Tainted meat

[Topaz]

I was just wondering since another tainted meat mess has come to the attention of Canadians, where do you buy your meat, grocery store or abattoirs? I buy ours at an abattoir because I know where the meat is coming from and there has never been a problem. Also, the hamburger or ground beef taste better.

[Guest]

I was just wondering since another tainted meat mess has come to the attention of Canadians, where do you buy your meat, grocery store or abattoirs? I buy ours at an abattoir because I know where the meat is coming from and there has never been a problem. Also, the hamburger or ground beef taste better.

Mainly at a farmers market from trusted suppliers who don't use growth hormones or antibiotics. Mostly poultry and bison.

Fish we're a little less strict with. Still won't eat farmed salmon though.

Edited October 3, 2012 by bcsapper

[carepov]

Still won't eat farmed salmon though.

Do you mind if I ask, why not?

[carepov]

I was just wondering since another tainted meat mess has come to the attention of Canadians, where do you buy your meat, grocery store or abattoirs? I buy ours at an abattoir because I know where the meat is coming from and there has never been a problem. Also, the hamburger or ground beef taste better.

I buy at the supermarket. I cook my meat to kill e-coli and other bacteria.

[Guest]

Do you mind if I ask, why not?

Because of the chemicals and antibiotics used in the farming. Same reason I won't eat meat that isn't organic. Or veg, come to that.

And by won't, I mean I try my best. I'm not fanatical about any of it. I travel in my job and I have to eat in restaurants so I have no guarantees. I never eat salmon in restaurants because I'm just not that keen on it, so the only salmon I eat is the stuff my wife buys, which is always wild.

[carepov]

Because of the chemicals and antibiotics used in the farming. Same reason I won't eat meat that isn't organic. Or veg, come to that.

And by won't, I mean I try my best. I'm not fanatical about any of it. I travel in my job and I have to eat in restaurants so I have no guarantees. I never eat salmon in restaurants because I'm just not that keen on it, so the only salmon I eat is the stuff my wife buys, which is always wild.

I am interested because I am currently reading "Confessions of a Greenpeace Dropout: the making of a Sensible Environmentalist" by Patrick Moore and just finished the chapter about salmon farming. Moore thoroughly debunked the myths about the "dangers" in salmon farming and even explained that most "wild" salmon from Alaska is actually more like "salmon ranching". It made sense to me and I mostly trust his opinion but I still have some doubt because he was a salmon farmer so perhaps he was not entirely objective.

He also explains that "organic" is a useless and scientifically invalid description. It's basically a marketing ploy. I'm not against anyone buying only "wild" salmon or "organic" food (like you not a fanatic), but I will not waste my money on it and would not encourage others either.

[Mr.Canada]

Depends sometimes from supermarket but we try not to because of the reasons you stated. Out here where we live we have tons of smaller farms and slaughterhouses. We live in a small village between Georgetown and Acton in Halton.

[msj]

Do you mind if I ask, why not?

Because farmed taste like tasteless soft gooey crap?

[Guest]

I am interested because I am currently reading "Confessions of a Greenpeace Dropout: the making of a Sensible Environmentalist" by Patrick Moore and just finished the chapter about salmon farming. Moore thoroughly debunked the myths about the "dangers" in salmon farming and even explained that most "wild" salmon from Alaska is actually more like "salmon ranching". It made sense to me and I mostly trust his opinion but I still have some doubt because he was a salmon farmer so perhaps he was not entirely objective.

He also explains that "organic" is a useless and scientifically invalid description. It's basically a marketing ploy. I'm not against anyone buying only "wild" salmon or "organic" food (like you not a fanatic), but I will not waste my money on it and would not encourage others either.

I eat organic food because of what it does not contain, not because of what it does contain. I saw the recent study from Stanford that said that organic food is no better for a person because the levels of pesticide in other produce is too low to be harmful, but why eat any if you don't have to? And I didn't read anything about the cumulative effects of pesticides, or combination of pesticides, or the half lifes in the body of pesticides, in the articles I read. They might have been covered in the study, I don't know. I just choose not to ingest them. The same with hormones and antibiotics.

I know people who will spend money on making a vehicle look good, with no increase in performance or economy of fuel consumption. I believe there are people who will spend their money on a basketball game, or a Hollywood comedy film, or an Iphone5 when they already have an Iphone4. There are a myriad ways to waste one's money. If my wife and I are wasting ours, well, at least we're not at a basketball game.

[bleeding heart]

I know people who will spend money on making a vehicle look good, with no increase in performance or economy of fuel consumption. I believe there are people who will spend their money on a basketball game, or a Hollywood comedy film, or an Iphone5 when they already have an Iphone4. There are a myriad ways to waste one's money. If my wife and I are wasting ours, well, at least we're not at a basketball game.

