"the english are waking up!"

[g_bambino]

Québécois is not an ethnic group, it's a cultural group not base on the genetic. Anyone who adopts the culture becomes part of it. Whether you are born in Saguenay or Tombouctou, you can be a Québécois.

So says you. There are other definitions of the word Québécois.

[cybercoma]

There may well be people who actually think that. But, it begs the question: Why? What's in place that keeps Quebec nationalists from carving a piece out of Canada to form their own independent ethinc enclave, other than, so far, the majority of their fellow Quebec citizens? There's no law preventing it; just democratic will.

[ed.: sp]

That's been my position. I don't think they need an independent state because they're already afforded all of the independence and democratic representation they need to handle their own affairs. Hence, the referenda failures of the past.

[cybercoma]

However, if they are going to have a vote, I think it' needs to be 50% + 1 of eligible voters not simply votes cast.

[Signals.Cpl]

That is factually wrong if you take into consideration the Act of Union of 1840...

It was clearly attempted to assimilate the francophones, but it was almost impossible due to several factors, including the demographics of the province and the fact that most institutions that would have had to be taken over by the English to ensure assimilation were in the hands of the catholic (read-very french) clergy.

And lucky for the French Speaking population the British did not force them to give up their way of life in 1760 thus making 1840 unlikely to succeed. The British Empire had a choice, please Quebec and leave them be in 1760, which they did or impose certain restrictions to force assimilate Quebec with the rest of their North American Colonies. They could have decided that Quebec was full full of French Nationals and thus poses a threat to their security and thus they could have send them packing back to France or offered incentives to people from the colonies to the south to flood Quebec and thus assimilate Quebec in a short time.

[cybercoma]

They could have decided that Quebec was full full of French Nationals and thus poses a threat to their security and thus they could have send them packing back to France

They couldn't send them back to France because by that time a large majority of the population was Canadien.

[Signals.Cpl]

Let's get to the point indeed. The Act of Union was a blatant attempt, and not an individual initiative, at assimilating Québec. It failed because the intended targets just plain said non. As for full-hearted attempts at assimilating French-speaking Canadians ourside Québec... three generations of Franco-Manitobains had no illusion at how full-hearted the attempts at erasing their identity was.

As for asking the Acadiens... Indeed go ask them they'll tell you how they survived even being expelled from their land.

Yeah, well have you ever wondered where Quebec would be if the British had decided to force their will on Quebec? Redraw the landownership and give most of it away to English speakers from the British Colonies to the south, place religious and language restrictions and suddenly Quebec's survival is in question.

[Benz]

when they think (righly) that each and every Québécois should be able to decide by themselves in which language (French or English)their children will receive their education

We have explained more than once the WHY. But you never argu about the WHY. You just keep repeating the same non-sense racism accusations. For you own good, at least try to raise your intelligence to a minimum level. I'll do you a favor. I'll explain again so you can have a new chance.

Alot of immigrants don't speak french and sometimes barely speak english. They are aware that north american is english everywhere but few knows Québec is the exception. Even among those who knows, some thinks that sending their children to english schools might be more useful for their future in the north american context. I cannot blame them to think like that. Maybe I would in their place. But this is a huge threat to our french culture. Public schools get public funds, this means I pay for them to send children in public schools. Our society is french and it is important for us that it stays that way. It is totally normal that a french society offers french PUBLIC schools in french. It's like that everywhere in the world.

You can still send your children to english private schools. That's the freedom of choice. Either you use someone else's system and accept the rules, or you pay for your own. You are not happy with those rules of the land you want to adopt? No problem, there are still 59 other states/provinces where you can have exactly what you want.

A normal person can understand all that. Only a stubborn xenophobix brainless cannot.

as a Franco-Ontarian I

You have to fight to keep your only one french hospital while english Quebecers have 12 hospitals.

Last time I checked, those backbenchers from Québec were part of the Québec people too.

What is it you don't understand. They were there for a federal purpose. To represent us in the House of Common and nothing else. The constitution is way above their heads. The National Assembly can speak in our name for such things.

