Why I love the U.S.

[j44]

But here's the thing. Not everyone reacts the way bud/the buds of the world did; and if you think it's a problem that not every American cares what the world thinks about everything, I personally don't see that as a bad thing. I don't think it's our obligation to care what the world thinks about everything, and I think it would be detrimental to our country to have that attitude. Do you care what the world thinks regarding everything Canada does?

I'm going to ignore everything else because I think this is the most important part.

Not everyone will react the way bud did but a lot (a lot!) of people will. Even people who have a favorable view of the United States.

I care about what image my country has throughout the world. And you should too.

[bleeding heart]

I care about what image my country has throughout the world. And you should too.

She does, very obviously. I'm not sure the purpose of the pretence to the contrary.

[Guest American Woman]

Here's the kind of thing that pisses me off about the US, and I'm sure it's the same for others around the world: Americans, especially politicians (including several speakers at the Republican Convention this week, including Romney), frequently say something along the lines of "The US is the best country in the world!" amid huge cheers (Romney even said the US was the greatest country in human history last night). Really?...Well FUCK YOU!

I agree with you; I hate it when Americans say that, too. But here's the thing - Canadians also say outright that Canada is the best country in the world. I believe Harper even said that "everyone wants to be Canada," although I am paraphrasing. Seems to me that it's ok for the rest of the world to say how great their country is, but the U.S. damn well better not say it.

For the record, Romney, at this convention, wasn't speaking to the world. He was speaking to Americans.

But again, I agree with you; but I feel the same about anyone who says such a thing, not just Americans.

Most people in most other countries, including Canadians, don't go around saying "we're the best!

Oh yes, many Canadians most certainly do. Considering we have ten times the population, I'd say statistically speaking, just as many Canadians as Americans do.

There's a reason why people think many Americans are arrogant: because they are. Saying "you're the best in the world"...with the rest of the world watching, goes beyond confidence to arrogance.

And there's a reason why other nations can get away with saying what Americans can't - because there is so much focus on the U.S., and many resent the power status.

My grandfather was in the Canadian military, and was stationed in Washington DC, therefore my mom grew up for a number of years living there. She said a big difference between Canadian and US schools was that the Americans drill it into the children's heads that they ARE the best, through history and whatnot, and eventually you start to believe it. There is definitely something good to be said of having confidence and pride in your countries, but like wtf?

Where did this 'rant' come from? Seriously. What in this thread elicited such a response?

[j44]

She does, very obviously. I'm not sure the purpose of the pretence to the contrary.

I can't help but think she doesn't care that much.

[Guest American Woman]

I'm going to ignore everything else because I think this is the most important part.

Not everyone will react the way bud did but a lot (a lot!) of people will. Even people who have a favorable view of the United States.

I care about what image my country has throughout the world. And you should too.

I don't care to the extent that I walk on eggshells trying to make everyone have a favorable impression of it. The idea that my opening post even elicits such a response is something I can't understand. I made a point, which people can either agree with or disagree with.

But yes, a lot of people will agree with bud, for a lot of reasons. I should care about all of that? Sometimes people's reactions are a product of their problems and the smartest thing is to recognize that.

But getting back to the original point - Do you think it's a bad thing that a show about Joe America can get as much attention as a show about Joe Politician? - because you've already agreed that the conventions are a "show."

Edited August 31, 2012 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

I can't help but think she doesn't care that much.

So be it. I guess I misjudged you.

[j44]

But getting back to the original point - Do you think it's a bad thing that a show about Joe America can get as much attention as a show about Joe Politician? - because you've already agreed that the conventions are a "show."

I don't see how that show getting attention is a good thing.

[j44]

So be it. I guess I misjudged you.

I very well could be wrong. I just didn't feel that way after this thread.

[Guest American Woman]

I wasn't being sensitive or defensive. I was saying that I thought you were being condescending.

I wasn't being condescending - and I was saying that I thought you were being sensitive or defensive. So where does that leave us?

