BC Ferries

[caesar]

VANCOUVER – Throughout an interview with a local television reporter Friday, David Hahn, president of BC Ferries denounced the BC shipbuilding industry and its practices and defended his prerogative to award a lucrative contract to an overseas company. In a contradictory statement during the same interview, Hahn said that while British Columbia shipbuilders “can and should” build the vessels here, he believes local industry is using politics to try to “slip in to the back door” of BC Ferries' process and he is not prepared to give way. “It's closed,” he says of the bid process.

What an idiot. Campbell allowed this to become a private company owned by the government to avoid disclosing information and accounting for its actions.

[ceemes]

VANCOUVER – Throughout an interview with a local television reporter Friday, David Hahn, president of BC Ferries denounced the BC shipbuilding industry and its practices and defended his prerogative to award a lucrative contract to an overseas company. In a contradictory statement during the same interview, Hahn said that while British Columbia shipbuilders “can and should” build the vessels here, he believes local industry is using politics to try to “slip in to the back door” of BC Ferries' process and he is not prepared to give way. “It's closed,” he says of the bid process.

What an idiot. Campbell allowed this to become a private company owned by the government to avoid disclosing information and accounting for its actions.

Sadly, it looks as if Campbell & Co are out to sell off as much of BC as possible before they get the boot.

Half a Billion Dollars are to be taken out of the BC economy and transferred into the German economy.....you can bet the Germans or whoever in Europe wins that contract will be pissing themselfs with laughter.......all the way to the bank.

[August1991]

Half a Billion Dollars are to be taken out of the BC economy and transferred into the German economy

When you go shopping, do you say $100 have been taken out of your household economy and transferred into the local shopping mall economy? IOW, why not keep that money in the family and grow your own food and make your own clothes?

BTW, would it make any difference if the ship builder was in Quebec rather than Germany? How about Manitoba? Why do you arbitrarily draw a line at the BC border?

[ceemes]

Half a Billion Dollars are to be taken out of the BC economy and transferred into the German economy

When you go shopping, do you say $100 have been taken out of your household economy and transferred into the local shopping mall economy? IOW, why not keep that money in the family and grow your own food and make your own clothes?

BTW, would it make any difference if the ship builder was in Quebec rather than Germany? How about Manitoba? Why do you arbitrarily draw a line at the BC border?

Lets see, BC has its own ship building industry and has built the current BC Ferry fleet in the past, including the two Spirit Class boats.

Where is the sense of sending BC taxpayers money out of the Province to build the ferrys BC needs when we can build them ourselves? Why export the economic benefits overseas or even out of Province when they can be sunk back into the local economy? Why should the BC taxpayer contribute to a European nation's tax base?

Would it not make more sense to keep the money and jobs in BC instead of sending them overseas?

[willy]

ceemes,

When you go to a doctor, do you care where he finished in his class? How about your home builder?

Are people and businesses interchangeable?

IMO, the European companies have demonstrated a superior product and a greater experience level with building large ferries.

BC will likely win many contracts for the smaller boats. Let me rephrase that The Washington Group will win many contracts. If Kyle Washington continues to make BC Ferries look bad, they may not.

[ceemes]

ceemes,

When you go to a doctor, do you care where he finished in his class? How about your home builder?

Are people and businesses interchangeable?

IMO, the European companies have demonstrated a superior product and a greater experience level with building large ferries.

BC will likely win many contracts for the smaller boats. Let me rephrase that The Washington Group will win many contracts. If Kyle Washington continues to make BC Ferries look bad, they may not.

The odds are my local GP will have been trained and educated at UBC and even so.......when I visit him or shop here, a vast chunk of the money I will have spent will stay in the local economy in the form of wages, taxes and other local sundry expenses. That money in turn will be reinvested or spent again in the local economy.

Tossing half a billion dollars out of your economy is a fools game.

And BC shipyards have been turning out world class ferries that are ideally suited for our waterways for decades. (Not counting the FastCats which were never intended for BC waterways, but rather for the export market).

