bush_cheney2004 Posted November 26, 2012 Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 Thanks for the jingo. It's not the size of dog in the fight..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 26, 2012 Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 Thanks for the jingo. It's not the size of dog in the fight..... They saved the day in the Golan 1973...last ditch effort stuff. No movie, oddly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 26, 2012 Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 Side note: Holy frick...80,000 M113s made since 1960. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 Most of the 3 billion in US transfers to Israel = Jet-A fuel. How much does Israel really cost the U.S.? http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/cost_of_israel.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 How much does Israel really cost the U.S.? http://www.ifamerica..._of_israel.html How much does the Muslim world cost the USA and the EU, and the UN and contributions for oil? Personally support for a democratic friend like Israel is better spent sez I than that spent on those that are, like Pakistan, more adversaries with designs on the West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 I understand that Israel is the ally of the USA but not to tolerate a single word of criticism of Israel as if Israel just could do no wrong is taking the whole term "ally" to a new level. That's an overly used (up) canard that's totally a fabrication. There is NO country on earth more criticized than Israel, much of the criticism from Jews, Israelis and Israels friends. Reasonable criticism of any country is accepted by thinking people. Unreasonable and unjust criticism for political agenda or lies and exaggerations are simply agitprop and subject to contrary opinion and proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 How much does the Muslim world cost the USA and the EU, and the UN and contributions for oil? Personally support for a democratic friend like Israel is better spent sez I than that spent on those that are, like Pakistan, more adversaries with designs on the West. And those are the costs of empire! Here you are bitching about extremist Muslims all the time, and it was the American foreign policy of supporting the Saud family, starting in the 1930's, which got it all started in the first place. And it was all about exercising control over the oil. But that still doesn't show me how Israel is a friend....especially when they try to incite the U.S. to go to war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 ....But that still doesn't show me how Israel is a friend....especially when they try to incite the U.S. to go to war. The U.S. can go to war without any encouragement from Israel, and has often done so. Israel is a "friend" to U.S. interests in the region...has been for a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 How much does Israel really cost the U.S.? http://www.ifamerica..._of_israel.html How much does the Muslim world cost the USA and the EU, and the UN and contributions for oil? Personally support for a democratic friend like Israel is better spent sez I than that spent on those that are, like Pakistan, more adversaries with designs on the West. What people don't get (except ironically the Arabs, who understand this perfectly) is that Israel is a giant forward base in that part of the world. India aside, there is no other reliable or stable country in that part of the world from Indonesia on the east to the Atlantic on the West, from the Mediterranean Sea and Turkey (no longer reliable) on the north to the Cape of Good Hope on the South, except India and Israel. India is technically non-aligned and distant, though I suppose in a pinch the West could bivouac there. That means that if Saudi Arabia has its own "Arab Spring" and "conflagrates", Israel is the only conceivable land base of operations.Thought of that way Israel is of great value to the West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 What people don't get (except ironically the Arabs, who understand this perfectly) is that Israel is a giant forward base in that part of the world. India aside, there is no other reliable or stable country in that part of the world from Indonesia on the east to the Atlantic on the West, from the Mediterranean Sea and Turkey (no longer reliable) on the north to the Cape of Good Hope on the South, except India and Israel. India is technically non-aligned and distant, though I suppose in a pinch the West could bivouac there. That means that if Saudi Arabia has its own "Arab Spring" and "conflagrates", Israel is the only conceivable land base of operations. Thought of that way Israel is of great value to the West. I dont see any value there at all. Israel will never be used as a forward base for obvious reasons. Saudi Arabia is pretty stable IMO, and theres Kuwait, Quatar, Iraq, Afghanistan and a number of other countries that can be pursuaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 What people don't get (except ironically the Arabs, who understand this perfectly) is that Israel is a giant forward base in that part of the world. Agreed...I don't think many people who puzzle over U.S. support of Israel understand this at all. Israel is like having one big aircraft carrier, battle group, air base, and staging area for covert operations permanently in the region. No NATO red tape or hand wringing as with other "allies". Israel is almost always motivated to engage a shared enemy in a rough neighbourhood. Israel gets America...and America gets Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 I dont see any value there at all. Israel will never be used as a forward base for obvious reasons. Saudi Arabia is pretty stable IMO, and theres Kuwait, Quatar, Iraq, Afghanistan and a number of other countries that can be pursuaded. Uhhhh...Israel is used as a base as we speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Uhhhh...Israel is used as a base as we speak. Im aware there is US military bases yeah, but I dont see them being used as FOBS for active operations. The US is usually trying to distance Israel from its various adventures over there for their own protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Im aware there is US military bases yeah, but I dont see them being used as FOBS for active operations. The US is usually trying to distance Israel from its various adventures over there for their own protection. Oh, really? In your dreams perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Oh, really? In your dreams perhaps. No in reality. Theres a reason why you dont see Israelis and Americans working together in various middle eastern theatres. The US wants to avoid the perception that Israel is involved... Thats why they practically begged Israel not