cybercoma Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Obama should frame his latest proposal as take it or leave it, and then let America watch republican obstruction result in across the board tax hikes and spending cuts. The GOP wouldn't meet him a 10th of the way last time. It's the GOP that have said take it or leave it to Obama. Either he does exactly what they want or he gets nothing. I say Obama responds to their ultimatum in exactly the way they've offered it. They're not willing to negotiate in good faith, they get nothing and the fact of the matter is the fiscal cliff will be a result of the GOP being inflexible and offering ultimatums. Edited to add: And this time around they won't even meet him 1/50th of the way. Edited November 15, 2012 by cybercoma Quote
sharkman Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 But doing nothing will almost guarantee a recession. I just don't think it's a worthy option. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 But doing nothing will almost guarantee a recession. I just don't think it's a worthy option. Then maybe the GOP should stop acting like idiots and do something. Quote
dre Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Don't bring facts into this argument...ha That's right. But it's far easier to stick your fingers in your ears and yell about how Obama isn't doing anything, and that he has no proposal to avoid the fiscal cliff. I mean, when the Republican leadership can come out, and pretend that Obama didn't just offered to extend tax cuts for 98% of Americans while asking for nothing else.... Then go over the cliff, and make sure its really clear to Americans that the republicans failed to even acknowledge a proposal that would have kept tax cuts intact for 98% of Americans, and reduced the brunt born by the economy of reducing spending too quickly. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
cybercoma Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 I bet the GOP would be scrambling to pull something together if Romney had won. Quote
sharkman Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Then maybe the GOP should stop acting like idiots and do something. Politics 101: Never give your opponent a hammer to hit you with. That is exactly what Obama did by punting the Bush tax cuts 2 years down the road, instead of working something out THEN. He's in a pickle of his own making and is too stubborn to realize he needs to get serious about the issue instead of blaming them. Quote
dre Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Politics 101: Never give your opponent a hammer to hit you with. That is exactly what Obama did by punting the Bush tax cuts 2 years down the road, instead of working something out THEN. He's in a pickle of his own making and is too stubborn to realize he needs to get serious about the issue instead of blaming them. I hardly think hes in a pickle, I would submit that hes probably pretty happy with this scenario. Hes proposing extending tax cuts for 98% of Americans, and the republicans are publically blocking that, and by doing so taking a defacto stance that would raise taxes on 98% of people in the middle of a recession. From a political standpoint, Obama is nicely situated here. He wants to extend tax cuts to 98% of people, and the republicans are trying to stop him on behalf of 2%. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Smallc Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 That is exactly what Obama did by punting the Bush tax cuts 2 years down the road, instead of working something out THEN. He did work something out then. He and Boener had a deal. Quote
Canuckistani Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 I fail to see how Obama bears responsibility only for punting the punting the tax cuts down the road? Isn't it Congress that wants to keep them? Quote
Shady Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 Hes offering 4 trillion dollars over 10 years, 1.6 trillion in new revenue from tax hikes on the top 2%, and from raising tax on capital gains and dividends from 15% to 20%. The other 2.4 trillion will come from spending cuts. Its actually a pretty moderate and sensible proposal. At this point the economy probably cannot bear any defecit reduction plan more aggressive than that. What spending cuts? And I'm just telling you the facts. Raising the top rate back to what it was gets you $70 billion dollars per year. Obama's deficits are over a trillion. Quote
punked Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 What spending cuts? And I'm just telling you the facts. Raising the top rate back to what it was gets you $70 billion dollars per year. Obama's deficits are over a trillion. I agree Shady 70 Billion dollars more a year is 70 Billion closer to closing that Gap. Glade we agree those taxes have to go up. Quote
Smallc Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 What spending cuts? Go back and look at the deal that Obama and Boener made. Facts, Shady, facts. Quote