And it should be kinda obvious that I have a problem with anyone exploiting their children. Don't you see that as what the people on the show are doing?

Of course I do, but I also see it as what politicians do - yet I didn't see you speaking out about that (and again, I apologize if I missed it). Furthermore, just because you see it as exploitation doesn't mean others see it that way. Many thought Shirley Temple was being exploited. Was she? That's another topic, because again, my point was about opportunity.

I don't think saying that you are happy that a show like that can exist and that it is a good thing that it takes attention away form politics is the same thing.

Where did I say I was happy that a show like that exists?? Again. It's about OPPORTUNITY. Whether I agree with everything that comes about as a result of such opportunity is immaterial. Do you honestly not get that?

I didn't say you had to agree with me or anyone else. But again, you opened yourself up to a debate like this when you started this thread. I don't know if you can really say it is wrong for us to disagree with you.

Where did I say it was wrong? I actually said quite the opposite. As for the "opened myself up" comments, I just don't get what you are getting at.....

People paying attention to that show is NOT part of the political process.

I'm not sure of what you are saying here ...

Edited August 31, 2012 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

I very well could be wrong. I just didn't feel that way after this thread.

Feel as you will. That's your prerogative. If you make such a judgement so easily on so little, I maintain my belief that I misjudged you.

[Guest American Woman]

I don't see how that show getting attention is a good thing.

Do you really still believe that that's what I'm saying? That it's about "that show" per se??

Edited August 31, 2012 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

Why I love the US...

Your crazy half - aka the Republican base - has made it cool once again for a western democracy to chant its own name again and again like zombies.

It's endearing to see. I mean that type nationalist pride went out of style after the fall of the Nazis.

Really? and what do you call it when Canadians do it? The Truth?

[Moonlight Graham]

I believe Harper even said that "everyone wants to be Canada," although I am paraphrasing.

I'm pretty sure that was specificly in terms of economic stability since the recession.

For the record, Romney, at this convention, wasn't speaking to the world. He was speaking to Americans.

But the world was watching.

But again, I agree with you; but I feel the same about anyone who says such a thing, not just Americans.

I agree.

Oh yes, many Canadians most certainly do. Considering we have ten times the population, I'd say statistically speaking, just as many Canadians as Americans do.

Per capita, no freaking way. ie: When is the last time you've heard the chant "Ca-na-da! Ca-na-da!". Not as often as "USA! USA!

And there's a reason why other nations can get away with saying what Americans can't - because there is so much focus on the U.S., and many resent the power status.

I don't think people resent the power status as they do what the US does with that power. ie: If the US had twice the miltary it does now, but never used it, there would be less resentment. Not that any other state with the US's power wouldn't also be resented. Would they be more or less resentment who knows? It depends on what they'd do.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Moonlight Graham

[Moonlight Graham]

Where did this 'rant' come from? Seriously. What in this thread elicited such a response?

the post i quoted just reminded me of how I felt last night watching Romney say the US was the best country in the history of human civilization.

[Guest American Woman]

I'm pretty sure that was specificly in terms of economic stability since the recession.

Who cares? He said it. He said every country wants to be Canada. But of course it's ok when Harper says it; it's 'different.' It's fine every time a PM says "Canada is the greatest country in the world" or "Canada is the best country in the world" and of course Canadians are free to say it. It's just Presidents and Americans who aren't allowed to say it about the U.S.

But the world was watching.

What difference does that make?? The election is ours. The country being represented is ours. We don't owe it to the world to watch out for their feelings just because they choose to watch. What do you think the Presidential candidate to say? - The same thing your PM's have said about Canada - without criticism from Americans.

Per capita, no freaking way. ie: When is the last time you've heard the chant "Ca-na-da! Ca-na-da!". Not as often as "USA! USA!

Who cares if it's not as often!? We have ten times the population, and to be honest, I don't keep track of when I hear "Can-a-da!" because I don't freaking care if you love your country. I think there's something wrong if you don't. I also think there's something wrong that you care that we chant USA! because we love our country.