Given the current economic climate in BC, does it make sense for the government to take that money out of province instead of injecting back into our home economy?

The lost income and sales tax revenues alone are staggering, especially when you consider the multiplier effect of money.

Campbell and Co are happy to throw away are few hundred million for a one off show in 2010, where is the sense in that? (Dont get me wrong, I favour the Winter Games coming here)

Do we need to replace our aging ferry fleet? Yes.

Can the BC shipbuilding industry and workers design and build the ferries we need? Yes

Should the majority of the economic benefits that will come from building new ferries and paid for by the BC taxpayer stay in BC? Yes

Should the BC taxpayers hard earned cash by sent overseas to suppliment a foreign nations economy? No.

[August1991]

I cannot speak about Winter Games, Campbell's competence (or sobriety) or the ability of BC shipyards to build boats. But I can consider the following two questions:

Should the majority of the economic benefits that will come from building new ferries and paid for by the BC taxpayer stay in BC? Yes

Should the BC taxpayers hard earned cash by sent overseas to suppliment a foreign nations economy? No.

There are NO economic benefits from building a house. (Building a house requires a lot of hard work.) There ARE economic benefits from living in a house.

IOW, there are two ways to get ferries: you either make them yourself or, you make something else and trade to get the ferries. It appears the BC government has chosen Option B. (Makes sense to me. I choose Option B for almost everything I consume.)

Who cares where "hard earned cash" is sent? Does your household stop because you take money from home and spend it at Wal-Mart?

The lost income and sales tax revenues alone are staggering, especially when you consider the multiplier effect of money.

Why stop at ferries? Why not force people to buy BC oranges too! With the multiplier effect, think how many jobs could be created (and taxes paid) if BC grew oranges in greenhouses!

[caesar]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with our ship building industry. To not allow them to bid on the contract is sheer stupidity. BC will be paying the federal government an extra 150 million import taxes; the ferries will have to be shipped to Canada, There is NO evidence that they will deliver a superior product

o cares where "hard earned cash" is sent? Does your household stop because you take money from home and spend it at Wal-Mart?

I care and so do many taxpayers. These jobs would have return much of the money earned building these ship back into our tax system?

I do not buy at Walmart.

The oranges comment is ridiculous.

[August1991]

I do not buy at Walmart.

So what. Others do buy at Wal-Mart, but that's hardly my point.

The oranges comment is ridiculous.

Is it? Apparently, BC has 'greenhouses' to produce boats. That is, you want BC to produce boats. Should it? Well, if the oranges are good and better, why not?

I care and so do many taxpayers. These jobs would have return much of the money earned building these ship back into our tax system?

Caesar, many people used to manufacture/repair typewriters, Now they don't because of computers. Many people used to manufacture/repair public phone booths but now they don't because of cellular phones.

Because of these innovations, did society lose jobs? Did governments lose tax revenues? Are the poor poorer? Are the rich richer?

-----

Caesar, I admire your desire to protect and assist ordinary people. In the future, please find a more knowledgeable way to present your beliefs.

[willy]

To not allow them to bid on the contract is sheer stupidity.

They did bid. 9 companies put bids forward and The Washington Group was one of them. An industry does not put a bid forward a company does.

The Washington Group did not make the short list. Two bodies were in place just to evaluate the fairness of the bidding process. As part of the governance structure of BC Ferries they have a great deal of process to awarding major contracts and all the processes were followed.

The decision will be made and it is a done deal.

If we are to build more ships here that company needs to get more competitive.

By the way the spirit class ferries come in over budget and late.

[ceemes]

There are NO economic benefits from building a house. (Building a house requires a lot of hard work.) There ARE economic benefits from living in a house.

You got to be joking......NO economic benefits from building a house? Are you sane or sober?

There are huge economic benefits from building houses, hell it is one of the key economic indicators of our economy.