I suspect here you didn't get my point. My point is that to the Péquiste ideology Québec as a nation has right to form it's own country separate from Canada but the Innu NATION, the Cree NATION, the Abenaki NATION (I won't name them all, you know where I am going with this) don't have a right to form their own country separate from Québec.

I did not say that and no one in this forum even say that either. All of you think you own them and that their hearts go with you. You see them as your things, we see them as nations.

If you can say Québec is OUR homeland, a Wyendat, an Inuit, a Naskapi can say the exact same thing about the land they inhabit.

Newsflash, that's what Paix des braves says. Ignorance is not a virtue little boy.

running around with rulers to make sure the offending languages are not more than a certain size on a sign (which is treating speakers of that language like second class citizens, and I'll spare you less flattering epithets about it).

I don't care at all and you have no idea how much. Those rules ARE NOT against the english. It's to make it clear that here it is a french society FIRST and english people are allowed to use english as well. You know... sometimes I think about it and wonder if it is the right time to let english people have the right to keep same size letters as french. Then I come in a forum like this one or just see on news that alot of anglos use english signs only and it is pretty obvious that those rules are still necessary.

Actually, the predominance argument is not that different from the argument of those who think English, and only English, is acceptable in Canada outside Quebec. Do you think they're right?

Look how unbalanced you are. If you would have said, that english people outside Quebec want the english letters have predominence over french, I would say "well, there is a logic behind that". But this is not what you are saying. That's because your soul is lost and now you think like those stupid people. Predominence of french in Quebec ==> english only outside Quebec. I'm so glad I don't think in english so I can detect the obvious fallacy in there.

Does this mean it is not MY homeland too as a Franco-Ontarian?

Exactly and they are explain it to you all the time. It's not my beleifs are, it's what reality you are in. But wait a minute... what's wrong with you. When I say that Quebec wants a say on the contitution, it's bad. out of sudden, you beleive you have your say too? No you don't. You are just an individual among the english majority. Franco-Ontarien doesn't mean anything to them. You are en english canadian speaking french. That's it, that's all.

Not an homeland to the Acadiens, the Métis, the Franco-Ténois? That I should accept the same kind of second class status you want for non-French-speaking Québécois?

If you had half of what the anglo Quebecers have, you would be priviledged in Canada, not tolerated as of now.

Look above and tell me you believe I consider myself inferior to anyone because of my language or my identitiy.

You don't, because you considere yourself exactly like the others. You do not have any consideration for your culture as different from the others. You are melted to the others and therefore, must accept that you are insignificant as an french ontarian. You are Canadian by the definition of the english canadian, plain and simple. As an individual, you can be french canadian but, as a nation, french canadian cannot exist. So says the former british empire. Much easier to dominate all of you when you are that divided. That's what they do with the natives too and that's what they want to do with us. But us, the Québec people, do not accept to be drowned into an english sea. How culture, our nation is alive and is a whole, it is one nation and the english canadians have to deal with it. Not just own every singe one of us as individuals.

If you don't understand that concept, you will always swallow their pityful logic and accuse us of racism.

Ask people who have been here for more than one of two years if they believe I consider English-speakers to be my masters.

You don't because you apply their very anglo logic, can't beat them, join them. So now you are one of them. Differences are allowed only on individual basis, so the biggest culture can rule all the others.

[Signals.Cpl]

They couldn't send them back to France because by that time a large majority of the population was Canadien.

Sure they could, who would stop them? The UN? If sending them back to France didn't work then they could choose from dispersing the Quebecers to any corner of their empire. As part of the Peace Negotiations they could have shipped them back to France right along with the French Soldiers they Captured.

[cybercoma]

Sure they could, who would stop them? The UN? If sending them back to France didn't work then they could choose from dispersing the Quebecers to any corner of their empire. As part of the Peace Negotiations they could have shipped them back to France right along with the French Soldiers they Captured.

France wouldn't take them. How exactly do you think they would send them there? France would have probably turned the ships away. They weren't French nationals. They born and bred in Canada.