Well, as you say, you're not a fanatic about it, you're not remonstrating with people to try to move them towards your own habits and activities...so there's obviously no problem.

[carepov]

I eat organic food because of what it does not contain, not because of what it does contain. I saw the recent study from Stanford that said that organic food is no better for a person because the levels of pesticide in other produce is too low to be harmful, but why eat any if you don't have to? And I didn't read anything about the cumulative effects of pesticides, or combination of pesticides, or the half lifes in the body of pesticides, in the articles I read. They might have been covered in the study, I don't know. I just choose not to ingest them. The same with hormones and antibiotics.

Just to let you know, “organic” produce may also contain pesticides as per their “list of [arbitrarily] allowed substances”. In some cases these pesticides are worse than "non-organic" pesticides. I am convinced that “organic” produce is as safe as “non-organic”. "Organic" is a waste but as you said there is so much other waste – probably not a big deal.

[Topaz]

Health wise, farmed fish doesn't have the benefits that ocean or lake fish have and of course some fish in some lakes are not healthy to eat. The hormones that farmers give their animals is transferred to humans and that's one of the reasons for humans being over weight, among other reasons. Our food in North America isn't as healthy as it once was including wheat, which also make humans fatter.

[carepov]

Health wise, farmed fish doesn't have the benefits that ocean or lake fish have and of course some fish in some lakes are not healthy to eat. The hormones that farmers give their animals is transferred to humans and that's one of the reasons for humans being over weight, among other reasons. Our food in North America isn't as healthy as it once was including wheat, which also make humans fatter.

Of the six claims you are making, the only one that I believe is: "some fish in some lakes are not healthy to eat".

On what basis are you making the other five claims?

[Topaz]

Of the six claims you are making, the only one that I believe is: "some fish in some lakes are not healthy to eat".

On what basis are you making the other five claims?

I've watched health programs and it does make sense. If the hormones are within the tissues of the animals then when humans eat the the animal, its transferred to human. The wheat, isn't the same as it was 25 years ago. The industry has changed it so there is more gluten in it which turns to sugars, which causes more humans to get diabetes. Believe me, I was shocked when I heard this too.

[GostHacked]

I've watched health programs and it does make sense. If the hormones are within the tissues of the animals then when humans eat the the animal, its transferred to human. The wheat, isn't the same as it was 25 years ago. The industry has changed it so there is more gluten in it which turns to sugars, which causes more humans to get diabetes. Believe me, I was shocked when I heard this too.

One reason why rBGH was banned in Canada. However, the anti-biotics and other growth hormones are now mixed in with the feed if not genetically modified right into the feed. So they are still getting these growth hormones into the livestock. Might not be rBGH but seems to mimic what rBGH does.

[carepov]

I've watched health programs and it does make sense. If the hormones are within the tissues of the animals then when humans eat the the animal, its transferred to human. The wheat, isn't the same as it was 25 years ago. The industry has changed it so there is more gluten in it which turns to sugars, which causes more humans to get diabetes. Believe me, I was shocked when I heard this too.

Please do not take it personally when I say that I don't believe you, I am a sceptical person by nature. I would have assumed that an increase in obesity/diabetes had more to do with poor diet (eating more fat and sugar) and lack of exercise. Also, life expectancy is increasing in Canada therefore I would assume that we are actually getting healthier. Can you provide some credible links for your claims?

[segnosaur]

I eat organic food because of what it does not contain, not because of what it does contain. I saw the recent study from Stanford that said that organic food is no better for a person because the levels of pesticide in other produce is too low to be harmful, but why eat any if you don't have to?

Because the alternative (organic food) is roughly 8 times more likely to give you E-coli poisoning.

Oh, and on top of that, as carepov pointed out, organic food often contains 'organic' pesticides, such as pyrethrin (which, if I remember, is considered a carcinogen.) But don't worry, they only have to use around 3 times the amount of pytherin as they would need to get the same effect as a synthetic pesticide.

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4019?popular=true

[GostHacked]

Please do not take it personally when I say that I don't believe you, I am a sceptical person by nature. I would have assumed that an increase in obesity/diabetes had more to do with poor diet (eating more fat and sugar) and lack of exercise. Also, life expectancy is increasing in Canada therefore I would assume that we are actually getting healthier. Can you provide some credible links for your claims?

Maybe we can genetically modify potato chips with some vitamin A.

High concentrated glucose-fructose, is corn sugar which is in 99% of soft drinks. This alone is linked to diabetes.

And read the labels on the foods you by. Some of what is in there will raise some eyebrows.

[Topaz]

Please do not take it personally when I say that I don't believe you, I am a sceptical person by nature. I would have assumed that an increase in obesity/diabetes had more to do with poor diet (eating more fat and sugar) and lack of exercise. Also, life expectancy is increasing in Canada therefore I would assume that we are actually getting healthier. Can you provide some credible links for your claims?