When a contractor builds a house, he has to pay wages to his employees and sub-contractors, buy materials.....and then make his profit......taxes are collected on all these and get sunk back into the economy.....when most people buy a house, they need to get a mortgage and pay interest on that loan, which in turn get reinvested back into the economy.....god, the economic benefits of house building are flippin' huge.

IOW, there are two ways to get ferries: you either make them yourself or, you make something else and trade to get the ferries.  It appears the BC government has chosen Option B.  (Makes sense to me.  I choose Option B for almost everything I consume.)

And what are they trading for these new boats?.......hard earned BC tax payers money and jobs.

Who cares where "hard earned cash" is sent?  Does your household stop because you take money from home and spend it at Wal-Mart?

This makes no sense. A fair chunk of any monies I spend at Wal-Mart (which I don't, don't get me start on Wal-Mart) stays within the local economy. Wal-Mart has to place a shop within my area in order to service my needs. It has to staff those stores, buy or lease land to build said store, pay various taxes to my local authorities......a fair percentage of any money I may spend at my local Wal-Mart stays within my local economy.

Why stop at ferries?  Why not force people to buy BC oranges too! With the multiplier effect, think how many jobs could be created (and taxes paid) if BC grew oranges in greenhouses!

This makes even less sense then your Wal-Mart statement. Last time I check, there are no greenhouses in BC that grow oranges, however BC does have an established, talented and local shipbuilding industry. And we have a shaky economy right now, so I do not see the sense of transferring 1/2 a billion of BC'ers taxpayers money overseas when we could use that money spent here to create jobs and economic activity.

[caesar]

Caesar, I admire your desire to protect and assist ordinary people. In the future, please find a more knowledgeable way to present your beliefs.

I am not alone in this. Not only BC jobs; money returned to the BC economy. The cost is more that the 500 million; it will mean we must give the federal government and extra 150 million import tax. How much will it cost to transport these ships from Europe.

Since our local shipyards were not allowed to even bid on these ships; how do we even make a comparison of costs.

The Ferry system was converted to a private company; still owned and paid for by the BC public; only now we cannot make this business accountable to the public??

I think this is a deliberate scheme of the GC government to destroy union jobs in BC.

[willy]

A fair chunk of any monies I spend at Wal-Mart (which I don't, don't get me start on Wal-Mart) stays within the local economy. Wal-Mart has to place a shop within my area in order to service my needs. It has to staff those stores, buy or lease land to build said store, pay various taxes to my local authorities......a fair percentage of any money I may spend at my local Wal-Mart stays within my local economy.

Will the new ferries not run in BC? They will provide jobs for the workers at BC ferries. If they are here faster and cheaper, they will put BC ferries in a better financial position. Should the workers at BC ferries not benefit from a well managed company? They will also have the money and time to focus on new smaller boats for the other runs. Will the efficiency not also allow them to create more economic activity? This is money for three big capital assets. This is not a waste.

[Big Blue Machine]

Usually when things are privitzed, they cost more.

[ceemes]

A fair chunk of any monies I spend at Wal-Mart (which I don't, don't get me start on Wal-Mart) stays within the local economy. Wal-Mart has to place a shop within my area in order to service my needs. It has to staff those stores, buy or lease land to build said store, pay various taxes to my local authorities......a fair percentage of any money I may spend at my local Wal-Mart stays within my local economy.

Will the new ferries not run in BC? They will provide jobs for the workers at BC ferries. If they are here faster and cheaper, they will put BC ferries in a better financial position. Should the workers at BC ferries not benefit from a well managed company? They will also have the money and time to focus on new smaller boats for the other runs. Will the efficiency not also allow them to create more economic activity? This is money for three big capital assets. This is not a waste.

Willy,

Those job already exist. When the new boats are commissioned and put into service, the old boats will be retired and pulled out of service. The crews of the old boats will simply transfer over to the new ones. Indeed, it is doubtful that the new boats will create any new jobs within the BC Ferry Corp at all, and in fact they may even require less crew to operate.