[Benz]

That's the problem, Cpl. The French do not recognize that there are many voices in the rest of Canada.

To them, there is French Canada and Anglo Canada. They don't recognize Canadians as outside of Quebec as anything but English, no matter if they came from Britain, Bangladesh or any country in between.

They see things as 50-50. There is French and there is English. They don't see Canada as a collection of equal provinces. To them, equality means they get half, because...they're French!

You are so weird. Do you really want that all new comers can have a national identity of their own?

It's the history. English and french were the two nations founding this country. The natives should have a national status as well. We all know why. Every one that choose to come here and adopt this country, should be assimilated to the people of the country. Whether it's french or english.

Your problem lies in the fact that beside the language, you beleive english and french are exactly the same. You are wrong but, not entirely wrong. We are different enough to understand we are two different nations. But we are close enough to share a common union. As long as the will is there too.

I suppose that's fine, but why should English Canadians subsidize another "nationality's" aspirations?

Good question. Why? This is not what I want. I don't want Quebec to be subsided by anyone.

Great, then we can have the People of Ontario being recognized as a nation, Alberta as well, while we are there Newfoundland gets recognized as a nation and then what?

If it's what you need to understand, then DO SO!!! What I see so far, is that for you, provinces are only smaller administrations of the federal that you considere your national representatives. Unlike us, because for us, Québec is our national representative and the federal is just the body to play the role of a union. We belong to Québec first. while you belong to Canada first.

So why is Quebec always interested in whats best for Quebec rather than say whats best for Alberta? Or Ontario? Or BC? A premier will not screw over his/her own constituents in order to appease Quebec

Because the federal is diping his nose where it should not. If the federal would manage only what concerns them, the question would not take place. But because of english Canada, the federal now is constantly playing in the provincial grounds. So every one is trying to pull the blanket a little bit more on its side.

If you would have listen to us instead of betraying us in 1981, the situation would be more fair.

[blueblood]

France wouldn't take them. How exactly do you think they would send them there? France would have probably turned the ships away. They weren't French nationals. They born and bred in Canada.

You'd want to ask some people in Louisiana that little question...

[Benz]

I'm curious Benz, what exactly you find unacceptable about today's Quebec-Canada relationship. Could you post that in concise form?

This deserves a proper response.

I beleive very little things can be done to make it right. I beleive english and french people can live together in the same country in a very natural way if they respect's each other identity. I beleive the silent majority is very open to solve this historical fight that extremists like to burn.

Look...

Québec is a nation. Different language, culture, politics, social choices... etc!

For the people of Québec, their nation is Québec and Canada is just a union of nations. For the people outside Québec, Canada is their nation and the provinces are just smaller administration of the main nation.

How can we adapt this? If we don't, the logical outcome for Québec is to leave. If the canadians would like to find a way to make Québec glad to stay in, what could be done? WE DO NOT ASK MONEY. We just want this thing to be fair.

We want the federal to be decentralised. If you don't, ok. at least, allow a province to be able to Opt Out with full compensation. It must be in the constitution. So the federal can no longer blackmail anyone.

The senate as is doesn't make sense at all. The leader of the federal government can choose the senate members? That's probably the worst senate in the world. The regions should choose their senate. Or the provinces if it make more sense to you.

Judges at the supreme court. Not an easy one. Judges interprete the constitution and it is not rare that a judge from Quebec won't interprete it differently from an english unilingual one coming from Red Deer. The tradition so far is that 3 are coming from Québec, 3 from Ontario, 2 from the west and 1 from the atlnatic. I'm ok with that but, it is important that all of them are bilinguals. Every one should be able to speak one of the two official languages and uderstood without translators. To be judge of the supreme court, you must be have experience (not necesarly profionnal, can be social) in both cultures.

House of Common. If those requierements above are met, the HC can stay as is. If Québec's representation fall to 15%, the only 15% of the seats will belong to Québec. I'm totally fine with this. Sometimes you see some Québécois claiming to have more representativities to the HC. It's just because we do not have a say to the constitution and they think they can try to balance it this way. I don't agree. It's a wrong fight.

