Argus Posted September 30, 2012 Author Report Posted September 30, 2012 They're oppressing an atmosphere that makes some women feel threatened. So you're against oppressing threatening situations for women is what you're saying. Why should they be subjected to that in the workplace or anywhere for that matter? I realize that is the idea. My point is that it's been carried to the point where it's basically judging all normal male reaction to women they find attractive as immoral, perverted or criminal. I think the makers of these sorts of cultural laws come from the same place you do, Cyber, which is that any time a man looks at a woman with the slightest sexual interest there ought to be a cop there to lock him up and a medical team to lead the poor girl off to a lifetime of psychiatric treatment for her terrible trauma. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 30, 2012 Author Report Posted September 30, 2012 Needless to say, what may seem undesirable and offensive from one admirer may seem desirable and attractive from another. A woman may interpret one man's actions as acceptable, and another man may get a harassment lawsuit for the same ones. Personally, I believe that laws and rules should be based on things that are more concrete, more objective. Subjectivity is fine when it comes to how people form opinions, and who one wants to have a relationship with, but when it comes to legal consequences, I don't think such definitions are at all appropriate. I tend to agree with you, Bonam. I was once involved in a workplace sexual harassment investigation after a temporary worker filed a complaint. The gist of her complaint was that the workplace was a hostile environment because of how the men and women in it behaved towards each other. I.e, they were making jokes to each other she considered to be inappropriate, and she observed physical conduct like one man with his hand on a woman's shoulder as he bent over her chair to examine her computer monitor. She also didn't like the conversation and jokes in the lunchroom, especially the ones coming from the women (this workplace was 90% female with a female manager). There was no suggestion anyone had targeted her, was trying to pressure her into anything, was insulting her or leering at her or whatnot. Management booted it around back and forth, then it went up very high in the organization where they hired a special outside investigator. He took a year at great cost to determine there not only wasn't any harassment but that most of her complaints didn't even fall under the agency definition of harassment. Needless to say she no longer works for the agency. It was an absolute mess because of cowardly management who didn't even understand their own rules but were hyper sensitive to any charge of sexual harassment. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 30, 2012 Author Report Posted September 30, 2012 Oh, this is hilarious. The reason there are so many single women in their 30's is that they choose to be single - because they have more options available to them than women have had in the past. Women are marrying later, having kids later (or choosing single parenthood if they don't want to automatically marry if they become pregnant), building careers, traveling - ie: living their own life before they choose to settle down and live the married/parenthood life. In other words, they are single because they like it. What planet are you writing in from? I know a lot of young women and not one is happy to be without a husband/spouse/boyfriend. There are some men who live to be players, but most don't. I've never met a woman who wanted to be a player for very long, and especially once they're in their thirties and heading up towards the big 4-0. I'm sure there are a few, but by far the vast majority of women -- like most men -- want to be with someone. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest American Woman Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 Do you honestly think there's anyone here who likes what you have to say? Honestly, are you 12? There are many here who "like" what I have to say (why do I feel 12 myself, just typing that?) - so again, that you're not one of them confirms that I'm doing something right. What planet are you writing in from? I know a lot of young women and not one is happy to be without a husband/spouse/boyfriend. Newsflash. A woman can be single and have a boyfriend - but you'll have to forgive me for not taking your life experiences as meaningful evidence of ... well, anything. Quote
Bonam Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 A woman can be single and have a boyfriend Care to explain? If I have a girlfriend, I'm not single. If I'm single, I don't have a girlfriend. The converse is applicable to women. Or have you made up new definitions for single and boyfriend? Quote
Guest American Woman Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 Care to explain? If I have a girlfriend, I'm not single. If I'm single, I don't have a girlfriend. The converse is applicable to women. Or have you made up new definitions for single and boyfriend? If you're not married, you most definitely are "single." And no, I didn't make that up. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 Newsflash. A woman can be single and have a boyfriend - but you'll have to forgive me for not taking your life experiences as meaningful evidence of ... well, anything. There's also more to life than having a guy in your life - even if you're not a Lesbian. ( I take it these people don't know any Lesbians, or they somehow don't count them as women . ) Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Guest American Woman Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) There's also more to life than having a guy in your life - even if you're not a Lesbian. ( I take it these people don't know any Lesbians, or they somehow don't count them as women . ) Most definitely. Perhaps not in everyone's crowd, but I see women (and men) in their thirties doing amazing things with their lives, fulfilling dreams before they settle down. Marrying or even having a BF/GF is not the main desire/goal of every 30-something at that stage of their lives. To suggest that any 30-something woman who is single is single because there's something wrong with her is profoundly ignorant. Edited September 30, 2012 by American Woman Quote
The_Squid Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 Really? A woman must dress so her breasts don't attract men's attention at all, or it's "unprofessional?" Would a tent suffice in your mind? He sounds pro-burka, no? Cover your women up or I shall ogle them excessively! Quote
Bonam Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 If you're not married, you most definitely are "single." Quote
msj Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 Care to explain? If I have a girlfriend, I'm not single. If I'm single, I don't have a girlfriend. The converse is applicable to women. Or have you made up new definitions for single and boyfriend? Is she your GF or is she a f-buddy? Of course, the same can be asked for those who claim to be married or common-law. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Guest Manny Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 He sounds pro-burka, no? Cover your women up or I shall ogle them excessively! It's an interesting observation that while one culture forces its women to completely cover themselves, another allows women to wear almost anything they want, but then culturally condemns men for looking. Seems that the same problem exists in each culture, but the solution is quite different. Quote