Building the big boats in BC as well as the small ones would have major positive impacts right across the board for the BC economy. Not only would the shipbuilding industry benefit, but so would the supporting industries such as the transportation industry. Local suppliers of building materials would also benefit. And the wages earned for the construction of those boats would be spent in the local economy, boosting the profit margins and viability of numerous other local companies.

By sending the contracts offshore, the BC Government is cutting its nose off to spite its face. It is basically shrinking its own tax base, which is foolish.

Then there are the potential side benefits, odds are new construction systems will have to be developed or implimented giving our people the new skills they will need to be competitive in the future. The shipbuilders will most likely have to invest in new infrastructer and equipment that would allow them to compete for other contracts.

Why is the Campbell government so bent on handicapping both BC workers and companies?

[ceemes]

If we are to build more ships here that company needs to get more competitive.

In order for the company to become more competitive, it needs to become more efficient, to become more efficient it needs to moderize its capital assets and give its workforce the new skills and training to use these new assets, and in order to do that, the company needs an economic incentive.....and winning a half a billion dollar contract to build the new BC Ferry fleet would be one hell of an incentive.

By the way the spirit class ferries come in over budget and late.

Very few, if any projects on the scale of the Spirit Class ferries even come in on budget or on time, especially when you are talking about new designs and prototypes.

However, the Government can protect itself and the taxpayer from these somewhat by having penalty clauses inbedded into the contact against cost overruns and delays.

After all, companies such as Wal-Mart have draconian penalty clause inbedded in every contract they sign with a supplier. Be late with a delivery, short an item, over an item and the supplier gets dinged big time......

[August1991]

You got to be joking......NO economic benefits from building a house? Are you sane or sober?

There are huge economic benefits from building houses, hell it is one of the key economic indicators of our economy.

There are NO economic benefits from building houses. If we could build houses in 5 seconds using crazy glue, the world would be a better place.

Please understand clearly the word "cost" and the word "benefit". Building houses is a negative, a cost to society. Having houses, living in them is a plus, a benefit to society.

How does this pertain to BC ferries? Building boats is a negative, a cost to society. Having boats is a plus, a benefit. The way for a society to be rich is to ensure that benefits are greater than costs.

By all accounts, building the boats in BC would incur greater costs than benefits. BC would lose. IOW, it apparently costs less to have the boats built abroad.

----

ceemus, it is your kind of logic that leads people to believe that if the government hires people to dig holes in the ground and then fill the holes up, this will lead to economic growth.

It is the same logic that uses "job creation" as an economic measure. Jobs are a cost to society; what a person produces while working is the benefit.

Oranges? According to your logic, growing oranges in BC greenhouses would be good for the BC economy. (Think of all the infrastructure that would be required! The multipliers and spin-offs would be enormous! The R+D and investments required would all be good. And this would keep lots of money in the BC economy.)

IOW, your arguments in favour of a BC ship building industry could just as easily be used to justify a BC orange growing industry. (I think you'd agree with me that the benefits of oranges would be less than the cost of growing them in BC greenhouses when compared with the cost of importing oranges.)

Now, does this seem to be a sober analysis to you?

[maplesyrup]

News update: Aug. 30

Shipping construction of the BC Ferries overseas destroying Liberals re-election chances.

[maplesyrup]

New B.C. ferries to be built by company used by Hitler?

Campbell supports Hitler over workers in BC. :angry:

[maplesyrup]

Lurching Ferries, Lurching Liberals

Lurching Ferries, Lurching Liberals

Monday, August 09 2004 @ 02:00 PM MDT

Contributed by: Robin Mathews

Views: 626 

The B.C. Liberal government lurches from mismanaged corruption scandals to lunatic appointments, from botched legislation to barely disguised thefts of public assets, from vicious attacks on working British Columbians to sadistic ?privatization? schemes to strip adequate shelter from the aged, the weak, and others unable to cope with contemporary society.

The destructive actions of the Campbell government ? too numerous to list in any one or any set of columns ? are no accident, nor are they the result of stupid experimentation in attempts to find new, efficient forms of government. The explanation is simple: the purpose of the wrecking operation is to disenfranchise British Columbians.

