kraychik Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Yes, if I wanted to read through 50 different threads on the same issue I guess I would have noticed that! But, that official propaganda doesn't address the on-the-ground analysis from international relief groups like Save The Children that were on the Juan Cole story that I posted. If 10% of Gaza children show signs of malnutrition and over two thirds of infants and one third of pregnant women are anemic, what should that tell you about how flimsy the Israeli Government's claims are? Yeah, it's not like you're using official propaganda and fake statistics from leftist hate sites manufacturing data about malnourished "Palestinians", right? If the organisation is named "Save The Children", then it must be honest and accurate! More wisdom from an NDP drone, it seems.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Legal, illegal, depends on who you talk to in the UN. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/un-independent-panel-rules-israel-blockade-of-gaza-illegal-1.384267 Israel's naval blockade of the Gaza Strip violates international law, a panel of human rights experts reporting to a UN body said on Tuesday, disputing a conclusion reached by a separate UN probe into Israel's raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship. It's a trend I have noticed from the UN, talking out of both sides of it's mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Legal, illegal, depends on who you talk to in the UN. http://www.haaretz.c...llegal-1.384267 It's a trend I have noticed from the UN, talking out of both sides of it's mouth. don't forget that american woman claimed that UN has declared that the gaza blockade is legal. #1 - there was no declaration by the UN on the legality of the blockade. a UN declaration is something that has a much bigger weight. usually the international court of justice is involved in UN declarations. this report, as many have said was a politically charged report. #2 - her source is referring to the "naval" blockade and not the whole gaza blockade as she falsely tried to claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 don't forget that american woman claimed that UN has declared that the gaza blockade is legal. #1 - there was no declaration by the UN on the legality of the blockade. a UN declaration is something that has a much bigger weight. usually the international court of justice is involved in UN declarations. this report, as many have said was a politically charged report. #2 - her source is referring to the "naval" blockade and not the whole gaza blockade as she falsely tried to claim. #1. I didn't say that there was a "declaration," I said that the U.N. declared that the blockade was legal. Look up "declared" in the dictionary if need be. What I said is fact. #2. Clearly I was speaking of the naval blockade, since that is what we were discussing and that is what I was responding/posting in reference to. No where did I say anything about "the whole gaza blockade," much less try to claim, falsely or otherwise, that the U.N. report referred to "the whole gaza blockade." In fact, this is what I directly quoted: A United Nations panel has found that Israel's naval blockade of Gaza is legal. Apparently your dishonesty knows no bounds - and the reality that you cannot honestly refute what I have said is quite telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 http://www.google.co...ea00458d8a3848d If anyone is with holding nutrition or human rights from Gazans it's the Hamas government that want their citizens dissatisfied to use as ploys against the Israeli that ship in tons of food weekly. The PLO did the same thing. Ask an average Arab Israeli citizen if they want to move to Iran-Syria-Egypt- Iraq- Saudi Arabia etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted October 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 #1. I didn't say that there was a "declaration," I said that the U.N. declared that the blockade was legal. Look up "declared" in the dictionary if need be. What I said is fact. eh? you didn't say it was a declaration but you said U.N. declared.. blah blah? U.N. did NOT declare the blockade (naval) to be legal. a report by a politically charged commission did. the U.N. cannot take a position on reports and missions unless there is a due process. #2. Clearly I was speaking of the naval blockade, not clear enough, since you left out the word 'naval' when trying to give people a lesson on what UN has "declared". Apparently your dishonesty knows no bounds - and the reality that you cannot honestly refute what I have said is quite telling. ah, right. okay. here is another instant where you're running away from posts that rip apart your narrative and agenda: Wow. The response of a desperate man. Your attempt to pretend otherwise doesn't change a thing; the UN has declared that the blockade is legal. let's start with two things you need to learn in regards to this issue, so you'd have a better understanding of what you're trying to debate here: first, the palmer report said the naval blockade is legal. it did not make a ruling on the entire gaza blockade. it's very important that you understand that. second, the UN has not declared that the naval blockade is legal, even though that was the finding of the palmer report. this is just like how the UN has not declared that israel's blockade of gaza is illegal and is a war crime, even though that is what the goldstone report, and many human rights organizations have concluded. if you want to know more about UN declarations, go here. by the way, while we're talking about the palmer report, let's look at a tiny mention of something, that made it to the politically charged report: “Forensic evidence showing that most of the deceased were shot multiple times, including in the back, or at close range has not been adequately accounted for in the material presented by Israel.” let's also talk about criticism of the report's conclusion in regards to the naval blockade of gaza. here is one from Gisha - Legal Center for Freedom of Movement. gisha is chaired by kenneth mann, a professor at tel aviv university faculty of law. gisha's board members include dan rabinowitz, yishai blank and alaa masarwa, all also professors at tel aviv university faculty of law. here is what they say about the legality of the maritime blockade: “By preventing the passage of civilians and goods of a civilian nature to and from the Gaza Strip, Israel has paralyzed the economy of the area and caused substantial damage to key aspects of civilian life. In so doing, it has violated its obligations under international law, rendering