Damn Quebec!

[Benz]

Marois has taken it down and as long as she or her party has the power it will never fly again!

What do you think would happen if Canada says, "ok, I agree to Meech or Allaire's report"?

She has just added to the pile of ill will felt by TROC. People do not forget.

What the f--- you think you do? The Quebec bashing and the continuous denial of Quebec's revendication is taking too much place to care about how ill you feel.

And you still think it will be an amiable divorce!

I want some of what you have been smoking.

As a medicinal therapy to endure the beam in your eye?

[gunrutz]

What do you think would happen if Canada says, "ok, I agree to Meech or Allaire's report"?

What the f--- you think you do? The Quebec bashing and the continuous denial of Quebec's revendication is taking too much place to care about how ill you feel.

As a medicinal therapy to endure the beam in your eye?

I can't wait until your gone, i hopefully won't have to hear more on the news about the league of communist Quebec students protesting in your streets. GTFO

[jacee]

What the f--- you think you do? The Quebec bashing and the continuous denial of Quebec's revendication is taking too much place to care about how ill you feel.

Thanks for saying it like it is benz.

The ill will that some prejudiced idiots direct towards Quebec ever since Confederation has always been a major contributing factor to separatist sentiments in Quebec.

That's only natural. I feel it too. I'd like to separate from the Wild Bill and gunrutz types too!!

But it isn't just ill will towards Quebec. Those types have ill will towards any ethnic, cultural or political differences from their own myopic whitebread vision of reality.

They do a lot of harm to the country.

[Boges]

But it isn't just ill will towards Quebec. Those types have ill will towards any ethnic, cultural or political differences from their own myopic whitebread vision of reality.

I'm sure you have plenty of evidence to support your claim that people who oppose the Quebec sovereigntist movement are racist bigots.

Is there anymore whitebread place than Quebec, where they want to ban hijabs and burkas?

[g_bambino]

I'm talking about the period between 1867 and 1939. So we are not talking about the same thing.

I was under the impression discussion works best when all parties involved are talking about the same thing. Do you mean to deliberately cause discord with nonsensical deviations?

Quebec is synonymous to Quebec nationalism.

No.

[ed.: c/e]

Edited September 24, 2012 by g_bambino

[Wild Bill]

What do you think would happen if Canada says, "ok, I agree to Meech or Allaire's report"?

Benz I don't know if you were around back then or if being a Quebecer, you had any idea of how TROC felt anyway but you can blame Mulroney for the failure of Meech.

The deal was almost signed when it came out that ol' Lyin' Brian was saying different things in french than in english! He was so anxious to close the deal that he started to play games with the truth.

At that point TROC, who were already starting to feel like they were being pushed too quickly to be able to read the "fine print", lost confidence in Brian. He is a politician, after all!

People outside of Quebec rejected Meech not because they thought Quebec didn't deserve such a deal. They rejected it because they thought Mulroney was pulling a scam! The average person didn't understand the Meech deal. Near the end, nobody could keep up with all the changes happening to it anyway.

Those were the two things that led to the massive rejection of Mulroney and by association the entire PC Party - the idea that Meech was a scam where he made different promises in french than english in order to get Quebec to sign and of course, the GST. Years later we added the Airbus affair to the list.

It is entirely possible that TROC might have supported Meech or Charlottetown if Brian had not pushed it too far, like a salesman who is just so "slick" that he starts to make his customer feel suspicious and uncomfortable.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Wild Bill

[g_bambino]

Is there anymore whitebread place than Quebec, where they want to ban hijabs and burkas?

If there is, the PQ certainly promised to change that.

[ed.: c/e]

Edited September 24, 2012 by g_bambino

[westguy]

http://o.canada.com/2012/09/17/maple-leaf-taken-down-again-from-quebec-legislature-with-pq-entering-office/

I'm actually rather offended by this. Quebec gets a lot of money from the ROC and Miss Marois wants Stephen Harper to give them more.

The more they do crap like this the more anti-Quebec sentiment will grow and any separation talk will be met with a loud "Meh, don't let the Labrador hit you on the way out"

Check my post on the ROC topic

[westguy]

Not quite as significant as Harper's blatant hatred of the constitution.

He'll be a fool if he tries to criticize the PQ for this.