I don't think people resent the power status as they do what the US does with that power.

They are one and the same.

ie: If the US had twice the miltary it does now, but never used it, there would be less resentment. Not that any other state with the US's power wouldn't also be resented. Would they be more or less resentment who knows? It depends on what they'd do.

We'll use it as we see fit, just as Canada and Great Britain et al does; and of course any other state with the power that the U.S. has would be resented - it's the nature of the beast. So whose fault is that?

[Guest American Woman]

the post i quoted just reminded me of how I felt last night watching Romney say the US was the best country in the history of human civilization.

So how do you feel when your Prime Minister says Canada is the best country in the world? I get no negative feelings at all, and I would think there was something wrong if I did. I wouldn't expect your PM to say anything differently.

[Topaz]

You know many years ago when pappy Bush was Prez, I read about many kids, like the Pages that work in the Congress and Senate attended these DC parties and the immoral activites that went on, never really believe it, but showing Boo-Boo, makes me wonder about these politicans.

[jbg]

Edited to add: As I said, the Republican Convention was all for show. Do you think otherwise? Do you think it would be a positive thing if Americans hung on every word?

I am probably voting for Romney but it was, without doubt, one huge infomercial, at best. The one thing good that cam out of it was to show the "convention" could be done in three, rather than four, nights. My vote (which wouldn't count since I'm a Democrat, not Republican) would be for one night conventions, with the facility kept available if we ever again get a multi-ballot convention.

[Guest American Woman]

However, I don't know why American Woman thinks that success, and achieving your dreams, is some sort of uniquely American attribute.

And I don't know why you would believe that I think that success, and achieving your dreams, is some sort of uniquely American attribute - since I clearly said "countries such as the U.S." and "opportunities afforded in our countries." Perhaps reading isn't your strongest suit?

[Guest American Woman]

I am probably voting for Romney but it was, without doubt, one huge infomercial, at best. The one thing good that cam out of it was to show the "convention" could be done in three, rather than four, nights. My vote (which wouldn't count since I'm a Democrat, not Republican) would be for one night conventions, with the facility kept available if we ever again get a multi-ballot convention.

I don't think the purpose of the conventions is to educate the voters, but rather to rally the voters. I do see it as a "show" for that reason - this one complete with Clint Eastwood - and I just found it humorous and interesting that little Honey Boo Boo got higher ratings, for the reasons I stated. I thought it might make for interesting food-for-thought; I didn't expect people to get all bent out of shape about it; but then, nothing on this board surprises me any more.

[Moonlight Graham]

Who cares? He said it. He said every country wants to be Canada. But of course it's ok when Harper says it; it's 'different.' It's fine every time a PM says "Canada is the greatest country in the world" or "Canada is the best country in the world" and of course Canadians are free to say it. It's just Presidents and Americans who aren't allowed to say it about the U.S.

Oh jesus gimme a break. Here we go again.

What difference does that make?? The election is ours. The country being represented is ours. We don't owe it to the world to watch out for their feelings just because they choose to watch. What do you think the Presidential candidate to say? - The same thing your PM's have said about Canada - without criticism from Americans.

Why don't they say "The US is a great country?", or "the US is one of the greatest countries in human history" etc.? Why are they compelled to say "we're the best ever!". I'm sorry, Canadians & Canadian politicians don't do the "we are best country in the world!" thing at the same rate as Americans. Not even close.

Who cares if it's not as often!? We have ten times the population, and to be honest, I don't keep track of when I hear "Can-a-da!" because I don't freaking care if you love your country. I think there's something wrong if you don't. I also think there's something wrong that you care that we chant USA! because we love our country.

Nothing at all wrong with "U-S-A!" chants, but when it comes after "We're the greatest country in human history!" rants by politicians its lame. And there's a difference between loving your country, and believing your superior to every other country now and of all times.

