There is no apparent resolution of the Israeli situation

[Hudson Jones]

I think you finally may get the point.

There is no Palestinian state until Israel says there is.

It's this arrogance that will eventually sideline Israel. The recent overwhelming support for the Palestinian state around the world is a sign of things to come.

The Palestinians will have a state and all Israel can do is to slow the process to the inevitable.

[Guest American Woman]

It's this arrogance that will eventually sideline Israel. The recent overwhelming support for the Palestinian state around the world is a sign of things to come.

The Palestinians will have a state and all Israel can do is to slow the process to the inevitable.

The support of Palestine's bid for recognition as a state isn't exactly synonymous with "support for the Palestinian state." Furthermore, Israel will likely just continue as it has been as long as Palestine continues as it has been. What's changed? In actual reality, nothing.

[wyly]

We don't get out building permits from the US, but right here in our own state.

and canadians grant building permits no american permission required

[wyly]

Seems to me Israel has been 'holding' that land to conditions now since 1967. At some point isn't possession 9 points of the law.

in what mythical world is that the case?...in international law that matters land occupied and annexed by force is illegal...

[dre]

Like I said this whole argument is stupid. The whole point of a two state solution is to put some distance between all these idiots. Why the hell would anyone with half a brain argue for forcing a new palestinian state to keep pockets of the most zealous Israelis scattered throughout the West Bank? Are you that desperate for people to keep fighting and killing each other? This would lead to tension, bad will, and confrontation.

And this is also an argument quite frankly of people that just dont pay attention. We already know what these pullouts look like... Israel wont even leave this up to the palestinians, they will offer the settlers compensation packages and land in Israel to move the vast majority of people out, then send in security forces to evict the nuts that refuse to go. Do any of you really believe for a second that Israel is going to leave the fate of hundreds of thousands of jews in the occupied territories up to the palestinians? Try paying attention.

Jesus freakin christ....

[DogOnPorch]

in what mythical world is that the case?...in international law that matters land occupied and annexed by force is illegal...

Really? What 'international law' is this?

[DogOnPorch]

and canadians grant building permits no american permission required

Still...try building without one. You'll be paying for the bulldozer.

[Hudson Jones]

The support of Palestine's bid for recognition as a state isn't exactly synonymous with "support for the Palestinian state." Furthermore, Israel will likely just continue as it has been as long as Palestine continues as it has been. What's changed? In actual reality, nothing.

This would be a good move by Britain and France:

For first time, Britain, France may recall ambassadors in protest at Israel's settlement construction

Moves against Israel will be made in next the few days following Netanyahu’s decision to move ahead on construction in E1 and build 3,000 housing units in settlement blocs east of Jerusalem, say senior European diplomats.

http://www.haaretz.c...remium-1.481963

Edited December 3, 2012 by Hudson Jones

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh great...Britain and France started the problem to begin with.

[DogOnPorch]

Oh great...Britain and France started the problem to begin with.

lol...that they did.

[Guest Peeves]

This would be a good move by Britain and France:

For first time, Britain, France may recall ambassadors in protest at Israel's settlement construction

Moves against Israel will be made in next the few days following Netanyahu’s decision to move ahead on construction in E1 and build 3,000 housing units in settlement blocs east of Jerusalem, say senior European diplomats.

http://www.haaretz.c...remium-1.481963

But again, ignore Hamas and Abbas denigration at the UN. These are not just people wanting a state, they want NO ISRAEL.

Hamas? You think Hamas accepts a state of Israel?

For a long time the attacks on Israel from Gaza (Hamas) were justified by Hamas by Israel's occupation of the Gaza. Israel withdrew completely from Gaza ACH! Judefrei! , and that allowed for peace, but instead Hamas started smuggling in rockets and mortars and making rockets and attacking Israeli civilians.

That after 2 years of attacks resulted in an Israeli blockade.

Gaza -Hamas-Palestinians- have fired over 2, 300 rockets at Israel civilians.

Why, WHY indeed would Israel vacate other immediately adjacent territory to those that still bray for the destruction of Israel.

That's sort of insanity.

Example.