Give it a break

[westguy]

Payments? What payments, that's all money from Quebecer's, none of it comes from anywhere else, they are entitled, where's Cybercoma, you clearly need a lecture.

thats untrue - the ROC gives them 8b$n "transfer or equaliztion" payments, much of it from the west. and theyr still have a provincial debt of 257b$

[westguy]

as long as they're part of canada they're entitled to them there's no hypocrisy in that...they fully realize that will end if they leave, they're not so naive to believe canadians will accept continued equalization ...and in the end the voters will think with their heads and not their hearts and remain in canada, there is no upside economically with separation for quebec...

if they leave, they will become a french country of 8-10m in an ocean of 350m anglos

[westguy]

I'm just sayin' ...

The PQ flag issue is no more disrespectful to Canada than Harper and his western separatist minions dissing the Constitution/Charter, and also dissing the Supreme Court.

And I stand with Quebec against the western whiners who are trying their best to tear the country apart, with their snobbery, racism, rancor, ill will, pettiness and disrespect.

The west is rich with oil. We get it ... but that gives no one the right to harass others.

Quebec will never suck up to Alberta. Neither will I.

Just sending a bit of the rancor right back where it came from.

like the man said, dont let the door hit your _ss on the way out

[westguy]

Thanks for correcting the original colonies.

My point was that (some) provinces - the original colonies - had powers of the Crown vested directly in them, which they lent to the new federal govt at Confederation: Those powers were not, and could not be taken away from them. They shared them with the feds, then took some of those powers back, as you alluded to, because they had the legal right to ... and still do.

My real point is that so called 'western alienation' is destroying the country, and I'd prefer we cut them loose and revert to provincial powers or the original confederation. I don't wish to be associated with their ethnic prejudices, (The whole world saw it in the stupid 'ethical oil' debacle ... federally funded, of course.) general nastiness, stinginess and apparent hatred for most of the rest of Canada.

I'm no longer a fan of federalism, if it creates such nastiness. It isn't worth it.

I think the East can work out it's own federation. We have much more in common with Quebec than with Alberta.

Alberta does the damage with bogus complaints, raises the separatist ire of Quebeckers, and Ontarians rush by thousands to Quebec to let them know we don't agree with the ignorant Albertans.

Enough.

It's clear Albertans don't have a commitment to making Canada work, so I say ... let them go.

you say that when Alberta is the engine driving this economy and contribute 7.4b$ to the ROC - thank you

The East will function better without them.

It isn't about Quebec separating. It's about the East standing up to the bullies.

[jacee]

There is an important difference here. Alberta PAYS and Quebec TAKES!

BS

This is the myopic semi-literate attitude of people looking for a reason to pick a fight with Quebec. Wht pick on Quebec when there are 9 other provinces a nd 3territories to slam with your ignorance? It amounts to nothing more than ethnic prejudice against francophones dressed up as greed, not a particularly attractive choice of camouflage either.

I don't believe you are from Alberta, Wild Bill, and I question whether you should be making Albertans look bad by assuming to speak for them while you display such poor knowledge of the facts and such a p-poor attitude.

Let's see if you can comprehend the facts:

Albertans each put a little more into the federal income tax pot BECAUSE THEY HAVE HIGHER INCOMES. Albertans are, on average, the richest people in the country ... so they, on average, pay higher income taxes.

Anything you object to there, Bill?

Of course, Albertans weren't always the richest people in the country, and when they weren't, no doubt Alberta received a larger share of the federal pot ... but that seems to be conveniently forgotten.

Another conveniently forgotten fact is that QUEBECKERS, OVERALL, CONTRIBUTE MORE DOLLAR$ TO THE FEDERAL POT THAN ALBERTANS, more dollar$ than any other province except Ontario ... because Quebec has a much larger taxpaying population than Alberta, second only to Ontario.

ALBERTA'S CONTRIBUTION TO THE FEDERAL INCOME TAX POT IS MINISCULE COMPARED TO THE PORTION OF THE POT THAT COMES FROM QUEBEC AND ONTARIO: Alberta's population is 11% of the Canadian total, while Ontario (39%) and Quebec (23%) together contain 62% of the population of Canada, about 6 times the number of taxpayers as Alberta.

The federal income tax pot is divided among the provinces and territories to provide equivalent federal services across the country, so Alberta gets some of its miniscule contribution back too.

I understand that some Albertans ... and Wild Bill ... claim something to the effect that Albertans send $8b to Quebec in equalization funds each year. This is horse patootie: Equalization funds come from the federal general revenue pot, only about 10% of which comes from Alberta.

