Israeli Settlement in East Jerusalem

[cybercoma]

Earlier this week, the UK and France both threatened (I'm not sure if they actually did) to pull their ambassadors from Israel over settlements in East Jerusalem.

Finally, Harper has issued a warning to Netanyahu that Canada does not support these settlements. Kudos to him.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-sends-warning-to-israel-over-settlement-plans/article6016546/

This is in marked contrast to the threatening tone Palestine received from Baird during the UN vote to give Palestine observer-state status.

[DogOnPorch]

History of Jerusalem...brush-up time for all.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&site=webhp&source=hp&q=jerusalem+history&oq=jerusalem+history&gs_l=hp.3..0l10.1722.8490.0.8967.17.13.0.4.4.0.82.882.13.13.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.Yuz__LoDgOA

[Guest American Woman]

Regarding Israel's decision to build housing on the E1 corridor, yes, it's been condemned by the world, yet I think there's something to this -

As for the countries of the world who say Israel threatens the peace – where were you two weeks ago when I ran with my children to our bomb shelter? Why did my son have to leave his wife to protect Israel’s south from a thousand rockets?

It is too late now to tell us of peace – speak to Hamas first. You support a Palestinian state? Clearly you do – but it is Israel that must live with it and so we shall – if we have to. We will build and the world will scream. But we have learned that the world screams easily for that which is so minor and ignores that which really matters. Dozens died today in Syria as they did yesterday and as they will tomorrow – but yes, certainly, let’s discuss a barren hill across from my back yard.

-

Paula Stern

I think this bears repeating: "It is Israel that must live with it." That is so true, and I think it's too easily ignored, forgotten, or outright overlooked by those of us not directly involved/affected.

This, too, bears repeating: "We will build and the world will scream. But we have learned that the world screams easily for that which is so minor and ignores that which really matters." There is so much truth to that. I'm not saying that I support Israel's decision, nor that it doesn't matter, but there is so much worse going on that the U.N./world at large does not get upset over or involved with - as Israel is constantly scrutinized, criticized, and condemned.

i

[bleeding heart]

This, too, bears repeating: "We will build and the world will scream. But we have learned that the world screams easily for that which is so minor and ignores that which really matters." There is so much truth to that. I'm not saying that I support Israel's decision, nor that it doesn't matter, but there is so much worse going on that the U.N./world at large does not get upset over or involved with - as Israel is constantly scrutinized, criticized, and condemned.

Then how does this critique not apply to those condemning and/or outright vilifying the Palestinians?

[Canuckistani]

This, too, bears repeating: "We will build and the world will scream. But we have learned that the world screams easily for that which is so minor and ignores that which really matters." There is so much truth to that. I'm not saying that I support Israel's decision, nor that it doesn't matter, but there is so much worse going on that the U.N./world at large does not get upset over or involved with - as Israel is constantly scrutinized, criticized, and condemned.

i

Just stealing a little land here. No biggie, just something minor. Land doesn't really matter. Ignore the man behind the curtain, ignore the man behind the curtain.

[Guest American Woman]

Then how does this critique not apply to those condemning and/or outright vilifying the Palestinians?

Where is the world condemnation and vilifying of "Palestinians?" I don't see that happening. Palestine in not condemned by the world at large. That would be Israel. Which was the point being made.

[Guest American Woman]

Just stealing a little land here. No biggie, just something minor. Land doesn't really matter. Ignore the man behind the curtain, ignore the man behind the curtain.

I don't think that "it doesn't really matter," and I'm not so sure that's quite what Paula Stern was saying; it's just that in comparison to some of the atrocities going on in the world right now, it is "minor" - yet these atrocities are taking a back seat to Israel, and that's just hard to figure. So in other words, it's a matter of context.

[Canuckistani]

I don't think that "it doesn't really matter," and I'm not so sure that's quite what Paula Stern was saying; it's just that in comparison to some of the atrocities going on in the world right now, it is "minor" - yet these atrocities are taking a back seat to Israel, and that's just hard to figure. So in other words, it's a matter of context.

We will build and the world will scream. But we have learned that the world screams easily for that which is so minor and ignores that which really matters. Dozens died today in Syria as they did yesterday and as they will tomorrow – but yes, certainly, let’s discuss a barren hill across from my back yard.

See what she's doing there? Minimizing the continued taking of Palestinian land. It may only be a barren hill, but when that's all there is, it's everything. Talk to Hamas first - how does that work? Hamas stops the rockets, but Israel just keeps on taking land? What people in their right mind would agree to such a deal.

The world does condemn Syria. But what are they supposed to do? The world condemns Israel, but it's not as if the world is doing anything there either. And the world condemns attacks on Israel as well, but again, what should the world do if Israel is not willing to give back the land and keeps stealing more?

Again, it's in Israel's best interest to leave a viable piece of land for the Palestinians to create their own state. The jews already won when Palestine was first divided (ie got the biggest piece) then won more territory in the subsequent wars. The lesson learned after WWI is you don't take everything from your enemy, because otherwise he will come back to fight again - ie WWII. The Allies were smarter with Germany then, Israel needs to be smarter with Palestine now.

[Guest Peeves]

Just stealing a little land here. No biggie, just something minor. Land doesn't really matter. Ignore the man behind the curtain, ignore the man behind the curtain.

Looking back a bit to attacks on Israel, and the accusation that Israel took the West Bank and Gaza, I never see the word from?

It certainly wasn't FROM Palestinians. So, FROM who ?

Now when Israel returned land occupied from war they were given peace understandings in return. Does that not suggest a course of action?

[bleeding heart]

Where is the world condemnation and vilifying of "Palestinians?" I don't see that happening. Palestine in not condemned by the world at large. That would be Israel. Which was the point being made.

