s single engine? Is that what you're saying?

Edited July 1, 2014 by Derek 2.0

[Derek 2.0]

....it's been said over and over.

Exactly......It’s apparent how easy this ones points are to refute.

[On Guard for Thee]

It is redundant…….so do you now acknowledge the Hornet and Super Hornet share little similarities?

What "software" is that? And what faucet of the F-35 has been compromised?

In the 1970s, during our then fighter competition, do you think our Government planned on conducting interdiction missions in the Persian Gulf, FRY and Libya decades later?

But you suggested we purchase the Super Hornet......So what is the Super Hornet's record in the cold?

Yet, as provided earlier, the single engine F-16 has the greatest safety record in the USAF.......So just to make this clear, you feel those that fly the Falcon feel unsafe due to it’s single engine? Is that what you're saying?

I can't really make it any clearer. Multi engines provides a reassurance that maybe you have to be a pilot to grasp. Especially when the one they have in the F 35 tends to have thermal creep which causes blades to deteriorate which leads toa loud bang followed by deafening silence.

[On Guard for Thee]

Exactly......It’s apparent how easy this ones points are to refute.

One of many

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/28/new-u-s-stealth-jet-can-t-hide-from-russian-radar.html#url=http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2014/06/23/my-decade-your-decade.html

[hakari]

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On 6th January 2014, The Pearson Centre in Soran university began its work on taking the academic English language exam, PTE.

Ninos Furat the administrator of Pearson centre in Soran university states that, "Pearson exam is a universally accepted exam and it is a standard exam which is accepted in the most of the universities around the world including Britain , Australia, Canada and a large number of American universities. Students can use the certification of this exam for gaining an offer in the universities , it can also be used for obtaining visa.

................................

http://www.soran.edu.iq

[Derek 2.0]

I can't really make it any clearer. Multi engines provides a reassurance that maybe you have to be a pilot to grasp. Especially when the one they have in the F 35 tends to have thermal creep which causes blades to deteriorate which leads toa loud bang followed by deafening silence.

So you’re stating univocally F-16 pilots feel unsure in flying their aircraft due to it’s single engine design….I don’t suppose you have a proof to support such a claim?

[Derek 2.0]

One of many

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/28/new-u-s-stealth-jet-can-t-hide-from-russian-radar.html#url=http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2014/06/23/my-decade-your-decade.html

I don’t suppose you realize that UHF/VHF radar has been around for decades? And that there have been effective countermeasures to it since the 1960s? Or that that such frequencies can’t be used to target weapons right? And of course, both the Russians and Chinese, despite their claims, are still developing their own stealth aircraft right?

Edited July 1, 2014 by Derek 2.0

[Moonbox]

One thing that I find kind of funny is how people are knocking the F-35's single engine and then slamming its price at the same time, or even worse, saying the Gripen could be an alternative. That's funny.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Moonbox

[Derek 2.0]

One thing that I find kind of funny is how people are knocking the F-35's single engine and then slamming its price at the same time, or even worse, saying the Gripen could be an alternative. That's funny.

Or pointing to the Super Hornet as a "cheaper" alternative, when the USN (in 2013) was paying 70+ million a copy...........Or the resident "expert" that's suggests any pilot would be uncomfortable with a single engine type….I wonder, of those that flew the 4000+ single engine F-16s, how many felt uncomfortable?

[GostHacked]

One thing that I find kind of funny is how people are knocking the F-35's single engine and then slamming its price at the same time, or even worse, saying the Gripen could be an alternative. That's funny.

The Grippen already has an established service record. The Swedes know what they are doing.

[Moonbox]

The Grippen already has an established service record. The Swedes know what they are doing.

Sure, but it still has a single engine, so you can't complain about that feature on the F-35 and then go on to support the Gripen.

[Rue]

Derek with due respect manouverability is crucial with interception and no an F35 is not an interceptor no matter how the spin goes. Its a low ground attack craft and bomber exactly what Canada does not need.No we do not need to attack on the ground we need to patrol large distances. The speed of the Gripen and its superior ability to carry more variable arms makes it quite capable of doing work with NATO. No one in NATO has knocked this jet. No one.

Israel needs a low flying attack craft that detects radars Canada does not.Such craft may be useful coming off a carrier in a surprise attack but for Nortehrn patrol, uh no. Yes I have read the stats.

I have yet to see anyone say an F35 is a faster or more manouverable interceptor.

No I like the Superhornet as well, but from what I can see the Gripen is more cost effective and would be less to maintain and stay in the air longer.

[Derek 2.0]

The Grippen already has an established service record. The Swedes know what they are doing.

The 80s era Gripen does have an established record........but Saab is marketing the Gripen NG, which doesn't.........And of course, it's not cheap , when based on the proposed Swiss deal, would have seen a per plane price over 110 million.......a production price tag more then the Super Hornet and F-35.

[Rue]

Bush the F16 is a great craft you won't get an argument from me on that. The fact that it was orderedmore than a Gripen does not mean the Gripen can't do the job for Canada. It means the lobby and support network behind the Gripen pales in comparsion with the industrial network behind the F16.

The F16 is a superior craft yes of course but it also has superior connections in terms of procurement.No one has the extensive network the F16 has.

My argument is Canada is not a super power. We never were.In fact we have shirked our responsibilities and depended heavily on the US. The best way to do our share of patrol is to use a craft we can have more of and be able to maintain. A costly cash cow sitting on the ground we can't afford to maintain let alone arm makes no sense.

As I said earlier lets not kid ourselves. Canada does not nee a ground attack bomber. It never did and never will. It needs a long range interceptor. The Gripen is compatible with all Norad weapons systems and can use F18 stockpiles we will have left over.