I'm willing to bet that a much larger proportion of the $20b per year in corporate welfare is currently going to Harper's oil buddies/political funders in Alberta than to any other province. Any Albertans ... or Wild Bill ... want to do the math on that and get back to me?

There's a spreadsheet somewhere on the FraserInstitute site with the names of all of the corporate welfare recipients ...

Fill yer boots!!!

[Benz]

Benz I don't know if you were around back then or if being a Quebecer, you had any idea of how TROC felt anyway but you can blame Mulroney for the failure of Meech.

Blame him yes, blame only him? No. The provinces could have say, it's almost done, let's try to fix this. They choosed the other way around, let's this one die.

The deal was almost signed when it came out that ol' Lyin' Brian was saying different things in french than in english! He was so anxious to close the deal that he started to play games with the truth.

Not enough to excuse what TROC did to Québec.

At that point TROC, who were already starting to feel like they were being pushed too quickly to be able to read the "fine print", lost confidence in Brian. He is a politician, after all!

Too easy. TROC let Québec down. Brian was not Québec.

People outside of Quebec rejected Meech not because they thought Quebec didn't deserve such a deal. They rejected it because they thought Mulroney was pulling a scam! The average person didn't understand the Meech deal. Near the end, nobody could keep up with all the changes happening to it anyway.

How do you explain that? is it because the people in Québec are smarter than TROC?

Those were the two things that led to the massive rejection of Mulroney and by association the entire PC Party - the idea that Meech was a scam where he made different promises in french than english in order to get Quebec to sign and of course, the GST. Years later we added the Airbus affair to the list.

You are mixing up things. GST and Airbus have nothing to do with Meech. If the people in TROC were against Meech because of that, than those people do not deserve the right to vote. It's like being against United States because of Britney Spears.

It is entirely possible that TROC might have supported Meech or Charlottetown if Brian had not pushed it too far, like a salesman who is just so "slick" that he starts to make his customer feel suspicious and uncomfortable.

If 3 years of negociations is pushing too far, what is a 3 months? A rape?

Come on! Mulroney has a huge back on which we can fit alot of reproaches, but not this one. Even if Mulroney was like that, it's not an excuse to do that to your fellows.

If anything you said is true... how do you explain the TROC is still so against reopening Meech and negociate with Québec? How do you fit that on the Mulroney is to blame?

Edited September 27, 2012 by Benz

[Mr.Canada]

This is about the only thing that this woman can do as she doesn't have a mandate to do anything else.

[Peter F]

if they leave, they will become a french country of 8-10m in an ocean of 350m anglos

As opposed to being a non-country of 8-10m in an ocean of 350m anglos.

[Wild Bill]

You are mixing up things. GST and Airbus have nothing to do with Meech. If the people in TROC were against Meech because of that, than those people do not deserve the right to vote. It's like being against United States because of Britney Spears.

If 3 years of negociations is pushing too far, what is a 3 months? A rape?

Come on! Mulroney has a huge back on which we can fit alot of reproaches, but not this one. Even if Mulroney was like that, it's not an excuse to do that to your fellows.

If anything you said is true... how do you explain the TROC is still so against reopening Meech and negociate with Québec? How do you fit that on the Mulroney is to blame?

Perhaps you read my post too quickly. I never said Airbus had anything to do with Meech. I said it was something added years later to the pile of reasons TROC hates Mulroney.

As for fixing Meech instead of voting against it, there indeed was no time. Changes were coming thick and fast and they were not always reported in the media. A feeling developed that Brian Mulroney really didn't want TROC to have time to understand the deal. He seemed like a used car salesman who wanted you to cut him a cheque before you even had a chance to inspect the car.

As for why TROC is still against reopening Meech, are you saying that Quebec would be in favour? Certainly that's never been an impression I've ever gotten. Whatever, one can't say how TROC feels about the idea. No one ever asks us! Chretien's Liberals were terrified of any "Meech II", for fear it would turn into a mess. Harper hasn't been around long enough or secure enough of his power to think about it either.

I was there at the time, Benz. You may not have even been born, let alone traveled much outside of Quebec. I admit my time in Quebec has been limited as well but one thing struck me very hard. Quebecers for the most part feel TROC doesn't understand them yet they know even less about Canadians outside la belle province!

For whatever reason, the average Quebecer seems to have chosen to be insular and introverted within Canada.

I respect your passion, Benz, but whenever you say something about how you think people in TROC feel or felt towards Quebec you always sound totally wrong regarding anything I have seen or felt myself!