Here's another link to what I was saying, but the TV show THE VIEW had on a specialist in food and he said the last 45 years wheat has gotten more gluten than ever before and the Dr. Oz show has done shows on this too. http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/hormones/

[Topaz]

About the tainted meat, I was wondering why XL or the government of Canada hadn't inspected the meat before it went to the US border, where is was found. It seems to me that a business would want good quality produce, especially when it going out of country. This is worse for XL than Maple Leaf and today, the minister really said little and then when the media started asking questions, the minister press secretary cut short the Q&A period. Many people are sick out West and I heard a 4 year is having problems with his kidneys.

[Guest]

Because the alternative (organic food) is roughly 8 times more likely to give you E-coli poisoning.

I eat raw milk cheese too.

Never had any kind of poisoning. It must be just that I'm naturally healthy, in spite of all the organic food I eat.

[segnosaur]

Here's another link to what I was saying, but the TV show THE VIEW had on a specialist in food and he said the last 45 years wheat has gotten more gluten than ever before and the Dr. Oz show has done shows...

Just to let you know...

Neither The View nor Dr. Oz should be considered serious journalism, as both shows have shown a willingness to broadcast complete nonsense on their shows.

For example, The View regularly has psychics as guests (e.g. John Edwards, the Psychic twins). Any show which will allow cold readers to show up on their show unchallenged doesn't deserve consideration.

Dr. Oz is not any better, as he has promoted such nonsense as homeopathy and faith healing. (See: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/04/27/calling-dr-oz-defend-alt-med-on-skeptics-guide/)

[segnosaur]

Because the alternative (organic food) is roughly 8 times more likely to give you E-coli poisoning.

I eat raw milk cheese too.

Never had any kind of poisoning. It must be just that I'm naturally healthy, in spite of all the organic food I eat.

What you are doing is giving an anecdote. Sadly, such anecdotes cannot be considered evidence.

We've probably also known people who've smoked like a chimney, yet lived to be quite elderly. But that doesn't mean smoking is safe.

[carepov]

Here's another link to what I was saying, but the TV show THE VIEW had on a specialist in food and he said the last 45 years wheat has gotten more gluten than ever before and the Dr. Oz show has done shows on this too. http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/hormones/

Thanks for the link, but frankly it is one-sided and full of fear-mongering lies. It makes me wonder what its motives are.

For example, the site claims that hormone treatment of dairy cows is dangerous, as if it were a well-established fact without balancing with opposing viewpoints, such as:

"After careful review, the Food and Drug Administration, World Health Organization, American Medical Association, American Dietetics Association, and the National Institute of Health have independently confirmed that dairy products and meat from BST treated cows is safe for human consumption."

https://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/factsheet/FN-250_6.pdf

The Doctor on the View was: http://www.morrisonhealth.com/. His motives are clear. I am sceptical on the proclaimed dangers of wheat/gluten:

"Urban lore suggests that more people are developing gluten sensitivity because today's wheat has higher gluten content than in decades past. But according to data from the Canadian Grain Commission, there was no upward trend in the protein content of Western Canadian wheat from 1927 to 2009. In fact, the amount of protein was higher in 1940 than it is today, and the 83-year mean was 13.6 per cent."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/the-gluten-debate-cutting-the-wheat-from-the-chaff/article572490/

Anyways, there are surely valid health concerns regarding our diet but there are plenty of groups spreading mis-information. I have decided save my trust for sources that are objective and scientific. For now, I have no concerns with farmed fish, GMOs, gluten, "factory" meat, dairy, "non-organic" produce, or even BPA in plastic bottles. I see no evidence of these things harming me. I will focus more on avoiding the proven dangers: smoking, lack of exercise, stress, lack of sleep, excessive alcohol, drugs, excessive fat/cholesterol, excessive salt, and excessive sugar. IMO, we spend too much time worrying about the possibly minuscule risks and not enough on the proven significant risks.

[wyly]

Anyways, there are surely valid health concerns regarding our diet but there are plenty of groups spreading mis-information. I have decided save my trust for sources that are objective and scientific. For now, I have no concerns with farmed fish, GMOs, gluten, "factory" meat, dairy, "non-organic" produce, or even BPA in plastic bottles. I see no evidence of these things harming me. I will focus more on avoiding the proven dangers: smoking, lack of exercise, stress, lack of sleep, excessive alcohol, drugs, excessive fat/cholesterol, excessive salt, and excessive sugar. IMO, we spend too much time worrying about the possibly minuscule risks and not enough on the proven significant risks.

i don't think anyone is deliberately spreading misinformation they have good intentions...

you may not have any concerns with things you see no evidence that are hurting you but that was the case with smoking not long ago too...my father didn't see evidence smoking was harming him the MD's were exaggerating(misinformation) according to him...he did finally believe the information but too late, the damage smoking did to him disabled him and eventually caused his death...