Bonam Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) Really? You think women fantasize about disrespecting and degrading men in similar ratios as the other way around? That or being disrespected or degraded (dominated) by men. A common female fantasy, hard as it may be to believe. Edited October 1, 2012 by Bonam Quote
BC_chick Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 That or being disrespected or degraded (dominated) by men. A common female fantasy, hard as it may be to believe. Well, Michael wasn't asking what the women on this board think about other women's sexual fantasies now, was he? Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Bonam Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 Well, Michael wasn't asking what the women on this board think about other women's sexual fantasies now, was he? My point was simply that people fantasize about what they can't have. I'm sure when most women were repressed housewives, men probably fantasized about powerful, intelligent women that could be their equals. Now that so many women are in fact powerful and successful, many men fantasize about the opposite, submissive women that they can control. And now that most men treat women with respect, many women fantasize about just the opposite. Just human nature. Anyway, it's a bit tangential. Your statement was that it would be nice if men fantasized about mutual respect and esteem with women. The fact that they don't is actually a good thing, it means that mutual respect and esteem is what they are actually experiencing in their relationships, so there's no need to fantasize about it. Quote
Mr.Canada Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 Women are using sex as a weapon more and more these days. Look at any office, shopping mall or really anywhere. There will be tons of women with lower cut tops and those necklaces that go into a single piece and go between the breasts into the cleavage. These are intentionally drawing eyes towards their breasts and the women know it so I don't buy that they don't want to be noticed. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Michael Hardner Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 But in a perfect world, and completely within the context of this question, if I were the big "Creator" of this earth, men's fantasies about women would be based on mutual respect and esteem. How do you know they're NOT imagining such things ? Granted, they're probably just imagining a few minutes of any potential story with the female being scoped, but the beginning and end of that story could be quite respectful and loving. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
MiddleClassCentrist Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) My opinion of that particular situation is that it's a fictional video. Nope. I had an interview with a female manager who was exposing a bit too much cleavage. My eyes dropped, completely subconsciously for fraction of a second, and the interview changed from that point on. I wasn't leering, I didn't even mean to look down. It just happened. I didn't get the job by the way. Edited October 1, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Guest Manny Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 That right there, I believe, is referred to as projection. That right there is a father of two teenage girls, who knows them and all their friends well enough to have figured out what the problem is. Quote
Guest Manny Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 That or being disrespected or degraded (dominated) by men. A common female fantasy, hard as it may be to believe. Now Bonam be nice, you're really hittin 'below the belt'. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 Well when I talk to people I don't tend to keep my eyes constantly locked on to theirs. I glance around, occasionally making eye contact but also occasionally looking elsewhere. This is in fact normal behaviour. Problem is if she's really hot looking, it's hard to keep ones eyes purposely away from those areas. Everywhere else is allowed. There's places we cannot look. I have faith in you. You can resist the urge to stare lustfully at her tits. I assure you. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 Actually women need to respect themselves a bit more. That's where the real problem is. The entire argument of this thread is that men can't control their urges and here we have the prescription: women need to respect themselves more. How about men have a little self-respect and respect for others by not succumbing to their base instincts? "Sorry, officer. I just couldn't resist clubbing her over the head and dragging her by her hair to my cave. It's only natural." Quote
Bonam Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 "Sorry, officer. I just couldn't resist clubbing her over the head and dragging her by her hair to my cave. It's only natural." Quote
