Anti Pipeline Teaching Materials in BC

[socialist]

I really like what the BC teachers union is doing here promoting social justice. we need to be concerned about this pipeline and the damage it will do to the fragile environment. kids need to learn these things and need to hear them often. KUDOS to the BC teachers union for advocating for social justice and the environment.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/10/03/b-c-teachers-union-defends-anti-pipeline-teaching-materials/

[Guest]

I really like what the BC teachers union is doing here promoting social justice. we need to be concerned about this pipeline and the damage it will do to the fragile environment. kids need to learn these things and need to hear them often. KUDOS to the BC teachers union for advocating for social justice and the environment.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/10/03/b-c-teachers-union-defends-anti-pipeline-teaching-materials/

I find it ridiculous that the poor children of BC are being subjected to this kind of indoctrination.

One more reason why unions can be considered completely redundant today.

These are teachers. Teachers who are less interested in the education of their charges that they are in the perpetuation of their misguided ideological bent.

At least the material is optional, according to article. Those teachers who wish to get to work by other means than walking can avoid the hypocrisy.

[socialist]

I find it ridiculous that the poor children of BC are being subjected to this kind of indoctrination.

One more reason why unions can be considered completely redundant today.

These are teachers. Teachers who are less interested in the education of their charges that they are in the perpetuation of their misguided ideological bent.

At least the material is optional, according to article. Those teachers who wish to get to work by other means than walking can avoid the hypocrisy.

These lessons are very popular in classrooms. that's why they were produced. it is not indoctrination to teach the youth to protect the earth for future generations.

[Guest]

These lessons are very popular in classrooms. that's why they were produced. it is not indoctrination to teach the youth to protect the earth for future generations.

It is indoctrination to present one side only. Especially if that side is wrong, and motivated by ideology

[madmax]

At least the material is optional, according to article. Those teachers who wish to get to work by other means than walking can avoid the hypocrisy.

Yes they are optional.

A pipeline is to allow foreigners to drive.... and the Province of BC assume the risk.

I am laughing that there are some so up in arms over this.

Infact, if one is suggesting that there is only "One side" thats ok.

Grab the information from the "other side" and teach the whole thing.

Regardless, it has been known that companies provide "educational" materials for schools and I am certain its well balanced and covers both sides

I was taught the value of the tar sands and its future for energy for Canadians.

Never did I hear about an enviromental impact, nor how little of that oil would be used in Canada.

Times change, mix it up.

Teachers are supposed to seek information.

If its NOT factual, then dispute the facts.

But I don't think thats the issue.

[Michael Hardner]

Regardless, it has been known that companies provide "educational" materials for schools and I am certain its well balanced and covers both sides

Interesting point - is the BC union ostensibly a professional society ? If so, then they can offer material, especially if there's nothing to balance existing material.

But the real value would be in teaching the students how to evaluate issues, and to debate. They probably won't send them to MLW...

[jacee]

It is indoctrination to present one side only. Especially if that side is wrong, and motivated by ideology

It's "wrong" to address issues about environmental impacts of pipelines?

Oil and pipeline companies do it all the time ... so they tell us!

Are you saying they're just flapping their mouths without meaning what they say? :lol:

[bleeding heart]

It's "wrong" to address issues about environmental impacts of pipelines?

Oil and pipeline companies do it all the time ... so they tell us!

That's because the companies are free from bias, and produce objective facts, simple reportage.

[PIK]

They all should be dismissed.Whatever happened to teacng the basics, instead of trying to make little dippers out of them.

[TimG]

It's "wrong" to address issues about environmental impacts of pipelines?

As long as the teachers explain that the money made from selling oil is used to pay their salaries and pensions.

[Topaz]

Myself I see nothing wrong with teachers debating about this in class as long as both sides are revealed. The teacher could divide the class in half and one group gets the Con view and other other Pro view. This will teach the students to learn to work together, research information etc. So what's the downside, other than acting like MP's?

[Wild Bill]

Myself I see nothing wrong with teachers debating about this in class as long as both sides are revealed. The teacher could divide the class in half and one group gets the Con view and other other Pro view. This will teach the students to learn to work together, research information etc. So what's the downside, other than acting like MP's?

Maybe I'm too cynical Topaz but I believe that the BC teachers would rather not teach about such issues at all if they were forced to present BOTH sides!

In fact, I'm not sure if they believe there ARE too sides to such things! They seem to think that they are right about everything and anyone who disagrees must not just be wrong but also an evil lackey of corporations.

Just as the sun rises in the east every morning!

It's just the sort of people that they are...

[madmax]

Maybe I'm too cynical Topaz but I believe that the BC teachers would rather not teach about such issues at all if they were forced to present BOTH sides!

In fact, I'm not sure if they believe there ARE too sides to such things! They seem to think that they are right about everything and anyone who disagrees must not just be wrong but also an evil lackey of corporations.

Just as the sun rises in the east every morning!

It's just the sort of people that they are...

Hey,

Lets Sell Leaded Gas

Lets Get Rid of EFI

Lets make cars heavier and more bricklike.

Lets get rid of radials and use bias plies.

Lets teach no science or environment.

Lets teach that the world is flat

Lets teach that the Sun revolves around the earth.

Of course, sometimes the above is THE OTHER SIDE....

[jacee]

As long as the teachers explain that the money made from selling oil is used to pay their salaries and pensions.

No it's not.

These are BC teachers.

Alberta doesn't share it's oil revenues with BC ... remember?

[TimG]

Alberta doesn't share it's oil revenues with BC ... remember?

So? Natural resources are the backbone of revenues for all Canadian governments. All natural resource extraction comes with risks. It is irresponsible to teach any lesson on the environmental risks without including a discussion of how much our lifestyle depends on taking these risks.