punked Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Go back and look at the deal that Obama and Boener made. Facts, Shady, facts. Yep he agreed to cuts to Medicare, Medicare and a number of other Democratic third rails. It the Republicans who refuse to even try to meet in the middle. Quote
Shady Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 Go back and look at the deal that Obama and Boener made. Facts, Shady, facts. The one that Obama went back on? Why? Fact is, Obamas approach isn't balanced. In Canada, we put together a deficit reduction plan that had a ratio of 1 dollar of tax increases to 6 dollars in spending cuts. Obama has to be dragged kicking and screaming to make a deal that's barely 1 dollar of tax increases to 2 dollars in spending cuts. He's not serious about proper deficit reduction. He'd consider the federal Liberals plan from the 1990s rightwing radicalism! Quote
Smallc Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 The one that Obama went back on? Why? Fact is, Obamas approach isn't balanced. In Canada, we put together a deficit reduction plan that had a ratio of 1 dollar of tax increases to 6 dollars in spending cuts. Obama has to be dragged kicking and screaming to make a deal that's barely 1 dollar of tax increases to 2 dollars in spending cuts. He's not serious about proper deficit reduction. He'd consider the federal Liberals plan from the 1990s rightwing radicalism! I said facts. These aren't facts. You just made this up. Quote
punked Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 The one that Obama went back on? Why? Fact is, Obamas approach isn't balanced. In Canada, we put together a deficit reduction plan that had a ratio of 1 dollar of tax increases to 6 dollars in spending cuts. Obama has to be dragged kicking and screaming to make a deal that's barely 1 dollar of tax increases to 2 dollars in spending cuts. He's not serious about proper deficit reduction. He'd consider the federal Liberals plan from the 1990s rightwing radicalism! No the one the Republican caucus would not accept so the Majority leader tried to change after the agreement was already made. Quote
Shady Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 Yep he agreed to cuts to Medicare, Medicare and a number of other Democratic third rails. It the Republicans who refuse to even try to meet in the middle. No he didn't. There was nothing put down on paper. No specifics. No numbers at all. Just generalities. Read Bob Woodwards book. It describes how Obama blew the debt deal. Quote
Smallc Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 No he didn't. There was nothing put down on paper. No specifics. No numbers at all. Quote
Shady Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 I said facts. These aren't facts. You just made this up. No I didn't. Those are the facts. Deal with it fanboy. Quote
Shady Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 What are the specifics of his reforms or cuts? Quote
punked Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 No he didn't. There was nothing put down on paper. No specifics. No numbers at all. Just generalities. Read Bob Woodwards book. It describes how Obama blew the debt deal. Yes Shady Business insider is lying to us all. COME ON MAN!!! Get out of the bubble it is making you dumber. http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-debt-ceiling-grand-bargain-documents-2012-11 Quote
punked Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) What are the specifics of his reforms or cuts? Here you go Shady have fun reading. http://presspass.nbc...b-woodward?lite I expect you to go hide now that you have been proven wrong once again. You know your side is never going to win the whitehouse again if you keep ignoring facts right? Your side looks crazy to everyone outside the right wing bubble. Edited November 15, 2012 by punked Quote
Smallc Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) No I didn't. Those are the facts. Deal with it fanboy. What are the specifics of his reforms or cuts? Yes Shady Business insider is lying to us all. COME ON MAN!!! Get out of the bubble it is making you dumber. http://www.businessi...cuments-2012-11 Here you go Shady have fun reading. http://presspass.nbc...b-woodward?lite I expect you to go hide now that you have been proven wrong once again. You know your side is never going to win the whitehouse again if you keep ignoring facts right? Your side looks crazy to everyone outside the right wing bubble. And people wonder why the Republicans lost...ha Edited November 15, 2012 by Smallc Quote
cybercoma Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Unbelievable, Shady. You can't possibly believe the things you post. It's just not possible. I refuse to believe it. Quote
punked Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Unbelievable, Shady. You can't possibly believe the things you post. It's just not possible. I refuse to believe it. It is insane. They have nothing so they just make stuff up as they go along. I can not get over it. Quote
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