I do love the US, for many reasons, but many Americans, especially on the hyper-patriot right, are a bit arrogant about their country. A lot of American friends I have who are a bit more liberal can be a bit self-critical too though and admit both positives and faults, so it's all good, i'm trying not to generalize.

What can I say, I don't really like wacko right-wingers, in Canada or the US, and watching that dang GOP convention just drove me nuts I guess LOL. An anti-intellegence rodeo it seemed like. People cheering Condi Rice for pete's sake! I feel bad for US conservatives with a brain who have to put up with that embarassment of a party. *rant #2 over*

[waldo]

I am probably voting for Romney but it was, without doubt, one huge infomercial, at best. The one thing good that cam out of it was to show the "convention" could be done in three, rather than four, nights. My vote (which wouldn't count since I'm a Democrat, not Republican) would be for one night conventions, with the facility kept available if we ever again get a multi-ballot convention.

just how can a Democrat... a self-styled, self-proclaimed "true progressive"... vote for the regressive Party-of-No's talking head, Willard Romney - bidnessMan extraordinaire?

[kimmy]

There are many great reasons to love the United States. I don't feel that this is one of them.

I am not sure whether to interpret these ratings numbers to mean that a lot of people watched "Here Comes Honey Boo-Boo", or that few people watched the Paul Ryan thing on Wednesday. I presume the answer may be some combination of both.

---

In regard to the presumably low Republican convention ratings:

Some people watched on Wednesday because they wanted to make a critical assessment or Ryan's speech, or were curious to see whether he would say anything of substance.

Some people watched on Wednesday because they are mindless cheerleaders.

Some people declined to watch on Wednesday because they didn't think there would be anything of substance, or that they would be better off reading about it in the news or obtaining the information some other way.

Some people declined to watch on Wednesday because they are too apathetic or ignorant to care in the least about politics.

There were respectable reasons to watch, and respectable reasons to decide not to. There were also rather unflattering reasons to watch, and unflattering reasons not to.

---

In regard to the presumably high ratings for Here Comes Honey Boo-Boo:

While I don't know a lot of Americans, those that I do know are repulsed child beauty pageants and by the fact that "Toddlers In Tiaras" even exists, and I'm sure they will be doubly grossed out to find that it has a spin-off. This stuff is not one of the things they love about America, much in the same way that the plantar-wart on my left heel is not one of the things I love about myself.

If I recall, "Honey Boo-Boo" was on an episode of "Toddlers in Tiaras" that had so cringe-inducing and so WTF that it went viral on the internet. Since cringe-inducing and WTF are the main reason that many people watch this crap, a spin-off for "Honey Boo-Boo" will probably be a big hit. While that's great news for the 2.9 million people who tuned in to watch it, I bet far more than 2.9 million Americans feel nauseated at the whole idea.

On the other hand, I hear that "Jersey Shore" has been cancelled. I imagine that many Americans feel that's one reason to love the U.S. a little more today.

-k

[bleeding heart]

And I don't know why you would believe that I think that success, and achieving your dreams, is some sort of uniquely American attribute - since I clearly said "countries such as the U.S." and "opportunities afforded in our countries." Perhaps reading isn't your strongest suit?

Since I misread you, apparently not. My apologies.

At any rate, I should probably have made another point as well: I pretty much agree with you. These big campaign conventions are not in any way necessary to make an informed judgement, and are basically reality tv, degraded entertainment for those of us interested in politics. That wasn't the intent, originally, but it is the effect. And no, "Here comes Honey Boo Boo" is not, in my view, more stupid and more degraded than the Republican Convention. It's not my cup of tea, but I don't see it as the worst of reality television. Not even close.

(Although the pageant show that spawned it is among the worst. Gross.)

I also agree with you about the American versus Canadian jingoistic "we're the best" stuff; that is, there is no "versus." They're more or less the same thing. (If not, why not, eh?) No doubt there are slight cultural distinctions, but they are "distinctions without a difference," as the phrase goes.