You want to send a proper fighter, it would have to be the F22 Raptor and you know damn well the US won't export them. They need them for their tactical advantage.

I have nothing against the F16 or even F15 and I think the Super Hornet is an option, but I lean to the Gripen because contrary to what Derek said it was designed precisely for the mission we want it to and does in Sweden and that is to do longr range parolling of its North .Its designed unlike the F35 to land on a road in the event of emergencies and can land in very small strips on ice and snow which an F35 can not.

We are not in the business of blowing up people on the ground. We can not send bombers overseas. We can be used as support patrol craft in Europe or as a very good long range patrol craft. Any heavy air war is not something we can win. We don't have the money for it.

There will no no air war in Canada. What we have to do is show our flag to foreign navies and ships up North.

I am also of the opinion while the F35A is supposed to replace the F16 its no F16. its not a manouverable. Its slow and the stealth technology only works if doesn't carry the ammunitions load the Gripen does and even with its tanks and external weapons they are not up to date and tested as is the Gripen NG weapons system and it requires costly weapons we can not afford and are not planned for in our budget.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Rue

[monty16]

Haven't done what for years?

Good work! I think we're learning a truth that a few people have been wondering about for a while.

[Derek 2.0]

Derek with due respect manouverability is crucial with interception and no an F35 is not an interceptor no matter how the spin goes. Its a low ground attack craft and bomber exactly what Canada does not need.No we do not need to attack on the ground we need to patrol large distances. The speed of the Gripen and its superior ability to carry more variable arms makes it quite capable of doing work with NATO. No one in NATO has knocked this jet. No one.

When carrying external stores, the Gripen is neither fast nor manoeuvrable……..as to patrol “long distances”, as already mentioned, the F-35 surpasses the range of the Gripen......

Israel needs a low flying attack craft that detects radars Canada does not.Such craft may be useful coming off a carrier in a surprise attack but for Nortehrn patrol, uh no. Yes I have read the stats.

With all due respect, you don't understand the "stats".

I have yet to see anyone say an F35 is a faster or more manouverable interceptor.

That’s because it’s not……the last purpose built, Western interceptors were the F-14 and the Tornado ADV…….both are no longer in use by Western Forces, and both were replaced with multirole aircraft, not a follow on interceptor.

No I like the Superhornet as well, but from what I can see the Gripen is more cost effective and would be less to maintain and stay in the air longer.

The Gripen NG costs more than the Super Hornet.......

[Rue]

The Dutch in 2012 and 2010 tabled majority motions to cancel the F35 and have reserved the right to pull out.

Its doubtful Holland has the money or will to purchase the 85 it said it would order.

Likewise Italy announced in 2014 it was cutting its order as it could no longer afford to purchase the amount it said it would.

One by one the nations who said they would buy the craft are getting old feet and cutting their orders down meaning the cost determined based on anticipating large demand that would lower the price is no longer the case.

[Derek 2.0]

The Dutch in 2012 and 2010 tabled majority motions to cancel the F35 and have reserved the right to pull out.

Its doubtful Holland has the money or will to purchase the 85 it said it would order.

Likewise Italy announced in 2014 it was cutting its order as it could no longer afford to purchase the amount it said it would.

One by one the nations who said they would buy the craft are getting old feet and cutting their orders down meaning the cost determined based on anticipating large demand that would lower the price is no longer the case.

Both the Dutch and Italians haven’t left the program, and their reductions are more reaction to wholesale defence cuts imposed after/during the world economic crisis.

[GostHacked]

Sure, but it still has a single engine, so you can't complain about that feature on the F-35 and then go on to support the Gripen.

Why not? I would still rather have twin engine craft. But if you want comparisons, then the Grippen is a good candidate.

[Rue]

With due respect Derek and people can look up the specs themselves for both craft the F35 is slower, carries less equipment and the equipment on the Gripen NG is already tested. Its upgrades have been tested. The Gripen does not cost more than the Superhornet, That is just not true. People can look up the cost of of them the Typhoon, the Superhornet,the F35, the Gripen,t he Rafale, and see for themselves.

[Derek 2.0]

Why not? I would still rather have twin engine craft. But if you want comparisons, then the Grippen is a good candidate.

Why do you say that? The Gripen's range and price tag oppose such a notion.

[Derek 2.0]

With due respect Derek and people can look up the specs themselves for both craft the F35 is slower, carries less equipment and the equipment on the Gripen NG is already tested. Its upgrades have been tested. The Gripen does not cost more than the Superhornet, That is just not true. People can look up the cost of of them the Typhoon, the Superhornet,the F35, the Gripen,t he Rafale, and see for themselves.

I provided the link to the now canceled Swiss deal that highlighted the actual price of the Gripen NG.......get new sources.

[Rue]

Derek the Dutch and Italians issued clear statements they are reserving the right to drop out entirely and you are rights its all about expenses.

Look I do not doubt there are those who love the F35 as a stealth bomber and low ceiling ground attacker. it has many fans. I am sure if money was no object many more would be on the bandwagon but that is the point Derek cost. Its not about cost because to argue its not is just not the case.

[GostHacked]

Why do you say that? The Gripen's range and price tag oppose such a notion.

Apparently so does the F-35. The Grippen is flying, like the Typhoon, Rafael, Euro Fighter, Super Hornet. All have established records, unlike the F-35. Which we still have yet to acquire, so a Sopwith Camel is currently better than an F-35.

[Derek 2.0]

Derek the Dutch and Italians issued clear statements they are reserving the right to drop out entirely and you are rights its all about expenses.

All members can drop out of the program at any time.........yet not one single partner has.