Finally, the Québec nation must be recognized into the constitution. So any future federal government will be forbidden to take away some rights to Québec just pretending that it is just a province like the others. I think the natives should be in the constitution too.

[cybercoma]

You'd want to ask some people in Louisiana that little question...

Louisiana is a long way from France.

[jbg]

You'd want to ask some people in Louisiana that little question...

And when Louisiana was admitted as a state, the enabling legislation compelled Louisiana to enter with English as their language. Overall there is no official U.S. language.

[Signals.Cpl]

France wouldn't take them. How exactly do you think they would send them there? France would have probably turned the ships away. They weren't French nationals. They born and bred in Canada.

And New France was a French Colony thus they were French Nationals, Protected By French Regular Army Soldiers, Led by French Regular Army Officers supplying militiamen to the defence of the FRENCH Colony. If the British had decided to get rid of them they could have handed them off to France during the Negotiations or send them to every corner of the Empire. Good luck keeping your culture alive if all 70,000 people of Quebec were send in small groups to Australia, Africa, South America, Australia and the 13 Colonies. They were French subjects, just because some of them happened to be born in Quebec means nothing.

[Signals.Cpl]

If it's what you need to understand, then DO SO!!! What I see so far, is that for you, provinces are only smaller administrations of the federal that you considere your national representatives. Unlike us, because for us, Québec is our national representative and the federal is just the body to play the role of a union. We belong to Québec first. while you belong to Canada first.

Because the federal is diping his nose where it should not. If the federal would manage only what concerns them, the question would not take place. But because of english Canada, the federal now is constantly playing in the provincial grounds. So every one is trying to pull the blanket a little bit more on its side.

If you would have listen to us instead of betraying us in 1981, the situation would be more fair.

You are Quebec first until you need something from Canada then suddenly people who are Quebec first suddenly become Patriotic Canadians. You have not explained what being a nation means, you want to be independent nation in a united Canada and that will never happen, you are a province in Canada, or an Independent Nation,

[TheNewTeddy]

However, if they are going to have a vote, I think it' needs to be 50% + 1 of eligible voters not simply votes cast.

This.

[Rocky Road]

Well I hope Canada stays united.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Rocky Road

[CANADIEN]

We have explained more than once the WHY. But you never argu about the WHY. You just keep repeating the same non-sense racism accusations. For you own good, at least try to raise your intelligence to a minimum level. I'll do you a favor. I'll explain again so you can have a new chance.

When I use the word racism, if indeed I use the word racism, your little condescending non-sense will have some basis. Until then, you demonstrate you see words that are not there.

Alot of immigrants don't speak french and sometimes barely speak english. They are aware that north american is english everywhere but few knows Québec is the exception. Even among those who knows, some thinks that sending their children to english schools might be more useful for their future in the north american context. I cannot blame them to think like that. Maybe I would in their place. But this is a huge threat to our french culture. Public schools get public funds, this means I pay for them to send children in public schools. Our society is french and it is important for us that it stays that way. It is totally normal that a french society offers french PUBLIC schools in french. It's like that everywhere in the world.

You can still send your children to english private schools. That's the freedom of choice. Either you use someone else's system and accept the rules, or you pay for your own. You are not happy with those rules of the land you want to adopt? No problem, there are still 59 other states/provinces where you can have exactly what you want.

A normal person can understand all that. Only a stubborn xenophobix brainless cannot.

Let's substitute the word English and the word French, and we get the argument repeated ad nauseam by those who think that there should not be Franch schools in Ontario. "This occurs at the expense of taxpayers... Pay yourself for your French schools... If you don't like it, go back to Quebec". Nice to see you use the same argument as them (back letter on the language of education).

You have to fight to keep your only one french hospital while english Quebecers have 12 hospitals.

And guess what. We won... with not that much help from the Péquistes and the Bloquistes, as usual. In the meantime, I ca nput a business sign with French on it without having to wait for an inspector to come with a measuring tape to make sure the English is appropriately bigger than the French. And if I sign a contract in French, I don't have to add a clause stating that the two parties consent to the contract being in French. Among other things.