In both cases, it's mostly harmless anyway (if irritating), especially if it's not actually a political opinion, or rather as the genesis of a political opinion.

(One of the differences between liberals/conservatives, left/right--to generalize a lot, sure--is that the Right more often uses patriotism as part of their political stance, their worldview...which is strange to me, but to each his or her own.)

Edited September 1, 2012 by bleeding heart

[Guest American Woman]

There are many great reasons to love the United States.

Indeed there are, which is why I specifically stated this as just one reason.

I don't feel that this is one of them.

That's your prerogative. I, however, feel that such opportunities, the opportunity for a redneck family - which is part of America as much as the rich, privileged politician is - to garner just as much attention as a political "show," is one of them.

I am not sure whether to interpret these ratings numbers to mean that a lot of people watched "Here Comes Honey Boo-Boo", or that few people watched the Paul Ryan thing on Wednesday. I presume the answer may be some combination of both.

The actual numbers mean nothing regarding the point I am making.

In regard to the presumably low Republican convention ratings:

Some people watched on Wednesday because they wanted to make a critical assessment or Ryan's speech, or were curious to see whether he would say anything of substance.

Some people watched on Wednesday because they are mindless cheerleaders.

Some people declined to watch on Wednesday because they didn't think there would be anything of substance, or that they would be better off reading about it in the news or obtaining the information some other way.

Some people declined to watch on Wednesday because they are too apathetic or ignorant to care in the least about politics.

Wow. So people watched - or didn't watch - for a variety of reasons. Which has nothing to do with the point I was making.

There were respectable reasons to watch, and respectable reasons to decide not to. There were also rather unflattering reasons to watch, and unflattering reasons not to.

Yep. That's pretty obvious. Which again has nothing to do with my point.

In regard to the presumably high ratings for Here Comes Honey Boo-Boo:

While I don't know a lot of Americans, those that I do know are repulsed child beauty pageants and by the fact that "Toddlers In Tiaras" even exists, and I'm sure they will be doubly grossed out to find that it has a spin-off. This stuff is not one of the things they love about America, much in the same way that the plantar-wart on my left heel is not one of the things I love about myself.

Are you truly unable to see that it's not about THE SHOW, but THE OPPORTUNITY for those involved?? Whether or not I like the show, which I've never watched and never will, it gives ordinary Americans the opportunity to compete with a rich, privileged politician, who is part of a political rally; part of a show. Which was my point.

Your response is sort of like my saying that any 35+ year old natural born American can become POTUS, and that's one of the things I love about the U.S.; that even Americans born in a log cabin, using Lincoln as an example, have the opportunity to become president - and people saying, "But I don't like Lincoln or his ideas. I think he sucked as president." It's not the like or dislike of the POTUS, it's the opportunity; which is what I love about the U.S. I don't know how many times I can try to explain what I'm clearly saying before people start to get it.

It's not about the show. It's about the opportunity.

If I recall, "Honey Boo-Boo" was on an episode of "Toddlers in Tiaras" that had so cringe-inducing and so WTF that it went viral on the internet. Since cringe-inducing and WTF are the main reason that many people watch this crap, a spin-off for "Honey Boo-Boo" will probably be a big hit. While that's great news for the 2.9 million people who tuned in to watch it, I bet far more than 2.9 million Americans feel nauseated at the whole idea.

And I bet most Americans, like me, simply don't watch it if they don't like it. Once. Again. It's not about the show, it's about opportunity.

But since you brought it up, *I* bet far more Americans are nauseated by the GOP/Ryan platform regarding abortion and gay marriage etc. than they are by Honey Boo Boo.

On the other hand, I hear that "Jersey Shore" has been cancelled. I imagine that many Americans feel that's one reason to love the U.S. a little more today.

And I imagine most Americans couldn't care less, and simply chose not to watch it if they don't like it, rather than basing their love of America on one television show.

Edited September 1, 2012 by American Woman