Republican Indiana Mourdock: Rape pregancies gift from God

[punked]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E1WDxSAyaR0']

"I've struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize that life is that gift from god. And even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."

Mitt Supporting this man and is ideas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PVXKYw_r5ZY']

Edited October 24, 2012 by punked

[The_Squid]

God wants women to be raped.... Says so in the bible?

[BC_chick]

See, and this is why I don't like "God". It's all a big game to him... just ask Jacob.

Extremely high-maintenance with some bunny-boiler tendencies.

What's worse than the fool politicians who say things like this? Fools that vote for them.

Edited October 24, 2012 by BC_chick

[Topaz]

Myself , I also wonder how some people who are against abortion, always said only in special cases. Is there a gray area in abortion? IF you are against abortion than you can't be for it in special cases, abortion is abortion. I also think its up to the women that carry the child and the only judge is God that they have to answer to.

[jacee]

The guy's a f*cking creep.

[Guest American Woman]

I think people are putting the wrong spin on what Mourdock said. He believes all life is sacred, just as special, regardless of conception. He is speaking of the life, not the act of rape, not the father - nothing except the resulting "life." Is a life conceived of rape any less special? I know of/have read of women who have been raped and chose not to terminate the pregnancy and they love their child. Is this child somehow less worthy than the next? Do we visit "the sins of the father" on an innocent life?

It stands to reason, given his view on abortion, that this would be his stand. It's consistent with his belief - and as a side note, I see nothing wrong with a God who values a life conceived of rape just as much as any other.

I am pro-choice. He is not. Again, his belief is consistent with his stand - and it's his anti-choice stance that I take issue with - not the idea that he places the same value on all "life."

Edited October 24, 2012 by American Woman

[msj]

Personally, I blame the Bible for all this "legitimate rape" stuff:

Deuteronomy 22

But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.

²⁶ But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:

²⁷ For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.

I wonder what if the damsel doesn't cry? Then she get's stoned too because it's not a legitimate rape?

What if she fakes cries? What if she's some kind of black widow wannabe and seduces men and then cries out so that the men get stoned?

Anyway, enough cheekiness, let's move on:

²⁸ If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

²⁹ Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

See! No need for any abortion (well, so long as she's a virgin when taken).

Pay off the father and marry her thus making the rape legitimate before God! For he "hath humbled her" by forcing his manhood on her, or some such nonsense.

My gawd what a stupid book, yet you can see where such stupidity stems from when watching Republicans talk about women's issues.

[guyser]

I think people are putting the wrong spin on what Mourdock said. He believes all life is sacred, just as special, regardless of conception. He is speaking of the life, not the act of rape, not the father - nothing except the resulting "life." Is a life conceived of rape any less special? I know of/have read of women who have been raped and chose not to terminate the pregnancy and they love their child. Is this child somehow less worthy than the next? Do we visit "the sins of the father" on an innocent life?

Pretty darn good explanation!

Personally a life concieved from rape would be less special in my mind and I would concur with any woman wanting it out of her body asap. I would never want a law that prevents that, no matter which way future debates on abortion go.

Obviously I am not a woman, but damn , the thought of having a child from such a violent and tragic event would drive me batty. The kid would have half the DNA, may look just like him (of course she could have his features)

It stands to reason, given his view on abortion, that this would be his stand. It's consistent with his belief - and as a side note, I see nothing wrong with a God who values a life conceived of rape just as much as any other.

I am pro-choice. He is not. Again, his belief is consistent with his stand - and it's his anti-choice stance that I take issue with - not the idea that he places the same value on all "life."

Fair enough and I agree.

There is just something very 'icky' about the whole thing. All of it personal feelings on my part.

[kraychik]

We don't even need to go to TPM, ThinkProgress, or Moveon.org, we can just follow punked's posts right here on MLW. Fantastic. Meanwhile, we're supposed to pretend there's no scandal over the terrorist attack on the consulate in Benghazi.

[punked]

We don't even need to go to TPM, ThinkProgress, or Moveon.org, we can just follow punked's posts right here on MLW. Fantastic. Meanwhile, we're supposed to pretend there's no scandal over the terrorist attack on the consulate in Benghazi.

You boy Romney was the one who refused to talk about it in the debate because he knows he is on the wrong side of history. I would quite will I am ahead, or behind depending on the polling you look at.

[kraychik]

I think people are putting the wrong spin on what Mourdock said.

You think?

Of course, we're supposed to look the other way when Obama supports legislation that virtually legalises infanticide. Nevermind the fact that Obama is actually the president and nobody has ever heard of Mourdock until today. Most folks fall somewhere in the middle of the abortion question, wanting certain limits on access to it without removing it completely.

[punked]

You think?