What is it you don't understand. They were there for a federal purpose. To represent us in the House of Common and nothing else. The constitution is way above their heads. The National Assembly can speak in our name for such things.

What I understand is that they were Québécois, and that the constitution was, and is, as much the business of the federal government as of the provincial governments.

I did not say that and no one in this forum even say that either. All of you think you own them and that their hearts go with you. You see them as your things, we see them as nations.

Once again, you attribute to me a certain opinion even after I made it clear that I don not hold it. Are you deliberately lying or just unable to read?

Newsflash, that's what Paix des braves says.

And the PQ has made it clear for year that to them the borders of a sovereign Quebec would be the same as they are now... Never mind the wishes of the first Nations regarding their homselands. Feel free to keep ignoring it.

Those rules ARE NOT against the english. It's to make it clear that here it is a french society FIRST and english people are allowed to use english as well. You know... sometimes I think about it and wonder if it is the right time to let english people have the right to keep same size letters as french. Then I come in a forum like this one or just see on news that alot of anglos use english signs only and it is pretty obvious that those rules are still necessary.

Look how unbalanced you are. If you would have said, that english people outside Quebec want the english letters have predominence over french, I would say "well, there is a logic behind that". But this is not what you are saying. That's because your soul is lost and now you think like those stupid people. Predominence of french in Quebec ==> english only outside Quebec. I'm so glad I don't think in english so I can detect the obvious fallacy in there.

Lost soul, stupid, unbalanced... heard that one before... where was that? Oh yes, it was an english-language rage calling for defenders of the Montfort Hospital to have their head examined.

You can muse all you want about the fact that "we only want preponderence". The objective is clear... that English should be heard as little as possible and seen as little as possible. Let's not forget that the rule about prepoderence in signage came after a UN panel ahd determined that the previous disppositions violated freedom of expression - at time, in case you have forgotten, use of languages other than English was allowed only INSIDE stores; originally, it was not permitted at all. There may be a difference in the methods advocated or employed, but the objective is not much different than that of those who complain about French on their cerela box, at the post office or in the school. As little of the offending language as possible.

But wait a minute... what's wrong with you. When I say that Quebec wants a say on the contitution, it's bad.

Care to show me where I stated that Quebec having a say in the Constitution is a bad idea? The exact words. I dare you. Go ahead, make my day.

You don't, because you considere yourself exactly like the others. You do not have any consideration for your culture as different from the others. You are melted to the others and therefore, must accept that you are insignificant as an french ontarian. You are Canadian by the definition of the english canadian, plain and simple. As an individual, you can be french canadian but, as a nation, french canadian cannot exist. So says the former british empire. Much easier to dominate all of you when you are that divided. That's what they do with the natives too and that's what they want to do with us. But us, the Québec people, do not accept to be drowned into an english sea. How culture, our nation is alive and is a whole, it is one nation and the english canadians have to deal with it. Not just own every singe one of us as individuals.

If you don't understand that concept, you will always swallow their pityful logic and accuse us of racism.

You don't because you apply their very anglo logic, can't beat them, join them. So now you are one of them. Differences are allowed only on individual basis, so the biggest culture can rule all the others.

Do you actually read what you write before posting it? I thought I was bad in that regard, typos and all. But frankly... There has been postings after postings by me over the years on this site stating loud and proud that my identity as a French-speaking Canadian is different and that I will not accept anything less than the rights that go with it, and that means that I consider myself no different than the others, that I have no consideration for my culture, that I have accepted that I am insignificant? :lol:

[Wild Bill]

You are so weird. Do you really want that all new comers can have a national identity of their own?

It's the history. English and french were the two nations founding this country. The natives should have a national status as well. We all know why. Every one that choose to come here and adopt this country, should be assimilated to the people of the country. Whether it's french or english.

