Another murder over cultural issue.

[Black Dog]

Buttons?

Tell me what the logical fallacy is.

[DogOnPorch]

Tell me what the logical fallacy is.

Generalization.

[Black Dog]

Generalization.

So you don't agree that these societies devalue women?

Edited October 17, 2012 by Black Dog

[Mr.Canada]

Because we don't perpetuate violence against women?

Domestic violence is the single greatest cause of injury to women in America - more than muggings,rapes,and car accidents combined. A woman in the United States is more likely to be killed by her partner than by any other assailant.

http://www.cambridge.../defending.html

I see so by your rationale since we already have murder in Canada we should welcome murderers as well then. Absurd. This cultural honour violence isn't the same as some random guy slapping his wife as you're trying to very hard to say it is.

Uh and that's only true because people who are spouses spend the majority of their time together than any other assailant. You need to learn to think beyond your own brain.

[DogOnPorch]

So you don't agree that these societies devalue women?

All women in those societies don't feel devalued. Some like the current system while others do not. Some know no better and can't tell valued from devalued. Some assist the men in their oppression while others fight back.

[Black Dog]

All women in those societies don't feel devalued. Some like the current system while others do not. Some know no better and can't tell valued from devalued. Some assist the men in their oppression while others fight back.

Yeah, I know. I never said otherwise. I have no idea what you're arguing about.

[DogOnPorch]

Yeah, I know. I never said otherwise. I have no idea what you're arguing about.

You were projecting values onto Mr Canada that he might or might not hold. There's also a word for that.

Edited October 17, 2012 by DogOnPorch

[Black Dog]

You were projecting values onto Mr Canada that he might or might not hold. There's also a word for that.

I'm simply following his logic. If you don't let these people in because their cultural values aren't compatible with ours, then you ensure there culture remains backwards and stagnant.

[jacee]

The situation would have to be looked at closely and reviewed. They would need to apply like everyone else does and not just show up at our doorstep begging for handouts.

They need to go through the proper channels, apply and if they are deemed to be of use to us they can come here but only if they are of some use to us. We cannot take in everyone just to make the bleeding hearts happy. We have real Canadians who are in need and we need to look after that first.

So Canada should not accept any refugees?

Even when, eg, CANADIAN MINING COMPANIES displace people in their own country and cause strife, civil war, famine, etc?

http://www.schnoorversuscanada.ca/timeline.html

http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/4816

http://www.miningwatch.ca/canadian-gold-mining-interests-involved-police-shootings-ghana-west-africa

http://www.miningwatch.ca/canadian-mining-companies-profit-burmas-misery

[Guest American Woman]

I'm simply following his logic. If you don't let these people in because their cultural values aren't compatible with ours, then you ensure there culture remains backwards and stagnant.

How does letting them into Canada change their country's culture?

[Black Dog]

How does letting them into Canada change their country's culture?

It doesn't. It changes the immigrant's culture.

[jacee]

I see so by your rationale since we already have murder in Canada we should welcome murderers as well then. Absurd. This cultural honour violence isn't the same as some random guy slapping his wife as you're trying to very hard to say it is.

Uh and that's only true because people who are spouses spend the majority of their time together than any other assailant. You need to learn to think beyond your own brain.

No, spousal murder is not "the same as some random guy slapping his wife".

You've certainly revealed your ignorance about domestic violence in our country.

Between 2000 and 2009, there were 738 spousal homicides, representing 16% of all solved homicides and nearly half (47%) of all family-related homicides. The 2009 spousal homicide rate remained stable for the third consecutive year. This follows nearly three decades of gradual decline. Women continue to be more likely than men to be victims of spousal homicide. In 2009, the rate of spousal homicide against women was about three times higher than that for men.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-224-x/2010000/aftertoc-aprestdm2-eng.htm

My point ... There are domestic homicides in Canada too.

Is that because of our 'culture'?

[Mr.Canada]

My point ... There are domestic homicides in Canada too.