respond to Iraqi scud attacks during GW1, and why Israel is not an official participant in US wars in the middle east in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. They want Israel to stay out of these things, because they are a bit more vulnerable to the politics involved. Not to mention pretty much every US administration likes to take its token shot at peacefully ending Conflict: Dirtfarm, and launching attacks on Arab countries from Israeli soil isnt real conducive to that goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 No in reality. Theres a reason why you dont see Israelis and Americans working together in various middle eastern theatres. The US wants to avoid the perception that Israel is involved... Thats why they practically begged Israel not respond to Iraqi scud attacks during GW1, and why Israel is not an official participant in US wars in the middle east in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. They want Israel to stay out of these things, because they are a bit more vulnerable to the politics involved. Not to mention pretty much every US administration likes to take its token shot at peacefully ending Conflict: Dirtfarm, and launching attacks on Arab countries from Israeli soil isnt real conducive to that goal. America and Israel have NEVER cooperated in a military operation. Ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 No in reality. Theres a reason why you dont see Israelis and Americans working together in various middle eastern theatres. The US wants to avoid the perception that Israel is involved... Thats why they practically begged Israel not respond to Iraqi scud attacks during GW1, and why Israel is not an official participant in US wars in the middle east in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. They want Israel to stay out of these things, because they are a bit more vulnerable to the politics involved. Not to mention pretty much every US administration likes to take its token shot at peacefully ending Conflict: Dirtfarm, and launching attacks on Arab countries from Israeli soil isnt real conducive to that goal. I am sure lots of Mossad information finds its way to both the US CIA and CSIS. The former, at least, is a sick joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) U.S. and Israeli forces just concluded Austere Challenge 12. Edited November 28, 2012 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 U.S. and Israeli forces just concluded Austere Challenge 12. I meant Israel and US troops fighting side by side. It hasn't happened except possibly at a SF level. The US was just as likely to threaten to slap Israel upside the head on the battlefield as per Ike @ Suez Crisis if it got out of line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 The U.S. can go to war without any encouragement from Israel, and has often done so. Israel is a "friend" to U.S. interests in the region...has been for a very long time. I've mentioned elsewhere that I think U.S. foreign (including military) policy puts securing access to oil as priority #1, and Israel is a friend, and will support U.S. interests as long as they get what they need and want, so they can be the regional superpower in the Middle East. When it comes to the moves against Iran over the last 5 to 10 years, this might be an example of where Israel's objectives are not in America's interests; since, the risk that Iran could retaliate quick enough to destroy Saudi and Gulf State oil terminals, ships and even oil wells themselves, is quite significant. And, if the Persian Gulf was shut down for any length of time, that would be a disaster for the U.S., Europe and Asia, as oil prices really take off. Israel's oil requirements are much less in comparison. It also needs to be mentioned that a lot of the foot-dragging by the Bush and Obama Administrations regarding Israel's and Saudi Arabia's insistence that the U.S. start the war, just comes out of the fact that America is an empire that stretched itself too far in declaring wars on Iraq and Afghanistan, and forwarding the costs as future debt. Even 2nd term Bush had no taste for yet another war....and that may be why so many of the Neocons were shown the door and Dick Cheney had his role downsized as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 What people don't get (except ironically the Arabs, who understand this perfectly) is that Israel is a giant forward base in that part of the world. India aside, there is no other reliable or stable country in that part of the world from Indonesia on the east to the Atlantic on the West, from the Mediterranean Sea and Turkey (no longer reliable) on the north to the Cape of Good Hope on the South, except India and Israel. India is technically non-aligned and distant, though I suppose in a pinch the West could bivouac there. That means that if Saudi Arabia has its own "Arab Spring" and "conflagrates", Israel is the only conceivable land base of operations. Thought of that way Israel is of great value to the West. I have no doubts that Israel is the forward base of operations for the U.S. most of the time, but as I've mentioned previously, I'm not a fan of colonial empires to begin with. The U.S. is not going to be able to afford the economic and resource costs of empire for much longer; so these policies are going to change, one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleeding heart Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Yes, and there's never anything sacred about alliances, sometimes misnamed "friendships," none whatsoever. Sooner or later, either the US will drop Israel like it's boiling with maggots, or Israel will drop the US as if it's a battery leaking acid. It could be a long time off, but it is a matter of time, I assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Yes, and there's never anything sacred about alliances, sometimes misnamed "friendships," none whatsoever. Sooner or later, either the US will drop Israel like it's boiling with maggots, or Israel will drop the US as if it's a battery leaking acid. It could be a long time off, but it is a matter of time, I assume. Would you enjoy the U.S. dropping Canada from the shield of its military umbrella? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) Would you enjoy the U.S. dropping Canada from the shield of its military umbrella? Oooooo....roundhouse kick to the head. Well done. Crane style. Edited November 29, 2012 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleeding heart Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Would you enjoy the U.S. dropping Canada from the shield of its military umbrella? What's this "enjoy" theme you're pulling out of your hat of tricks? I was offering a speculative opinion about the future. It has precisely zero to do with what I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.