Of course, we're supposed to look the other way when Obama supports legislation that virtually legalises infanticide. Nevermind the fact that Obama is actually the president and nobody has ever heard of Mourdock until today. Most folks fall somewhere in the middle of the abortion question, wanting certain limits on access to it without removing it completely.

Maybe you haven't herd of Mourdock but those who care know about all the close Senate races.

Most people? Most men I think is what you mean. The only vote that should count on what Women do with their bodies is Womens.

[Guest American Woman]

Pretty darn good explanation!

Personally a life concieved from rape would be less special in my mind and I would concur with any woman wanting it out of her body asap. I would never want a law that prevents that, no matter which way future debates on abortion go.

I'm pro choice, so I would never want a law that prevents that either. But again, my comments are strictly about the life, not the conception, not the pregnancy; it's not even about one's personal feelings. It's simply about the life itself, and a child conceived of rape is as special as a child conceived of love. Do you really believe otherwise? Would you look a an innocent child and conclude they are not as special, as worthy of life, as worthy of love, as the next child?

Obviously I am not a woman, but damn , the thought of having a child from such a violent and tragic event would drive me batty. The kid would have half the DNA, may look just like him (of course she could have his features)

If you were the woman, the kid would also have half of your DNA. It would be your child as much as a child conceived of love would be. I'm not arguing that women should be ok with the idea of a pregnancy resulting from rape, and of course you raise very legitimate feelings, which I can't argue. But that doesn't change the fact that the child would be as much a part of you as a child conceived of love.

I have to point out, too, that many couples who choose to have children end up having very bad relationships, some are very deeply hurt, some are physically abused, many end up hating each other - but hopefully the child they share doesn't become less special to them because of these feelings - and that's all I'm speaking of - the life/the child.

Fair enough and I agree.

There is just something very 'icky' about the whole thing. All of it personal feelings on my part.

I understand completely; as I said, I'm not arguing feelings/emotions - just the resulting life, and I happen to believe that one baby is as special and deserving as the next - and I think that's the only point Mourdock was making - which was my point - and it sounds as if we are in agreement on that.

.

[The_Squid]

Maybe god should worry more about preventing rapes than blessing women with a rape/pregnancy. That would truly be a blessing for women.

[wyly]

I also think its up to the women that carry the child and the only judge is God that they have to answer to.

and whose god? athiests do not have a god who do they answer too?...

[BC_chick]

I think people are putting the wrong spin on what Mourdock said. He believes all life is sacred, just as special, regardless of conception. He is speaking of the life, not the act of rape, not the father - nothing except the resulting "life." Is a life conceived of rape any less special? I know of/have read of women who have been raped and chose not to terminate the pregnancy and they love their child. Is this child somehow less worthy than the next? Do we visit "the sins of the father" on an innocent life?

It stands to reason, given his view on abortion, that this would be his stand. It's consistent with his belief - and as a side note, I see nothing wrong with a God who values a life conceived of rape just as much as any other.

I am pro-choice. He is not. Again, his belief is consistent with his stand - and it's his anti-choice stance that I take issue with - not the idea that he places the same value on all "life."

And I've read horror stories about women forever seeing the eyes of their rapist in their child. Other stories of the woman snapping the infant's neck the minute the baby was born.

Who wants to be a rape baby anyway? Would you want to go through life knowing you were conceived as a result of a violent act that terrified your mother? Going through school fearing other kids might find out and/or being ridiculed for it once they do? The sanctity of life doesn't end at conception you have to also consider the person's quality of life.

Sure, he may be sticking to his convictions but a little flip-flop is not a bad thing to show some humanity. This is the end of the spectrum as far as pro-life goes. Even Paul Ryan and crazy Todd Akin show more sanity on this issue.

[BC_chick]

I have to point out, too, that many couples who choose to have children end up having very bad relationships, some are very deeply hurt, some are physically abused, many end up hating each other - but hopefully the child they share doesn't become less special to them because of these feelings - and that's all I'm speaking of - the life/the child.

.

The child was not born into that situation though. Most likely they were born, loved, bonded with their parents and after the bonding had already taken place the parents ended up hating each other.

And I'm sorry, but hating your ex is nothing like hating your rapist. You don't ever chuckle at some crazy moment you shared with your rapist on that trip to Hawaii and wonder where you went wrong... it was all so amazing when it began. No, it all all started and ended with pure terror.

The comparison is not very apt.

[Guest American Woman]

And I've read horror stories about women forever seeing the eyes of their rapist in their child. Other stories of the woman snapping the infant's neck the minute the baby was born.

Women who don't feel as if they could have an abortion or raise a child conceived by rape have given the babies up for adoption, and to their adoptive families, they are a gift from God. Women have also killed their infants who weren't conceived by rape upon birth or left them to die.