Is that because of our 'culture'?

no, it's not but it is when they do it because it is part of their culture that a woman is lower than a man and worth less. A woman must not dishonour the family or they can be killed. That is part of the culture there and not here until we import that culture.

[Guest American Woman]

no, it's not but it is when they do it because it is part of their culture that a woman is lower than a man and worth less. A woman must not dishonour the family or they can be killed. That is part of the culture there and not here until we import that culture.

You're not going to "import the culture" because it won't be tolerated in Canada. ie: it won't become Canada's culture. You may import the cultural mindset in some instances with some individuals, but again, it won't be tolerated. In fact, anyone who engages in that violence could very well be facing tougher repercussions in Canada than they would have if they stayed in their own country, so perhaps that would act as a deterrent for such minded individuals regarding immigration to Canada.

If you are using this as an argument to keep Indians out of Canada, I believe your thinking/reasoning is as flawed as those who are insisting that there is no difference between "dowry deaths/violence" and violence against women in our countries. You are both doing them a huge disservice.

[Mr.Canada]

it wont change a thing. Nothing I say will. Canada will continue to transition from a mostly white country to a mostly non white country. With that transition we''ll have to accommodate all sorts of cultures that haven't traditionally been a part of Canada. In another 10 years we'll have Sharia Law, that will be the start. After that we'll have all sorts of backward things accepted but the chattering class will have brought it on themselves and I will laugh from my deathbed.

[Black Dog]

it wont change a thing. Nothing I say will. Canada will continue to transition from a mostly white country to a mostly non white country. With that transition we''ll have to accommodate all sorts of cultures that haven't traditionally been a part of Canada. In another 10 years we'll have Sharia Law, that will be the start. After that we'll have all sorts of backward things accepted but the chattering class will have brought it on themselves and I will laugh from my deathbed.

You continue to miss the fact that people who come to Canada and subsequently commit crimes are punished for it. No one is making any special exceptions for honour killings. I have no idea what your issue is here (though the "non-white" thing is a bit of a indication.)

[Mr.Canada]

You continue to miss the fact that people who come to Canada and subsequently commit crimes are punished for it. No one is making any special exceptions for honour killings. I have no idea what your issue is here (though the "non-white" thing is a bit of a indication.)

BD, I'm not missing the point at all. The point is that Canada is importing cultures that run contrary to our own. it's dangerous and it's costing people lives because the man feels he's losing his God like grip on his wife and/or daughters so they must be killed.

You made a good point about the women starting assimilate, perhaps many are and that's great. but for every one of those good ones we have many others still walking around in their cultural garb. This is unacceptable to me. This garb is the shackle that holds them down and they need to free themselves of this bondage.

However once they do these brave women and girls and slaughtered by the men who will not have their wife or daughter even talk to a man.

We need to better educate these women killing cultures quickly to prevent others from being slaughtered like the lamb. They need to understand that honour killing is not ok in Canada.

[Black Dog]

BD, I'm not missing the point at all. The point is that Canada is importing cultures that run contrary to our own. it's dangerous and it's costing people lives because the man feels he's losing his God like grip on his wife and/or daughters so they must be killed.

I'm going to say it's probably safe to assume that for every incident we read about where someone kills their daughters (for example), there's probably many more cases where the girls might actually be allowed to dabble in western culture.

You made a good point about the women starting assimilate, perhaps many are and that's great. but for every one of those good ones we have many others still walking around in their cultural garb. This is unacceptable to me. This garb is the shackle that holds them down and they need to free themselves of this bondage.

So what? I don't like it, but it's not my place to demand changes in how people dress.

However once they do these brave women and girls and slaughtered by the men who will not have their wife or daughter even talk to a man.

Some do. Many others don't.

We need to better educate these women killing cultures quickly to prevent others from being slaughtered like the lamb. They need to understand that honour killing is not ok in Canada.

And how do you propose we educate people when you don't want them allowed in in the first place?

[Mr.Canada]

I'm going to say it's probably safe to assume that for every incident we read about where someone kills their daughters (for example), there's probably many more cases where the girls might actually be allowed to dabble in western culture.