[Wild Bill]

Hey,

Lets Sell Leaded Gas

Lets Get Rid of EFI

Lets make cars heavier and more bricklike.

Lets get rid of radials and use bias plies.

Lets teach no science or environment.

Lets teach that the world is flat

Lets teach that the Sun revolves around the earth.

Of course, sometimes the above is THE OTHER SIDE....

Let's teach that DDT is always bad and should be totally banned.

Then we can watch 500,000 children die each year in Africa from malaria...

Easy to pick the good ones in hindsight, Max. The problem is that these teachers are starting off in advance. They need foresight, not hindsight.

Worse yet, they don't seem to think they NEED foresight! They think they already have the gospel.

[socialist]

Let's teach that DDT is always bad and should be totally banned.

Then we can watch 500,000 children die each year in Africa from malaria...

Easy to pick the good ones in hindsight, Max. The problem is that these teachers are starting off in advance. They need foresight, not hindsight.

Worse yet, they don't seem to think they NEED foresight! They think they already have the gospel.

ddt killed a lot of birds and made their shells weak.

[AngusThermopyle]

ddt killed a lot of birds and made their shells weak.

So is it your contention that the lives saved in Africa were'nt worth it because of the birds?

[socialist]

So is it your contention that the lives saved in Africa were'nt worth it because of the birds?

i've never heard of lives being saved in africa. perhaps you could provide a source?

[AngusThermopyle]

My link

Here you go. This article is'nt specific to Africa but rather deals with the control of Malaria in rural area's. However a quick Google will bring up a plethora of like articles, many specific to Africa. DDT has saved many many lives on that continent. As I'm sure you already know, Malaria is a terrible disease with no known cure once contracted. Only controls are availlable once one has it.

[Wild Bill]

ddt killed a lot of birds and made their shells weak.

Yes, it did. However, so will a lot of chemicals and things. DDT was used for decades without any controls or rules of any kind. That's why it became a problem.

However, if used properly and in a controlled manner, you save the birds AND children!

That was my point. Teachers and others who had no real knowledge of the science involved just took the easy way out and got a total ban implemented.

Whenever you mention a half a million african children dying each year because of nothing like DDT to kill the mosquitoes that carry malaria those that supported the ban seem to just close their ears and dodge the issue.

Meanwhile, someone like me, who actually gives a damn for those poor children, is often branded a mean-spirited rightwinger by many of those same teacher activists, like yourself!

It is issues like the DDT ban and the malaria deaths that have soured me on many leftwing causes over the years. When I dig into them a bit it often seems to be a case of big hearts but small brains.

[jacee]

So? Natural resources are the backbone of revenues for all Canadian governments. All natural resource extraction comes with risks. It is irresponsible to teach any lesson on the environmental risks without including a discussion of how much our lifestyle depends on taking these risks.

How much does it ... really?

Federal tax revenues from oil?

Corporate tax breaks and SUBSIDIES - ie corporate welfare - flowing back to Alberta ... pretty much a zero sum game, isn't it?

Correct me if I'm wrong ... but I'm very skeptical about that claim.

I do agree, though, that exploring these issues with students is a good idea ... the environmental issues AND the lifestyle changes necessary for sustainable living.

Contrary to some misperceptions promoted here ... good teaching isn't about telling kids what to think, but giving them access to information, resources to explore to inform their own thoughts and actions.

I'm not sure why it's so threatening to talk truth about the risks involved for the public/taxpayer.

No job is done properly unless risks are managed.

Enbridge pipeline company, for example, hasn't been mannaging its risks very well, being careless, hiding information, etc., so clearly public information, consultation and intervention is required.

A U.S. safety board report likened Enbridge's response to the Michigan spill to the bumbling "Keystone Kops" for failing to detect the leak and then responding poorly.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/energy-board-cites-enbridge-in-safety-paper-1.944737

And Enbridge is refusing to supply that report to the Northern Gateway Review, predictably.

Perhaps ...

'Never trust the moneymakers with the air you breathe, the water you drink, the land that grows your food'

... is a lesson that should have been taught in school generations ago!

[jacee]

Yes, it did. However, so will a lot of chemicals and things. DDT was used for decades without any controls or rules of any kind. That's why it became a problem.

However, if used properly and in a controlled manner, you save the birds AND children!

That was my point. Teachers and others who had no real knowledge of the science involved just took the easy way out and got a total ban implemented.

Whenever you mention a half a million african children dying each year because of nothing like DDT to kill the mosquitoes that carry malaria those that supported the ban seem to just close their ears and dodge the issue.

Meanwhile, someone like me, who actually gives a damn for those poor children, is often branded a mean-spirited rightwinger by many of those same teacher activists, like yourself!

It is issues like the DDT ban and the malaria deaths that have soured me on many leftwing causes over the years. When I dig into them a bit it often seems to be a case of big hearts but small brains.

DDT may be the lesser of two evils in some places where malaria is an issue but it isn't 'safe' by any measure:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ddt-use-to-combat-malaria

we are particularly concerned about the potential effects of continued DDT use on future generations."

[PIK]

ddt killed a lot of birds and made their shells weak.

And the turbines are slaughtering bird and bats by the 1000's as we speak, but that is OK.

[jacee]

And the turbines are slaughtering bird and bats by the 1000's as we speak, but that is OK.

But the wind turbines are not contaminating our food chain and bodies and babies, nor bringing species to extinction.

And the topic of discussion here is oil sands pipelines, not ddt, particularly whether the benefits and risks should be discussed in schools.

Of course the people making money off the oil sands and pipelines would prefer that the public not discuss it at all ... but considering past and present performance, Enbridge in particular, it clearly is absolutely necessary for the public to get involved in considering whether the benefits outweigh the risks, and how the risks should be managed.

Edited October 5, 2012 by jacee