Argus Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Posted October 1, 2012 The entire argument of this thread is that men can't control their urges and here we have the prescription: women need to respect themselves more. No, in fact that isn't the argument of the thread at all. That is the argument made between certain individuals who simply are incapable of discussion on more subtle shades of gray. They immediately go to the extremes because they are unable to make a point otherwise, and so they yank the whole discussion off to the edges of stupidity. This has never been about men shoving their hands down women's tops, or tearing their clothes off in the hallways. Let me try and make the point again. There is an old guy who brings his granddaughter to school every day. He's in his early sixties. All the parents who do this kind of know each other. Most of them are women, and obviously, most are younger. Because he's white haired and 'old' a lot of the young mothers will hug him in a friendly fashion as a greeting. They seem to think because he's older he is sexless. Now my friend, who is a man, talks to him, and pointed out to his wife that he certainly appreciates those young female bodies pressed against him. Her reaction? He's a pervert. She's now very squeamish around him. Why? Because he's old and shouldn't be looking at or appreciating those young women. To varying extents, this is also felt of middle aged men; that they shouldn't be appreciating, talking about, lusting after, women half their age. A lot of people seem to feel that's sick, weird perverted or such. And while the origin of our harassment rules at larger workplaces was rude, ignorant men who couldn't keep their hands to themselves, or keep a civil tongue in their heads, things have grown far broader and less precise since. It is almost like the mere appreciation of a female is to be stamped out ruthlessly, however polite or subtle it might be. There is a certain shrill element to this which can't seem to find a balance in the middle between sexual assault and ordinary male-female interaction. And so they absolve females of any and all responsibility in attracting that male response. To listen to them, a woman could have have her breasts hanging sticking out over the top of her blouse every day and any man who so much as glances at them should be fired and arrested. But this is not about sexual assault, it's about how men and women interact on a daily basis, and the impossibility of completely ignoring the sexual element or attraction in that interaction. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Posted October 1, 2012 That or being disrespected or degraded (dominated) by men. A common female fantasy, hard as it may be to believe. Talk about shades of gray... fifty of them! Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Posted October 1, 2012 See. This is what I'm talking about. How would anyone know the guy has "noticed" an attractive woman? If he merely "noticed" her, then she would likely be oblivious to it. If he's being condemned for it, then it certainly went beyond "noticing" and into the realm of making her feel uncomfortable or worse. And once again you're assuming that she would not welcome such notice. Do you KNOW any women? Just the other day, a happily married, thirtysomething mother of two who works for the government was giddily telling me how some guy was complimenting her at work and telling her how great she looks lately. She's been trying to lose weight, with some success, and was enormously happy. Not all the women I know appreciate being appreciated, but most do, as long as the guy is polite about it. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Posted October 1, 2012 My opinion of that particular situation is that it's a fictional video. Yes, but it's only an exaggeration of what happens. I know I've had my eyes inadvertently drawn down to that sort of thing on occasion, just for a quick second, and been caught at it. No one freaked out on me like in the video, but there was some jokes, and sometimes some effort at not bending forward to give me such a nice view. I remember a guy telling me how he dreaded meetings with his director. They'd sit around a small round table, with his admin assistant there to take notes. The admin assistant was the one I mentioned earlier, the buxom girl who showed cleavage. He had nothing AGAINST cleavage, of course, but was afraid of his eyes being drawn to it and having either her or the director notice. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) I felt compelled to suggest to the ladies standing beside me that "maybe they're just his grand-daughters" but "no" they replied, "he's just a lucky bastard". I was once thanked by the security guards for hiring a tall, attractive blonde clerk. Their jobs were very boring, but they got to watch her going back and forth a lot between the two towers of the building. I arranged for a friend of one of our people to be hired too, and she was another tall, attractive blonde. Whenever they walked down the hall together the reaction was much as in your story, and they weren't even in bikinis. Edited October 1, 2012 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
BC_chick Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 How do you know they're NOT imagining such things ? Granted, they're probably just imagining a few minutes of any potential story with the female being scoped, but the beginning and end of that story could be quite respectful and loving. As I said, in *my* perfect world, and within the context of your question, there wouldn't be any disprespect. I thought it a rhetorical question inquisitive of my subjective opinion about men's fantasies of women. Not you, but it seems a lot of people want to 'debate' me on what is essentially my fantasy. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Argus Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Posted October 1, 2012 Really? You think women fantasize about disrespecting and degrading men in similar ratios as the other way around? Men fantasize about having control, sexually, in large measure because they largely lack that control in this society. Women are the ones in control of sex. Man pant after it, but it's women who decide whether they get it, and when, or what they're willing to allow.