Your problem lies in the fact that beside the language, you beleive english and french are exactly the same. You are wrong but, not entirely wrong. We are different enough to understand we are two different nations. But we are close enough to share a common union. As long as the will is there too.

Interesting. I'm curious, Benz Are you of the "pur laine" yourself?

You know, I did not get the idea of the separatiste movement being racist from outside observation. I got it from some Quebecers! I used to work for an American company who had a sales office in Pointe Claire, staffed by bilingual francophones. Several times a year I would go there to catch up on business stuff and in the evenings there would be a party at one workmate's house or another.

They were great people and it was good fun to see how a few Molson's improved my french!

It was there that I was introduced to this concept. What I never realized is that these people had experienced discrimination themselves as they grew up. You see, they were mostly descended from different stock outside of the "pur laine". Originally they had been Irish, Italian or Spanish. They told me that growing up they often endured "put downs" from other Quebecers, for not being of the pure wool! Even though we were not talking first generation but great great grandparents!.

It was a surprise to me. To a modern Anglo kid, this was like history from the Victorian Era. We are so used to people having different ethnic backgrounds that we no longer even notice it, much less care.

Whatever. You or I are not going to solve this problem here on this board, Benz. I recognize that Quebec will do whatever it wants. I just question the problems that Quebec will have to face that go along with separation. Frankly, from your posts I got the impression you think it will all be so easy and painless. I don't believe that for a minute. I think you are thinking only with your heart and are ignoring the real world difficulties involved.

I think those difficulties will be far greater for Quebec than you imagine! Also, if Quebec chooses that path I don't believe TROC will lift a finger to help you! If there is a finger, it will be an extended middle one!

And that will be a pity, for both of us.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Wild Bill

[Antiochus]

And lucky for the French Speaking population the British did not force them to give up their way of life in 1760 thus making 1840 unlikely to succeed. The British Empire had a choice, please Quebec and leave them be in 1760, which they did or impose certain restrictions to force assimilate Quebec with the rest of their North American Colonies. They could have decided that Quebec was full full of French Nationals and thus poses a threat to their security and thus they could have send them packing back to France or offered incentives to people from the colonies to the south to flood Quebec and thus assimilate Quebec in a short time.

Wrong again. The irony was that they needed Quebec at the time because they had to ensure the province would remain stable, as the rest of the American colonies were quickly moving away from the Empire. Had they been too harsh, they would even have lost Canada. It was not a decision coming from the deeps of their hearts, it was just the only politically sound option they had in order to ensure they would not loose the whole of North America. Look up the English governor Carlton, its all pretty well known history today.

By the way, your welcome...

[Antiochus]

Interesting. I'm curious, Benz Are you of the "pur laine" yourself?

You know, I did not get the idea of the separatiste movement being racist from outside observation. I got it from some Quebecers! I used to work for an American company who had a sales office in Pointe Claire, staffed by bilingual francophones. Several times a year I would go there to catch up on business stuff and in the evenings there would be a party at one workmate's house or another.

They were great people and it was good fun to see how a few Molson's improved my french!

It was there that I was introduced to this concept. What I never realized is that these people had experienced discrimination themselves as they grew up. You see, they were mostly descended from different stock outside of the "pur laine". Originally they had been Irish, Italian or Spanish. They told me that growing up they often endured "put downs" from other Quebecers, for not being of the pure wool! Even though we were not talking first generation but great great grandparents!.

It was a surprise to me. To a modern Anglo kid, this was like history from the Victorian Era. We are so used to people having different ethnic backgrounds that we no longer even notice it, much less care.

Whatever. You or I are not going to solve this problem here on this board, Benz. I recognize that Quebec will do whatever it wants. I just question the problems that Quebec will have to face that go along with separation. Frankly, from your posts I got the impression you think it will all be so easy and painless. I don't believe that for a minute. I think you are thinking only with your heart and are ignoring the real world difficulties involved.

I think those difficulties will be far greater for Quebec than you imagine! Also, if Quebec chooses that path I don't believe TROC will lift a finger to help you! If there is a finger, it will be an extended middle one!

And that will be a pity, for both of us.