Well t he daughters have to go to school and the mothers need t o shop but if you notice they always try to stay in areas that are as homogeneous as possible having as little to do with Canadians as possible.

We are the devil to them, they don't like us and don't want to like us and are only here to rape the country. They don't love it like we do.

So what? I don't like it, but it's not my place to demand changes in how people dress.

Sure it is. This is our country not theirs, if they wish to be our guests they should listen to our demands or find someplace else to go. France is doing it, why can't we?

And how do you propose we educate people when you don't want them allowed in in the first place?

Simple. When they want to apply as n immigrant from their homeland we educate the mat that point and keep educating them until they understand. Any that who attempt to jump the queue and just show up get sent back f or their re education before being allowed to come to Canada. Coming here is a privileged not a right. We have many immigrants who are doing great but many others who are not.

[Black Dog]

Well t he daughters have to go to school and the mothers need t o shop but if you notice they always try to stay in areas that are as homogeneous as possible having as little to do with Canadians as possible.

Maybe in Halton. I see lots of Muslim women in my day to day here in downtown Toronto.

We are the devil to them, they don't like us and don't want to like us and are only here to rape the country. They don't love it like we do.

That's a pretty out-there statement. Have you any proof "they" all feel that way?

Sure it is. This is our country not theirs, if they wish to be our guests they should listen to our demands or find someplace else to go. France is doing it, why can't we?

Because how can we say we are a country that values freedom of religion and freedom of expression if we dictate what people can and cannot wear?

Simple. When they want to apply as n immigrant from their homeland we educate the mat that point and keep educating them until they understand. Any that who attempt to jump the queue and just show up get sent back f or their re education before being allowed to come to Canada. Coming here is a privileged not a right. We have many immigrants who are doing great but many others who are not.

As I said elsewhere: I'm all for improving services to help new immigrants acclimatize and assimilate better. But that's not really the line you were taking earlier when you said:

Point is they shouldn't be allowed in Canada to begin with. If a culture is counter to our own they should automatically be dq'd. Not welcome.

[Guest]

My point ... There are domestic homicides in Canada too.

Is that because of our 'culture'?

Actually, no. We frown upon it.

We don't offer tacit approval.

What is it about about calling out cultures on their worst practices that makes liberals sqeamish? Honestly, it's not racist. It really isn't. You can express disgust at honour killings and still go to NDP rallies and G20 protests. Really you can.

[Guest Peeves]

Are some here taking the position that Canada or Australia, or America...etc. Should have no criteria for denying entry of foreigners ? Anyone with the ability or means to reach our borders should be automatically accepted?

OR

Is there reasonable expectations that as the host country 'we' set the criteria, conditions, and standards we will accept or deny entry and fix the period necessary before granting citizenship.

http://www.justlanded.com/english/Canada/Canada-Guide/Visas-Permits/Canadian-Citizenship

[jacee]

Actually, no. We frown upon it.

We don't offer tacit approval.

What is it about about calling out cultures on their worst practices that makes liberals sqeamish? Honestly, it's not racist. It really isn't.

Tarring a whole 'culture' for the actions of a few unbalanced members.

Yes, it really is racist.

[Guest]

Tarring a whole 'culture' for the actions of a few unbalanced members.

Yes, it really is racist.

No it most certainly isn't. It might be "culturist", but it has absolutely nothing to do with race.

The culture dictates whether actions are normal and accepted or not. Not the race. If a member of a certain culture comes to Canada and adapts, do you think their race will dictate that they continue the practices that were accepted at home?

Like I said, squeamish.

[jacee]

No it most certainly isn't. It might be "culturist", but it has absolutely nothing to do with race.

The culture dictates whether actions are normal and accepted or not. Not the race. If a member of a certain culture comes to Canada and adapts, do you think their race will dictate that they continue the practices that were accepted at home?

Like I said, squeamish.

Like I said ... racist. Your word.

But you can call it what you want ... bigoted, prejudiced, xenophobic, discrimination ... it's all of those too: Discriminating against a whole group/'culture', because of the actions of a (deranged ) few.