* Women tend to fantasize about sex in the context of unrestrained love, trust and adoration. That is, the sex is great, the man is model-perfect, but he's also utterly devoted to them, never judges them, never thinks ill of them -- kind of like a big old dog. Again, this is not something that you can usually get. Men are judgmental (as are women) and yes, that skirt does make your ass look fat, and no, that hairstyle looks hideous. Sorry about that. *Yes, it's a generalization, and I'm not saying women don't want or pursue sex on occasion. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest American Woman Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) Mutual respect and esteem are what a lot of real relationships are based on. People fantasize about what they don't/can't have. That's true of women as well. Why do you think books like Fifty Shades are so popular? "Fifty Shades" is about mutual respect and esteem - and it's about a man loving and getting turned on by only one woman. He doesn't stare at, ogle, or even glance at another woman's breasts. So yeah, according to the responses in this thread, it is based on what women can't, or seldom can, have. Edited October 1, 2012 by American Woman Quote
Guest American Woman Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 You know, it strikes me that we have an opportunity to use the forum's featured anonymity to ask questions we couldn't ask in public. For example, would the ladies of MLW mind if they were secretly being 'noticed' at work ... as long as it wasn't noticed that they were noticed ? If someone isn't noticing that are being 'noticed,' so they aren't even aware of it, I don't know how anyone could "mind" it. How can one mind something that they aren't aware of? Otherwise, should we all be cleansing our minds of all inappropriate thoughts or can we still be humans ? Maybe this question isn't even appropriate, I don't know. In any case, I'm wondering how you feel about this... would you rather just have men put their thoughts away, or merely hide them ? I think there are men who do put their thoughts away, but if they don't/can't, of course it would be much better if they hid them. I'm sure most women would feel this way. It's not conducive to a work atmosphere to feel as if the male co-workers are all checking out all of the women's breasts. I can't help but wonder, reading through this thread and other comments that are made by men about women's breasts, how it would affect men, and their self esteem, if their clothes (and I'm not talking Speedo here) outlined/accentuated the size of their package, and they knew women were noticing it and talking about it and judging them and their appeal by it. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 Wow, intersting question. I never thought of men putting their thoughts away as an option in order to speculate what my answer would be. K, no I don't mind the thoughts as long as they don't infringe on my life. But in a perfect world, and completely within the context of this question, if I were the big "Creator" of this earth, men's fantasies about women would be based on mutual respect and esteem. Unfortunately, I don't think there is enough of that. Just answering honestly. My thoughts exactly. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) deleted - double post Edited October 1, 2012 by American Woman Quote
Guest American Woman Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 That or being disrespected or degraded (dominated) by men. A common female fantasy, hard as it may be to believe. I'm not sure how common that actually is, in and of itself. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 Well, you said (in the post I quoted) that women choose to be single, and are single because they like it. I'm saying that isn't necessarily the case. The post you quoted was a response to Mr. Canada, who was saying that the reason there are so many single women in their 30's is because they are all uptight, thinking men are out to harm them. This is why there are so many single women in their 30's. Too bloody uptight. You girls need to relax and realize that not every man isn't out to do you harm. I was acknowledging that yes, there are more single women in their 30's these days, because they are choosing it, for the reasons I stated. Of course there was never a time when every woman in her 30's was married, I was responding to the reality that there are more single women in their 30's in this day and age - that more women are waiting longer to get married and have a family - and pointing out that it isn't because they are too bloody uptight etc. Having said that, I have to wonder why you didn't feel the same need to respond to Mr. Canada's post, saying that what he claimed "isn't necessarily the case." Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 1, 2012 Report Posted October 1, 2012 If someone isn't noticing that are being 'noticed,' so they aren't even aware of it, I don't know how anyone could "mind" it. How can one mind something that they aren't aware of? Maybe they don't even like being thought of that way. I think there are men who do put their thoughts away, but if they don't/can't, of course it would be much better if they hid them. I'm sure most women would feel this way. Nobody wants to be thought of in terms of their physical bits... but that's actually less threatening than the idea that you enjoy someone's company so much that you want to spend time with them. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.