I would probably call bullshit here since most Quebecois have Irish or Native American ancestry. Finding a true ''pur laine'' Quebecois is actually harder than you might think.

[CANADIEN]

Just want to make sure I understand you here. Canada outside Québec is Anglo land? It is their homeland? Does this mean it is not MY homeland too as a Franco-Ontarian? Not an homeland to the Acadiens, the Métis, the Franco-Ténois?

Exactly and they are explain it to you all the time. It's not my beleifs are, it's what reality you are in.

So, that's the reality according to you? That Canada is NOT my homeland? You know the ramifications of your statement, do you? it means that I am not a Canadian unless I abandon the French language for English. Than me, and over 1 million Canadians outside of Quebec who speak French and have kept our language and our cultures alive, need to abandon them to considered Canadians.

Congratulations. This is the same argument that some English-speaking Canadians have been repeating for generations and which, thankfully, is now falling into the dustbin of history. And of course, you don't even realize how insulting you are to me and other French-speaking Canadians. :angry: :angry: :angry:

And then we have a statement that stands amongst the most moronic ever posted on mapleleafweb.

You are en english canadian speaking french.

I will spare you a full expression of the contempt and disgust I feel towards you right now. Not because the words I'd choose would have me banned. Just because there are no words either in English or French that would fit the bill.

Don't bother responding. You're on ignore.

[Wild Bill]

I would probably call bullshit here since most Quebecois have Irish or Native American ancestry. Finding a true ''pur laine'' Quebecois is actually harder than you might think.

Hey, they were my co-workers and my friends. Their families had been Quebecois for generations. There were at least 6 of them who told me about this!

They had no reason to lie to me. Frankly, I find your implication insulting to them!

I don't care if you think it BS. I knew them much better than I know you and have much more faith in their word!

[CANADIEN]

Well, what is the point? I have been hearing these complaints for a long time and I truly don't understand the logic behind it. It always sounds as if somehow the Anglo majority went out of its way to screw the Francophones.

I don't see how historically anything of the sort happened! If you are a small linguistic minority, there's really not much more the majority can do except pass laws to make sure you are entitled to practice your language.

What else can be done? Guarantee a job? If all the jobs are at places that speak a different language how could any government expect businesses to spend the money and make the effort to accomodate just a few employees? How could they be expected to make companies promote them to better paying higher positions?

If you live in a town with 100,000 Anglos and 100 Francophones, is it reasonable to expect the corner variety store to offer service en francais? Hell, I've gone into variety stores where the person behind the counter doesn't understand English OR French! They spoke a totally unfamiliar language!

If you are in a small minority the world is going to go as it will. There is no malice involved, just circumstances.

I will grant that by today's standards some acts of long ago were wrong. What else is new? You can't change history and it is not right to pay descendants for injustices towards their ancestors. All you can do is try to ensure that all people TODAY are treated equally!

I do not understand why I should feel guilty for things my great grandfather might have done, or what other citizens down the street have done just because we are both of the same race.

I have enough trouble dealing with my OWN sins, thank you!

Interesting question.

Let's clarify first what this is NOT about. This is not about jobs. Nor the language spoken by a convenience store clerck. And it is most certainly not about guilt.

It is about identity. And, in this case, the role of language and culture in it. My French language and the unique culture that goes with it is part of what makes me a Canadian. The same way the English language and her culture is what of what makes an English-speaker in the Eastern Townships a Québécois (and a Canadian).

Because of that, this important component of my and her identity, our languages, ought to be recognized and acknowledge. That means ful access, to anyone, and ful individual choice, to education in either English or French -without this, the language is marginalized. It means equal status for both languages at the federal level, and a wide recognition at the provincial level. It means no laws, regulations, policies that relegates speakers of one language to a second-class status (the ruler rule).

Anything short of that tells me that I need to change to be a Canadian, that she needs to change to be a Québécois. I don't. and she doesn't.

Thankfully, a lot has been done at the federal level, and in many provinces. And call me naive and optimist, but I think it will happen in Quebec too.