Responding to Mahmoud Abbas' UN upgrade resolution, Mahmoud Zahar, a Hamas founder and the movement's foreign minister, said in an interview: "Our land is not just the West Bank and Gaza, and that is important. It is all of Palestine." Hamas is also hailing its patrons in Iran, a tactic that appears designed to shame Arab states into providing fresh support. (Washington Post)

Edited December 3, 2012 by Peeves

[Guest Peeves]

http://www.dailyalert.org/

The rhetoric at the UN by Abbas shows pretty much nothing has changed as to Israel's security or existence in the eyes of the Arab leadership.

PA Incitement Against Israel Getting Worse - Herb Keinon

Incitement and inflammatory language against Israel in the Palestinian Authority is at the worst level since Jerusalem began systematically measuring it in 2009 in an "incitement index," Strategic Affairs Ministry director-general Yossi Kuperwasser told the cabinet Sunday. In his speech to the UN General Assembly on Thursday, PA President Mahmoud Abbas painted Israel in demonic colors. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu termed that speech as "dripping with poison."

Commenting after Kuperwasser presented his quarterly findings, Netanyahu said, "This is additional proof that we are not talking about a disagreement over territory, rather about the rejection of Israel's existence." He said the failure of the Palestinians to accept Israel's existence within any border is the "root of the conflict."

"As long as the Palestinian Authority educates the younger generation to hatred, how is it possible to even speak about peace?" Netanyahu said, adding that the Palestinians want to "use the diplomatic process to bring about the end of the State of Israel....Going to the UN [on Thursday] is part of this." (Jerusalem Post)

See also The Culture of Peace and Incitement in the PA Index (Israel Prime Minister's Office)

Edited December 3, 2012 by Peeves

[wyly]

http://www.dailyalert.org/

The rhetoric at the UN by Abbas shows pretty much nothing has changed as to Israel's security or existence in the eyes of the Arab leadership.

PA Incitement Against Israel Getting Worse - Herb Keinon

Incitement and inflammatory language against Israel in the Palestinian Authority is at the worst level since Jerusalem began systematically measuring it in 2009 in an "incitement index," Strategic Affairs Ministry director-general Yossi Kuperwasser told the cabinet Sunday. In his speech to the UN General Assembly on Thursday, PA President Mahmoud Abbas painted Israel in demonic colors. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu termed that speech as "dripping with poison."

Commenting after Kuperwasser presented his quarterly findings, Netanyahu said, "This is additional proof that we are not talking about a disagreement over territory, rather about the rejection of Israel's existence." He said the failure of the Palestinians to accept Israel's existence within any border is the "root of the conflict."

"As long as the Palestinian Authority educates the younger generation to hatred, how is it possible to even speak about peace?" Netanyahu said, adding that the Palestinians want to "use the diplomatic process to bring about the end of the State of Israel....Going to the UN [on Thursday] is part of this." (Jerusalem Post)

See also The Culture of Peace and Incitement in the PA Index (Israel Prime Minister's Office)

you "never read the Abbas speech did you..."dripping with poison".

let's look at some of those poisonous comments

not that you'll read it

"Palestine comes today to the General Assembly because it believes in peace and because its people, as proven in past days, are in desperate need of it.

"Palestine comes today to this prestigious international forum, representative and protector of international legitimacy, reaffirming our conviction that the international community now stands before the last chance to save the two-state solution."

-- "Every voice supporting our endeavor today is a most valuable voice of courage, and every state that grants support today to Palestine's request for non-member observer state status is affirming its principled and moral support for freedom and the rights of peoples and international law and peace."

-- "As we promised our friends and our brothers and sisters, we will continue to consult with them upon the approval of your esteemed body our request to upgrade Palestine's status. We will act responsibly and positively in our next steps, and we will to work to strengthen cooperation with the countries and peoples of the world for the sake of a just peace.

-- "The General Assembly is called upon today to issue a birth certificate of the reality of the State of Palestine."

oh so evil! those nasty palestinians speaking of respect peace and a two state solution... Edited December 3, 2012 by wyly

[DogOnPorch]

oh so evil! those nasty palestinians speaking of respect peace and a two state solution...

Wyly, do you happen to know Abbas's position on the Holocaust?

[jbg]

You ignore reality and history if you think a one state solution..(Israel destroyed by numbers) or a 2 state solution...,( Israel destroyed by continued attack by radicals and extremists )THAT WILL NEVER ACCEPT any legitimacy of Israel on Islamic lands are viable choices.