The purpose is to destroy democracy in British Columbia.

Those clear statements must be placed beside four others if all is to be seen clearly.

(1) The Liberal government of B.C. has quiet support from the federal Liberal government of Paul Martin. The pretended ?animosity? between Ujjal Dosanjh and B.C. Liberals, for instance, is a sham. Dosanjh helped place the B.C. Liberals in power. The conflict-of-interest appointment of B.C. corporate baron David Emerson as the federal Minister of Industry will further B.C. Liberal intentions to rape and alienate B.C. resources and institutions.

The appointment is, moreover, a general part of the subversion of democratic institutions by Martin/Campbell Liberals in Canada, involving sham party membership purchase, stacking of candidate-selection meetings, and, thereby, fraudulently ?producing? candidates for office. Both Gordon Campbell and Ujjal Dosanjh are alleged to have used the method for personal advancement. David Emerson was ?personally? imposed upon his Vancouver-Kingsway constituency by Paul Martin.

Perhaps it is time to rid Canada of all US CEOs.

[maplesyrup]

Campbell's big F*** Y** to the BC voters over BC Ferries moronic ideas for the overseas building of ships will ensure election of Carole James and the New Democrats on May 17, 2005.

The only thing that needs to be shipped in BC is BC Ferries CEO Hahn back to the US. Who needs these American corporate executive deadbeats anyways?

Ferries flap letters on the way to the Premier

[Stoker]

New B.C. ferries to be built by company used by Hitler?

Campbell supports Hitler over workers in BC. 

Slander

Main Entry: 2slander

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English sclaundre, slaundre, from Old French esclandre, from Late Latin scandalum stumbling block, offense -- more at SCANDAL

1 : the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation

2 : a false and defamatory oral statement about a person -- compare LIBEL

To add to that, I've noticed (just got back from the mainland) that since the BCFC has been privatized that the service is way better........Came home today on the Spirit of British Columbia (and was on her sister last week) and I noticed that the ferries are on time now, I've seen increased safety drills among the crew, the bathrooms are cleaner, the food is better, the terminals and ferries interiors have been improved, and above all the fares have not increased (I think infact that they were slightly cheaper).

I've yet to hear any negative stories about the BCFC other then it wants to purchase cheaper ships........

[maplesyrup]

BC Ferries was fine before Campbell became Premier. We don't need US businessmen coming up here to Canada to run our corporations, and send what should be Canadian jobs overseas.

This is absurd, and it is time for the feds to step in.

Where is Emerson anyways - he is the trade minister, what's his problem? :angry:

[maplesyrup]

Lurching Ferries, Lurching Liberals

Lurching Ferries, Lurching Liberals

Monday, August 09 2004 @ 02:00 PM MDT

Contributed by: Robin Mathews

Views: 635 

The B.C. Liberal government lurches from mismanaged corruption scandals to lunatic appointments, from botched legislation to barely disguised thefts of public assets, from vicious attacks on working British Columbians to sadistic ?privatization? schemes to strip adequate shelter from the aged, the weak, and others unable to cope with contemporary society.

The destructive actions of the Campbell government ? too numerous to list in any one or any set of columns ? are no accident, nor are they the result of stupid experimentation in attempts to find new, efficient forms of government. The explanation is simple: the purpose of the wrecking operation is to disenfranchise British Columbians.

The purpose is to destroy democracy in British Columbia.

Less than 9 moths to get rid of Campbell, and his sick anti-people government of BC. I can hardly wait.

The very first thing new Premier Carole James should do when elected is give Hahn the boot with absolutely no severence pay whatsoever for all the damage he has caused.

[Stoker]

BC Ferries was fine before Campbell became Premier.

By all means explain further.........Do you mean the long line-ups were fine? Lousy customer service? The near obsolesces of the entire fleet maybe? I got it, turning a tool that is vital to Islanders into a form of welfare to BC shipbuilders and a pawn for the Unions, is that it?