Have you ever in your life considered there is room for more understanding on BOTH sides? Because Man, sometimes when you talk about TROC it sounds like you did not grow up in Canada, you grew up on Mars!

[Benz]

Perhaps you read my post too quickly. I never said Airbus had anything to do with Meech. I said it was something added years later to the pile of reasons TROC hates Mulroney.

I don't like Harper and it doesn't allow me to to do anything against the westeners. When the people let Meech die, they isolated Québec. The hatred toward Mulroney is a bad excuse to do so.

As for fixing Meech instead of voting against it, there indeed was no time. Changes were coming thick and fast and they were not always reported in the media. A feeling developed that Brian Mulroney really didn't want TROC to have time to understand the deal. He seemed like a used car salesman who wanted you to cut him a cheque before you even had a chance to inspect the car.

Then why just get rid of Mulroney and offer something else similar?

As for why TROC is still against reopening Meech, are you saying that Quebec would be in favour? Certainly that's never been an impression I've ever gotten. Whatever, one can't say how TROC feels about the idea. No one ever asks us! Chretien's Liberals were terrified of any "Meech II", for fear it would turn into a mess. Harper hasn't been around long enough or secure enough of his power to think about it either.

Bouchard and then Landry, were both asked. If a Meech was offered again, what would you do. They said, we would sign it right away. If the TROC was wise, they would have said "really? here you go, I am offering you it again". None of your politicians took that opportunity.

I was there at the time, Benz. You may not have even been born, let alone traveled much outside of Quebec.

I was 17 when Meech died. I was naive. I couldn't imagine what was happening. How come the TROC could spit on that and solve once and for all the constitutional dead regarding Quebec? Then I saw what was the true face of english canada and became sovereignist. If today a Meech 2 would be offered, I would be in favor of it. But I know now, that as long as Québec will be just a province like the others, TROC won't accept anything just because it doesn't have too. No direct consequences to say no.

As for the travels I did in Canada. I've been in Ontario once. I do visit the atlantic provinces once every 4 years. I just love to visit those provinces. Some day I'll have the chance to visit the west. I went to California, Texas, NY, Indiana, but it doesn't count.

I admit my time in Quebec has been limited as well but one thing struck me very hard. Quebecers for the most part feel TROC doesn't understand them yet they know even less about Canadians outside la belle province!

Alot of Québécois don't understand how come the TROC is so opposed to what seems to them minimal conditions to share this country together.

For whatever reason, the average Quebecer seems to have chosen to be insular and introverted within Canada.

You talk about the federalists?

I respect your passion, Benz, but whenever you say something about how you think people in TROC feel or felt towards Quebec you always sound totally wrong regarding anything I have seen or felt myself!

I think feelings are traps. 5 persons can have 5 different opinions of an event depending on what was important to those person and from what position they perception was. I think what is the important, is the end result. I do totally beleive you regarding how you felt it. But ask yourself and put yourself into a Québécois' position. How come TROC did not offer anything else to solve this? They know Quebec is isolated, they know Québec is not satisfied of the deal, they know it's not ok for the french to let the english to have exclusivity on the constitution. Yet they do nothing, even 22 years later?

Have you ever in your life considered there is room for more understanding on BOTH sides? Because Man, sometimes when you talk about TROC it sounds like you did not grow up in Canada, you grew up on Mars!

I beleive the majority of Canadians would be just fine with a Meech-like agreement. I beleive the silent majority is not heard. I beleive the stupid politicians and vicious medias in english canada are rather jumping into the bash Quebec bandwagon, but the majority of Canadians just want this to be fixed.

But eh! what can we do. The only ones we have news from, are your medias, your politicians and your wacos anti-french. If only TROC would take this more seriously right now, instead of waiting for the next referendum where they will come in Québec and say "we love you" again.

You seem to think that I considere the english canadians as bad people. They are nice people and beside that constitutional issue, I would be glad to continue to share this country with them. I feel they are our friends. Not brothers, we are different nations. Friends is a good term to use. Because friends are together because they want to, not because they are forced to in respect of the family unity. I expect no less of the relation we should have.

As long as our two nations will stay in litigation, the feelings will never be right. You cannot expect from us to consider normal that we don't have our say on the constitution. You cannot expect us to accept the current constitution. Mulroney is not big enough to use that card and justify why the TROC is so against a Meech 2.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Benz

[payday loans]

I just want to leave a thank you message on your picture gallery.