Israel has literally no control, no solution, no means or method of appeasing those enemies that seek nothing less than the return of Muslim lands to Islam. PERIOD! Israel can react, respond, and that always serves those claiming the response is too severe.inappropriate...

Israel could go out of existence. Or else concede to Arafat's terms to make it majority Palestinian.

[dre]

Israel could go out of existence. Or else concede to Arafat's terms to make it majority Palestinian.

Yeah because those are the only two options

[jbg]

Yeah because those are the only two options

Certain posters believe Israel should do without water.

[GostHacked]

Certain posters believe Israel should do without water.

Israel can always make a deal and purchase the water instead of stealing it. Seems reasonable right?

[Guest Peeves]

Wyly, do you happen to know Abbas's position on the Holocaust?

I do, the Arabs do, Israelis do. Now you do.

http://www.thecommen...lestinian_cause

Sadly, Holocaust denial is a ubiquitous feature of Palestinian discourse, to say nothing of mainstream discourse across the Arab and Islamic world. In 2000, Hamas issued a press release describing the Holocaust as an "alleged and invented story with no basis". In 2009, they denounced the UNRWA for planning to distribute a textbook for 13 year-old Palestinians which contained material on the Holocaust. One spokesman said: "We refuse to let our children study a lie invented by the Zionists".

Nor is this insidious attack on historical truth confined to Islamist extremists. The “moderate” Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, provided a boost to the Holocaust denial movement with his 1983 book, The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism. In the book, Abbas described the murder of 6 million Jews as a "myth" and a "fantastic lie".

He argued that the number of Jews killed was probably less than one million and, to support his thesis, quoted Robert Faurisson, the French academic who denied that the gas chambers ever existed. Like many others on the hard left, Abbas also blamed the Zionist movement for the massacres. He wrote that the Zionists "gave permission to every racist in the world, led by Hitler and the Nazis, to treat Jews as they wish, so long as it guarantees immigration to Palestine."

In 2003, Abbas declared that his views had changed, describing the Holocaust as a “terrible, unforgivable crime against the Jewish nation”. Despite his PR generated contrition, the damage had already been done.

Whatever Abbas's current views, Holocaust denial remains rampant in Palestinian society, particularly in the education system and in the media.

[Guest Peeves]

Certain posters believe Israel should do without water.

There are of course 2 sides to a claim. Water runs downhill, but propaganda runs rampant.

JERUSALEM – Not only is the claim that Israel steals water from the Palestinians a flagrant lie, but the exact opposite is true – Palestinians are stealing water from Israel, and Israel provides the Palestinians with plenty of water, says American attorney Mark Langfan, whose findings were recently confirmed by a detailed Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) fact sheet regarding the water issues in the West Bank, published by the Civil Administration of Judea and Samaria.

http://www.jewishtri...raels-watergate

[jbg]

Israel can always make a deal and purchase the water instead of stealing it. Seems reasonable right?

Yes.

But let me give you a lesson about 1966 Middle East. Neither Lebanon, nor Syria, nor Jordan, nor Egypt recognized Israel. The buy/sell transaction would have been mighty awkward. A dependable water sale arrangement among countries still technically at war? I don't think so.

[GostHacked]

Yes.

But let me give you a lesson about 1966 Middle East. Neither Lebanon, nor Syria, nor Jordan, nor Egypt recognized Israel. The buy/sell transaction would have been mighty awkward. A dependable water sale arrangement among countries still technically at war? I don't think so.

Perhaps the Jews did not think the current incarnation of Israel all the way through. There is water elsewhere. But even in times of war countries do trade with each other. It happens quite often. So maybe both need to start talking real peace and let the past go. Palestine needs to let things go as does Israel.

And the only way one can claim Palestinians are stealing water is possibly from the illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank. But since the settlements are illegal, the claim of water theft is a non starter.

[jbg]

And the only way one can claim Palestinians are stealing water is possibly from the illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank. But since the settlements are illegal, the claim of water theft is a non starter.

The issue here is different.

Dre has been saying for a while that the 1967 War was triggered in large part by rival claims to Jordan River water. His point was that Israel should have arranged to purchase the water. y ersponse is that was well nigh impossible in the pre-1967 environment when the surrounding Arab countries still had hopes of wiping Israel off the map.