WIP Posted November 26, 2012 Report Posted November 26, 2012 I never denied there were pogroms in Christendom...lol. Nice try, though. You just never thought to mention them I suppose. I'm merely countering your Jews and Muslims were pals before Israel BS. In other words, you're arguing against your own strawman enemies. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
DogOnPorch Posted November 26, 2012 Report Posted November 26, 2012 (edited) You just never thought to mention them I suppose. Why would I? It's out of context. In other words, you're arguing against your own strawman enemies. However you wish to refer to yourself is fine with me. Edited November 26, 2012 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest Peeves Posted November 26, 2012 Report Posted November 26, 2012 You just never thought to mention them I suppose. In other words, you're arguing against your own strawman enemies. Not as I see it. He simply referenced the Islamic facts. You brought up the Christendom pogroms. He never suggested in anyway that his response was all encompassing. You seem to be picking a fight. Why so confrontational. Good references to a non sequitur though. Quote
WIP Posted November 26, 2012 Report Posted November 26, 2012 Not as I see it. He simply referenced the Islamic facts. You brought up the Christendom pogroms. He never suggested in anyway that his response was all encompassing. You seem to be picking a fight. Why so confrontational. Like they say:"it's easy to cheer for the home team." If you look at a lot of these issues like Israel/Palestine from outside North America....even from European sources, they are far more likely to include some of the necessary context, like who is armed to the teeth and who is not; and did Israel deliberately sabotage opportunities for peace because they (starting with the Likud Governments) got greedy and decided they wanted all of the former Palestine Mandate for themselves. The two nation - type of deals were actually a possibility before all of the West Bank settlements started during the 70's. Even when Anwar Sadat and Jimmy Carter were working together on a deal, Menachem Begin stabbed them in the back and started building new settlements....just like his successor - Netanyahu is doing right now. It's also worth noting that Hamas would never have risen to power if it wasn't secretly supported by the Israeli Government back in the 80's as a means to divide Palestinians, and prevent the PLO from doing what the ANC was in the process of doing in South Africa...one of Israel's few allies at the time btw. So, the thorn in the side they created for Yasser Arafat, turned into a monster that threatens them now. And that's why these issues have to be put into a wider context than who shot first. Hamas may be an adversary that cannot be dealt with in a civil manner now, but if Israel is in an endless struggle with an enemy they have to keep prisoner under occupation, they have themselves to blame also, for deciding to seek advantage several decades ago, rather than offer a plausible peace agreement. Right now, it might be too late to do anything about it, but my position on this issue is why should we be dragged into it by a Prime Minister who genuflects to U.S. foreign policy? Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
Guest Peeves Posted November 27, 2012 Report Posted November 27, 2012 "like who is armed to the teeth and who is not" Like who is attacking with thousands of rockets. Like those firing Iranian rockets from Lebanon and Gaza. Like those tens of thousands of rockets and mortar fire at Israeli civilians don't exist. As for our P.M., he neither genuflects nor walks in step with the USA and such an accusation is certainly an opinion I consider ill founded. As for Hamas rising "To power" as a result of Israel's support, that's a blatant lie. The PLO' corrupt practices led to the rise of Hamas being elected as the Gaza government. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 27, 2012 Report Posted November 27, 2012 You can tell we're a bunch that doesn't take religion seriously. Can any of you experts on Jews tell me WHY you think there are legions of Orthodox Jews trying to live in certain areas of the WB? Hint...think Bible stories of the OT. Remember, every Muslim holy site in the Levant is also somebody else's holy site due to Islam's iconoclastic nature of co-opting other folk's religious figures as their own. Who can name it first....? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
WIP Posted November 27, 2012 Report Posted November 27, 2012 "like who is armed to the teeth and who is not" Like who is attacking with thousands of rockets. Like those firing Iranian rockets from Lebanon and Gaza. Like those tens of thousands of rockets and mortar fire at Israeli civilians don't exist. As for our P.M., he neither genuflects nor walks in step with the USA and such an accusation is certainly an opinion I consider ill founded. As for Hamas rising "To power" as a result of Israel's support, that's a blatant lie. The PLO' corrupt practices led to the rise of Hamas being elected as the Gaza government. Let me just say that if you never read anything about the Middle East from a non-zionist source, you'll never know the difference between truth, plausible explanation and outright lies....because your post is chock full of them. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
Canuckistani Posted November 27, 2012 Report Posted November 27, 2012 Israel is a sliver of land in a sea of enemies and obviously could not expand into Arab territory. It does it every day. Using similar arguments to what the Nazis did. Quote
Guest Peeves Posted November 27, 2012 Report Posted November 27, 2012 It does it every day. Using similar arguments to what the Nazis did. Yes it is indeed getting to be huge by settling some in areas that are disputed war geography.BTW once you use Nazi in conjunction to Israel, I consider you an anti-Semite. Quote
Guest Peeves Posted November 27, 2012 Report Posted November 27, 2012 Let me just say that if you never read anything about the Middle East from a non-zionist source, you'll never know the difference between truth, plausible explanation and outright lies....because your post is chock full of them. I warrant I have read pro and con on the region for more years than you have walked the earth. I also believe I can deal with the truth far more unbiased than those using terms as non -Zionist. Quote
dre Posted November 27, 2012 Report Posted November 27, 2012 That makes lots of sense. My point is that populations move and are displaced all the time. Why is it only the Jews that shouldn't have their own state? So now weve moved from nonsense and gibberish, to false strawmen. Who exactly said Jews should not have their own state? Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Guest Peeves Posted November 27, 2012 Report Posted November 27, 2012 You can tell we're a bunch that doesn't take religion seriously. Can any of you experts on Jews tell me WHY you think there are legions of Orthodox Jews trying to live in certain areas of the WB? Hint...think Bible stories of the OT. Remember, every Muslim holy site in the Levant is also somebody else's holy site due to Islam's iconoclastic nature of co-opting other folk's religious figures as their own. Who can name it first....? Judea and Samaria Quote