The_Squid Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 It's an interesting observation that while one culture forces its women to completely cover themselves, another allows women to wear almost anything they want, but then culturally condemns men for looking. Seems that the same problem exists in each culture, but the solution is quite different. Actually, the solution to both is that men should correct their behaviour. In oppressive religious countries men need to relax their authoritarian control and here men need to stop being pigs if a woman dresses in a manner that shows a bit of cleavage. Act like a proffessional in your job.... Mostly just grow the fuck up. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 Actually, the solution to both is that men should correct their behaviour. In oppressive religious countries men need to relax their authoritarian control and here men need to stop being pigs if a woman dresses in a manner that shows a bit of cleavage. Act like a proffessional in your job.... Mostly just grow the fuck up. That says it all. Quote
Guest Manny Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 Actually, the solution to both is that men should correct their behaviour. In oppressive religious countries men need to relax their authoritarian control and here men need to stop being pigs if a woman dresses in a manner that shows a bit of cleavage. Act like a proffessional in your job.... Mostly just grow the fuck up. It's pigs, all around but the notion that men should grow up is being idealistic. Men are what they are... and women are what they are too. Ask women to grow up as well, because I know a lot of them who are really "selling the goods". But don't get me wrong, not critical of it, that's the way the world goes around. The birds and the bees, you know? Wanting to be attractive is just as strong an impulse as wanting to look at what's attractive. This whole debate dwells in the grey region. We all know where the extremes are, we're arguing where the fine line is in-between. There's no empirical right answer. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 Merriam-Webster Dictionary sin·gle adjective \ˈsiŋ-gəl\ Definition of SINGLE 1 a : not married (And for the record, no, I didn't "make up" the definition of "single" for Merriam-Webster. ) Quote
BC_chick Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 A complaint to Human Resources doesn't necessarily result in a charge of harassment; in fact, I'd be willing to bet that it seldom does. Once a guy is warned, it's within his power to stop the behavior. If he doesn't, and he eventually loses his job, he has no one to blame but himself. (And I'm not talking an accidental glance that lasts less than a second - who would take that seriously??) Agreed. I remember a guy at my old job said I'm a flirt because I smile while I talk. I was floored, but at the same time I realised how people can easily misinterpret another person's body-language. Sexual harrassment could therefore begin innocently enough with someone misinterpreting the other person's uncomfortable laughter as playfulness. Fair enough, but that's why a warning precedes taking action. As you mention and I agree, at that point they have nobody to blame but themself. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Bonam Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 This whole debate dwells in the grey region. We all know where the extremes are, we're arguing where the fine line is in-between. A good way of putting it. Quote
Argus Posted September 30, 2012 Author Report Posted September 30, 2012 Honestly, are you 12? There are many here who "like" what I have to say Sure there are. If there were ever a vote to vote someone off the island you'd place high on the list. You're obsessive compulsive and immune to all logic, argument or fact. Newsflash. A woman can be single and have a boyfriend - but you'll have to forgive me for not taking your life experiences as meaningful evidence of ... well, anything. News flash. If a woman is hooked up with someone she's not single. What era are you calling in from anyway, grandma? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 30, 2012 Author Report Posted September 30, 2012 There's also more to life than having a guy in your life - even if you're not a Lesbian. ( I take it these people don't know any Lesbians, or they somehow don't count them as women . ) AW is generally oblivious to any kind of context, but you know better. MC said "single" but he clearly meant "alone", as in all alone in their thirties due to this hypersensitivity. Even while I don't agree with him it's crystal clear what he meant. Please don't follow AW down another of her long, dreary roads to arguing endlessly about nothing remotely related to the topic under discussion. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 30, 2012 Author Report Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) Actually, the solution to both is that men should correct their behaviour. In oppressive religious countries men need to relax their authoritarian control and here men need to stop being pigs if a woman dresses in a manner that shows a bit of cleavage. Act like a proffessional in your job.... Mostly just grow the fuck up. Are you for real? Nobody is talking about guys shoving their faces into a woman's cleavage. They're talking about noticing an attractive woman, and being condemned for it. Sometimes I wonder about the social skills of some of you people... Edited September 30, 2012 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 30, 2012 Author Report Posted September 30, 2012 Merriam-Webster Dictionary sin·gle adjective \ˈsiŋ-gəl\ Definition of SINGLE 1 a : not married (And for the record, no, I didn't "make up" the definition of "single" for Merriam-Webster. ) So even if I'm living with a woman I'm single, eh? News to her, I bet. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 30, 2012 Author Report Posted September 30, 2012 Agreed. I remember a guy at my old job said I'm a flirt because I smile while I talk. I was floored, but at the same time I realised how people can easily misinterpret another person's body-language. People can mistake things, especially if they have poor social skills. I once worked with a woman who was always hugging people, men and women. She was cute, too. But she didn't mean anything by it, and most of us realized that pretty easily. But every now and then some guy would get the wrong idea. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dre Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 I smile while I talk Slut. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Guest American Woman Posted September 30, 2012 Report Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) Sure there are. If there were ever a vote to vote someone off the island you'd place high on the list. You're obsessive compulsive and immune to all logic, argument or fact. Translation: I don't agree with your every word. Since you obviously have problems discussing your views with anyone smarter than a fifth grader, I understand your frustration. News flash. If a woman is hooked up with someone she's not single. What era are you calling in from anyway, grandma? The beyond puberty era, so that likely explains your confusion. Edited September 30, 2012 by American Woman Quote
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