There is plenty of condemnation of the Palestinians...including right here on MLW. And it's certainly not unique to here.

Put it this way; of the posters here who have made the same point you've made--about far worse crimes occurring elsewhere--why aren't y'all asking yourselves the selfsame question that you pose for Israel's critics? Why the condemnation of Palestinians, when so much worse is happening in other regions?

Why should such a question be unidirectional?

[DogOnPorch]

There is plenty of condemnation of the Palestinians...including right here on MLW. And it's certainly not unique to here.

Put it this way; of the posters here who have made the same point you've made--about far worse crimes occurring elsewhere--why aren't y'all asking yourselves the selfsame question that you pose for Israel's critics? Why the condemnation of Palestinians, when so much worse is happening in other regions?

Why should such a question be unidirectional?

100+ to 9 with 41 hand sitters says otherwise.

[Hudson Jones]

Most people do not like bullies and if their government is enabling the bully to continue what it's doing, by financial and political incentives, it's no surprise it will receive attention. Not that it's not receiving attention, but the U.S. is not enabling or making excuses for the Syrian government or some african governments. More and more people are realizing the extremely biased and unfair stance of U.S. in regards to Israel and so it is finally receiving the attention it deserves.

[bleeding heart]

100+ to 9 with 41 hand sitters says otherwise.

The vote is not "vilifying Israel."

But it's beside the point anyway: this matter goes well beyond the recent vote...and predates it by a long shot.

[DogOnPorch]

Most people do not like bullies and if their government is enabling the bully to continue what it's doing, by financial and political incentives, it's no surprise it will receive attention. Not that it's not receiving attention, but the U.S. is not enabling or making excuses for the Syrian government or some african governments. More and more people are realizing the extremely biased and unfair stance of U.S. in regards to Israel and so it is finally receiving the attention it deserves.

Perhaps trot out a few photos of dead kids in Syria and say that Israelis did it. That should get some attention.

[bush_cheney2004]

The real "bullies" were taken care of in several Mideast wars. They lost.

[DogOnPorch]

The vote is not "vilifying Israel."

But it's beside the point anyway: this matter goes well beyond the recent vote...and predates it by a long shot.

Are you claiming that these dictatorships, third world hell holes and various nanny states have an unbiased informed opinion of the Arab-Israeli conflict? I highly doubt it.

[bleeding heart]

Are you claiming that these dictatorships, third world hell holes and various nanny states have an unbiased informed opinion of the Arab-Israeli conflict? I highly doubt it.

Even so, the subject under discussion is not related...because the subject under discussion predates the vote.

And incidentally, according to most of the political right, Canada and the US are "nanny states"...not at the top of the list, but fairly close. So I guess we're biased as well.

Edited December 6, 2012 by bleeding heart

[DogOnPorch]

Even so, the subject under discussion is not related...because the subject under discussion predates the vote.

And incidentally, according to most of the political right, Canada and the US are "nanny states"...not at the top of the list, but fairly close. So I guess we're biased as well.

After watching the amazing flip-floppy Baird in action, Nanny state is pretty darn accurate. Nobody EXCEPT Israel has any spine to stand-up for what's right. These PLO terrorists don't deserve SFA. The innocent Arab folks they've suckered in for decades should be taken in by Arab countries...period.

[bleeding heart]

Nobody EXCEPT Israel has any spine to stand-up for what's right.

Wowza. One single country with spine, and who does what's right.

This seems counterintuitive on its face.

[DogOnPorch]

Wowza. One single country with spine, and who does what's right.

This seems counterintuitive on its face.

Explain how rewarding terrorism since well before I was born is the right thing to do.

[bleeding heart]

Explain how rewarding terrorism since well before I was born is the right thing to do.

Israel is not free from "rewarding terrorism." Obviously. Perhaps it hasn't achieved the extreme levels of the US, the UK, France, et al...but it's hardly been free of that particular ugliness.

[DogOnPorch]

Israel is not free from "rewarding terrorism." Obviously. Perhaps it hasn't achieved the extreme levels of the US, the UK, France, et al...but it's hardly been free of that particular ugliness.

That might work with somebody else. I know where the Palestinian Cause comes from...and where that filthy thing has been.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvoJgZ_lZH4

[Guest Peeves]

Most people do not like bullies and if their government is enabling the bully to continue what it's doing, by financial and political incentives, it's no surprise it will receive attention. Not that it's not receiving attention, but the U.S. is not enabling or making excuses for the Syrian government or some african governments. More and more people are realizing the extremely biased and unfair stance of U.S. in regards to Israel and so it is finally receiving the attention it deserves.

Bully?

Israel is surrounded by

22 hostile Arab/Islamic nations

Israel faces probably 90% of UN sanctions or reproofs.

Israel is I think, .07 of the Middle East

Israel gives Arab citizens more rights than Muslim countries, more rights to gays, more to Muslim women and has developed a productive oasis for millions where there were few living well.

Now Israel certainly does stand for Israel. Israel like others facing brutal regimes like Hamas will certainly dig their heels in.

You should be ashamed to ignore the bullies as in Syria, Egypt and other Muslim states to pick on such a small and threatened country as Israel. A bully would do that,

[Guest Peeves]

Israel is not free from "rewarding terrorism." Obviously. Perhaps it hasn't achieved the extreme levels of the US, the UK, France, et al...but it's hardly been free of that particular ugliness.

Those that seem to fault democracies and condemn not the butchers in other states are obviously twisted when it comes to reality.

[bleeding heart]

That might work with somebody else. I know where the Palestinian Cause comes from...and where that filthy thing has been.

You asked about "rewarding terrorism." Perhaps you'd temporarily forgotten the terrorist histories of the nations that you most admire.

Now you're changing the subject.