Who wants to be a rape baby anyway?

Read what some people conceived of rape have to say. You'd honestly look them in the eye and tell them that they are less of a person, ask them who would want to be them?? Tell them that they'd be better off if they hadn't been born?

Would you want to go through life knowing you were conceived as a result of a violent act that terrified your mother?

How would that be my fault? What if my mother died during child birth - should I feel as if I should have never been born? That it was my fault she died? Should I got through life believing my Dad hates me because he lost his wife because of my birth?

The child is innocent. The child had nothing to do with it, and to put this connotation on the child is something that I do not understand.

Going through school fearing other kids might find out and/or being ridiculed for it once they do? The sanctity of life doesn't end at conception you have to also consider the person's quality of life.

What about all of the kids who are bullied for one reason or another? Should parents consider that their child might be bullied if they have red hair, for example, and make the determination of whether or not they should abort on that criteria? Kids are picked on and bullied for all sorts of reasons. Not all kids' parents wanted them, love them, support them. So should they have been aborted?

Who are we to determine what someone else's "quality of life" might consist of/be based on? To determine/claim that a child of rape has a lower quality of life would be very insulting to many people, I would imagine.

Sure, he may be sticking to his convictions but a little flip-flop is not a bad thing to show some humanity. This is the end of the spectrum as far as pro-life goes. Even Paul Ryan and crazy Todd Akin show more sanity on this issue.

The children of rape, who are loved and quite happy to be on this earth, think that he is showing "humanity" by placing as much value on their lives as yours and mine.

Again. This is about someone who is anti-choice - and he is anti-choice because of the value he places on life at the moment of conception - so how could that not include all life?

[Mr.Canada]

This guy is a wing nut and makes me look perfectly sane.

[Guest American Woman]

The child was not born into that situation though. Most likely they were born, loved, bonded with their parents and after the bonding had already taken place the parents ended up hating each other.

In some cases, likely most, yes; but in many other cases, children have been the result of a one-night stand (sometimes the father is unknown), or an abusive relationship, while some have been born to mothers who wanted them but fathers who did not want them and have nothing to do with them. In other cases, the mother did not want them but chose to go full term anyway. None of that make their life any less valuable.

And I'm sorry, but hating your ex is nothing like hating your rapist. You don't ever chuckle at some crazy moment you shared with your rapist on that trip to Hawaii and wonder where you went wrong... it was all so amazing when it began.

For some it might be just like that - visit a women's shelter sometime and find out just how some of them feel. Furthermore, many exes no longer share a chuckle over a trip to Hawaii - far from it - and many do not have to wonder where the marriage went wrong.

But again. That has nothing to do with the value of the life of the child. The lives of children we don't love are just as valuable as the lives of those we do - and again, I think it would be a pretty strange God who didn't value the lives of all equally.

No, it all all started and ended with pure terror.

The comparison is not very apt.

For the record, not all rapes involve "pure terror." Furthermore, my intent wasn't to "compare," just to point out that there are other situations where the mother might see the father in her children - situations where there is absolutely no love for the father. There have also been instances of the father killing the mother, and the child doesn't become hated by the maternal grandparents even if the child looks like the father.

I'm just pointing out that mothers can love their child in spite of how they feel about the father, and that the child conceived of rape is as much a part of the mother as a child conceived in love; but bottom line - the value of the life created is not any less than any other, and it's not based on whether or not the mother feels love towards them. They are a life as valuable as any other.

And that is the point being made.

[bud]

I think people are putting the wrong spin on what Mourdock said. He believes all life is sacred, just as special, regardless of conception. He is speaking of the life, not the act of rape

agreed.

i'd like to know if he feels as googooly about life and how sacred and precious it is when it comes to supporting wars.

[cybercoma]

I wonder if he's totally stoked on the preciousness of life when it's his 14-year-old daughter or his wife that is carrying a rapist's baby.

[Guest American Woman]

I wonder if he's totally stoked on the preciousness of life when it's his 14-year-old daughter or his wife that is carrying a rapist's baby.

He very well could be, although with the higher risk of death for a pregnant 14 year old, perhaps he'd feel that abortion was an option because "the mother's life is in danger." Women who believe as he does have carried pregnancies resulting from rape to term - some have kept the babies and some have put them up for adoption. By the same token, some men have accepted babies conceived by rape into their lives. It's not inconceivable that Mourdock would be among those people.

[punked]

Mitt Romney now refuses to answer any questions from the media on this.

That is the type of President we need someone who wont even answer simple questions. The Mittens Protection Program is in full swing now that it is two weeks out.

[Mr.Canada]

I am anti abortion but I understand it in cases of rape and incest, of course. Anyone who would disagree with this is insane or dishonest.