its policy of closure – including the maritime closure – unlawful.” a lot can be learned from one post. here is what another UN panel has said about the report and the blockade: Mr. Richard Falk, Special rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the occupied Palestinian territory, stressed that “The Palmer report was aimed at political reconciliation between Israel and Turkey. It is unfortunate that in the report politics should trump the law.” Mr. Falk continued, “the most questionable move of the Palmer Panel was to separate the naval blockade from the overall closure of Gaza to a normal supply of humanitarian supplies, including supplies needed for medical operations and sanitation. The flotilla incident was about the effort to circumvent this aspect of Israeli policies, and the organizers posed no objection to inspection carried out to prevent weapons from entering Gaza.” The blockade of Gaza continues to violate international law, the experts concluded, recalling that this conclusion had been reached by the international fact-finding mission appointed by the Human Rights Council to inquire into the 31 May 2010 flotilla incident in its report of September 2010. “It is unacceptable that the human rights of the people of Gaza are disregarded because of the positions adopted by political leaders”, the experts said. “It is not the Hamas Government that is being punished, but ordinary Gazans.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) "The blockade of Gaza continues to violate international law, the experts concluded" Ridiculous to base any position on any 'experts'. Experts have agendas. You can find an expert to support any position. I am declaring myself an expert, or pundit, or maven on the subject having read extensively and weighed all the actors. I declare the blockade legal by Israel. I also, with te same credentials, declare as an expert,that Bud is biased and would not accept the truth on anything that would defend even ONE Israeli. (Qualifier; Israeli JEW.) Edited October 24, 2012 by Peeves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted October 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 "The blockade of Gaza continues to violate international law, the experts concluded" Ridiculous to base any position on any 'experts'. Experts have agendas. You can find an expert to support any position. you need to understand that goldstone and his team are considered experts. you also need to understand that amnesty international and human rights watch are also considered experts, since their job is to know international law, go to where the issues are and research what is happening. I am declaring myself an expert, you can't because you are nowhere close to knowing international law or know how to do any research. you're also incapable of being fair and just when it comes to political issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 "The blockade of Gaza continues to violate international law, the experts concluded" Ridiculous to base any position on any 'experts'. Experts have agendas. You can find an expert to support any position. I am declaring myself an expert, or pundit, or maven on the subject having read extensively and weighed all the actors. I declare the blockade legal by Israel. I also, with te same credentials, declare as an expert,that Bud is biased and would not accept the truth on anything that would defend even ONE Israeli. (Qualifier; Israeli JEW.) Indeed. It's a fallacy known as Appealing to Authority. Creationists use it all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraychik Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 "The blockade of Gaza continues to violate international law, the experts concluded" Ridiculous to base any position on any 'experts'. Experts have agendas. You can find an expert to support any position. I am declaring myself an expert, or pundit, or maven on the subject having read extensively and weighed all the actors. I declare the blockade legal by Israel. I also, with te same credentials, declare as an expert,that Bud is biased and would not accept the truth on anything that would defend even ONE Israeli. (Qualifier; Israeli JEW.) Yeah, Navi Pillay, Richard Falk,and Louise Arbour are TOTALLY reliable "experts". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Yeah, it's not like you're using official propaganda and fake statistics from leftist hate sites manufacturing data about malnourished "Palestinians", right? If the organisation is named "Save The Children", then it must be honest and accurate! More wisdom from an NDP drone, it seems.... Save The Children is a registered charity who have relief workers on the ground in Gaza and know the situation first hand. You would know that if you were familiar with the concept of making charitable donations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 "name='kraychik' timestamp='1351021861' post='844607'] The assertions that those in Gazan are being shorted on calories and malnourished, let alone starved as a function of the blockade, is either a vicious lie from a malicious propagandist trying to smear Israel and Jews," TRUNCATED FOR SPACE AND BREVITY Smearing is a typical ploy of anti-Semites. Just as the Germans propaganda used the Jews, so do Arab supporters today. Emphasis mine. Who is being naive about Gaza? http://fullcomment.n...snt-hold-water/ "Canada Boat to Gaza spokeswoman Andrea Summers writes: “According to the World Health Organization, because of the blockade, 90% of the Gaza drinking water is unfit for human consumption with 70% of Gaza’s children suffering from anemia.” Wrong. The water in Gaza is unfit for human consumption due to the high levels of nitrates caused by the widespread use of manure in agricultural cultivation. I’ll leave it up to Ms. Summers to explain how the blockade creates manure. With regards to nutrition of children her numbers are a total fabrication. World Health Organization (WHO) stats show that in the period between 2005-2011, the level of malnutrition among children was 5.4% in Egypt, 4.5% in oil rich Saudi Arabia and 2.2% in Gaza and the West Bank. In fact, WHO and UNICEF data confirm that various parameters measuring health care, such as infant mortality and sex and age-related disease and mortality, show much better levels in Gaza and the West Bank than in all countries in the Middle East and North Africa, except for Israel. Maybe, in order to improve their health-care standards, these countries should ask Israel to “occupy” and “blockade” them." Dr. Steve Samuel, Toronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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