Canuckistani Posted November 27, 2012 Report Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) BTW once you use Nazi in conjunction to Israel, I consider you an anti-Semite. I knew that you would. Once somebody has to use the r word, it shows me they've run out of real arguments. What do you call those who say the Jewish race/ethnicity/religion must hold all of Israel and Judea? pro-Semites? Edited November 27, 2012 by Canuckistani Quote
Canuckistani Posted November 27, 2012 Report Posted November 27, 2012 So now weve moved from nonsense and gibberish, to false strawmen. Who exactly said Jews should not have their own state? Why is it OK to say Jews should have their own state, but not Christians? I certainly understand Jews wanting their own state, but then they can't pretend to be a democracy. They are a Jewish state the same way they are surrounded by Islamic states. And they do have their own state - pre '67 borders. Quote
wyly Posted November 27, 2012 Report Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) Yes it is indeed getting to be huge by settling some in areas that are disputed war geography. BTW once you use Nazi in conjunction to Israel, I consider you an anti-Semite. deflection tactics...blind anti-Semites like yourself(yes Palestinians are Semites) don't like comparing similarities of Zionism to Nazi lebensraum or Apartheid policy... Edited November 27, 2012 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted November 27, 2012 Report Posted November 27, 2012 Why is it OK to say Jews should have their own state, but not Christians? I certainly understand Jews wanting their own state, but then they can't pretend to be a democracy. They are a Jewish state the same way they are surrounded by Islamic states. And they do have their own state - pre '67 borders. other than the Vatican are there christian states? or are there states that just happen to be predominately christian... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Canuckistani Posted November 27, 2012 Report Posted November 27, 2012 other than the Vatican are there christian states? or are there states that just happen to be predominately christian... That's my point. Can you imagine if Harper declared Canada a Christian state? One of the loudest voices against it would come from Jewish Canadians, just as most of the protests against Christmas festivities and decorations do. That would be deemed racism, I'm sure. Just to be clear, I don't in any way support Harper doing this - I would be fighting against it. I want Canada to be a secular state that doesn't try to suppress it's Christian heritage. If Israel wants to be a Jewish state, that's up to them. And I can understand the motivation. But it puts them in exactly the same league as the states surrounding them. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 27, 2012 Report Posted November 27, 2012 Judea and Samaria Close...the areas are traditional parts of David's kingdom but they hold a much more tangible structure known as the Tomb/Cave of the Patriarchs. The burial place of many Biblical figures. Now imagine Jews "occupying" Mecca. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
jbg Posted November 28, 2012 Report Posted November 28, 2012 Why is it OK to say Jews should have their own state, but not Christians? I certainly understand Jews wanting their own state, but then they can't pretend to be a democracy. They are a Jewish state the same way they are surrounded by Islamic states. And they do have their own state - pre '67 borders. And which Arab countries recognized pre-1967 borders, pre-1967? None. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Guest Peeves Posted November 28, 2012 Report Posted November 28, 2012 deflection tactics...blind anti-Semites like yourself(yes Palestinians are Semites) don't like comparing similarities of Zionism to Nazi lebensraum or Apartheid policy... Yes Arabs are Semites, but the term anti-Semite was coined for and references not Arabs, only Jews. Look it up. an anti-Semite is by usage only an anti-JewAnother educated by []Deeves. One by one. So I'm certainly not an anti-Semite. Quote
Guest Peeves Posted November 28, 2012 Report Posted November 28, 2012 And which Arab countries recognized pre-1967 borders, pre-1967? None. SURPRISE! Y'all.... Palestinian, Saudi, and Syrian textbooks show maps that omit any mention of Israel. http://www.ajc.org/a...10-2004pdf..pdf Quote
bleeding heart Posted November 28, 2012 Report Posted November 28, 2012 I am not aware of Canada having more than a minor number of Jews, and maybe a synagogue or two. Uh, yes, you are. You and I have had this specific conversation (more than once, as you keep up with this bizarre pretence)...and then you say, "oh! I didn't know that!" Until next time, when you repeat the same thing again. I don't know why; I suspect you are trying in some vague way to bait people, though without obvious success. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
bleeding heart Posted November 28, 2012 Report Posted November 28, 2012 BTW once you use Nazi in conjunction to Israel, I consider you an anti-Semite. But since you're quite promiscuous with the designation, we'll have to take your "consideration" with a big chunk of salt. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
GostHacked Posted November 28, 2012 Report Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) Yes it is indeed getting to be huge by settling some in areas that are disputed war geography. BTW once you use Nazi in conjunction to Israel, I consider you an anti-Semite. Can we use Bibi's calling of the Iranian leadership as Nazis and an example of racism? Shove your antisemitism. Bibi calls Iran Nazi Germany - about 1:50. (edit )He also calls Iran a religious Masonic cult. Edited November 28, 2012 by GostHacked Quote
jbg Posted November 28, 2012 Report Posted November 28, 2012 deflection tactics...blind anti-Semites like yourself(yes Palestinians are Semites) don't like comparing similarities of Zionism to Nazi lebensraum or Apartheid policy... Yes Arabs are Semites, but the term anti-Semite was coined for and references not Arabs, only Jews. Look it up. an anti-Semite is by usage only an anti-Jew Another educated by []Deeves. One by one. So I'm certainly not an anti-Semite. Agree with Peeves but I use term "Jew hater" or "anti-Jew" to deal with these deflecting, frivolous comments. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
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