westguy Posted September 14, 2012 Author Report Posted September 14, 2012 Westguy doesn't represent mainstream Alberta opinion. He's part of the fringe, American-wannabe minority. Alberta will never separate from Canada. Unfortunatelt that's true. Also, thank you for the compliment - it made my day. Quote
bleeding heart Posted September 16, 2012 Report Posted September 16, 2012 Unfortunatelt that's true. Unfortunate or not makes no difference. It's never going to happen. It doesn't help the cause that Albertan separatists don't tend to be taken seriously. Also, thank you for the compliment - it made my day. I serve in Christ. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
RadAreGoodForYou Posted September 28, 2012 Report Posted September 28, 2012 The rest of Canada doesn't feel like you do. School aside, Quebec is a treasure. As are the other provinces, but Quebec enriches Canada, this mix that makes Canada GREAT! Quote
westguy Posted December 25, 2012 Author Report Posted December 25, 2012 the "treasure' costs this country $8B/yr . That is a net number after taxes paid by Quebecers are factored in. Quote
Smallc Posted December 25, 2012 Report Posted December 25, 2012 Well, since Quebec is one of the main reasons that this country actually exists, I'm not sure your point really stands. Besides, do you want all provinces who aren't net contributors to leave? Is that what your Canada really boils down to? Quote
westguy Posted December 26, 2012 Author Report Posted December 26, 2012 smallc - can you name one other province that has sucked $250B out of the ROC over the last 50 yrs??? As i have stated before I have nothing against helping a province that has fallen on tough economic times, but Quebec has developed a dependency on the ROC. Notwithstanding they have not been required to acct. for the revenue earned by Quebec hydro. Quote
Smallc Posted December 27, 2012 Report Posted December 27, 2012 smallc - can you name one other province that has sucked $250B out of the ROC over the last 50 yrs??? As i have stated before I have nothing against helping a province that has fallen on tough economic times, but Quebec has developed a dependency on the ROC. Can you please understand why that is, how equalization works, account for per capita numbers, and get back to me? Thanks. Quote
Bryan Posted December 27, 2012 Report Posted December 27, 2012 Per capita is a red herring. A more densely populated region requires much less per capita for basic services than a sparsely populated one. What matters most in the case of Quebec is the not just the actual dollar amount that they are siphoning from the rest of Canada, but the fact that they are continuously doing so. When is that big province, with all those resources, all those people, all that culture, all those programs, etc, going to start contributing instead of just taking? Quote
cybercoma Posted December 27, 2012 Report Posted December 27, 2012 Per capita is a red herring. A more densely populated region requires much less per capita for basic services than a sparsely populated one. What matters most in the case of Quebec is the not just the actual dollar amount that they are siphoning from the rest of Canada, but the fact that they are continuously doing so. When is that big province, with all those resources, all those people, all that culture, all those programs, etc, going to start contributing instead of just taking? Considering Montréal and Québec City are nearly the entire reason we were able to settle Canada (honourable mention to Cape Breton and PEI), it seems the province gave you this whole land. How much is that worth? Quote
BC_chick Posted December 27, 2012 Report Posted December 27, 2012 A province, at least theoretically, could be running surpluses and receive equalization payments. Why? Serious question, I never really understood that part and arguments on both sides seems too biased to be taken seriously. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Bonam Posted December 27, 2012 Report Posted December 27, 2012 Considering Montréal and Québec City are nearly the entire reason we were able to settle Canada (honourable mention to Cape Breton and PEI), it seems the province gave you this whole land. How much is that worth? We already supposedly "owe" everything to the natives for being "allowed" to use the land. Can't owe all the land to Quebec too. Quote
Benz Posted January 3, 2013 Report Posted January 3, 2013 smallc - can you name one other province that has sucked $250B out of the ROC over the last 50 yrs??? As i have stated before I have nothing against helping a province that has fallen on tough economic times, but Quebec has developed a dependency on the ROC. Notwithstanding they have not been required to acct. for the revenue earned by Quebec hydro. That assertion is true only within the limits of the equalization program. So I don't care at all. The equalization is a trap. A propaganda program to create an illusion. So Quebec recieve a big share of it. So what? How much Quebec receives from the 2 billions annual Nuclear program? Nothing, despite it has one nuclear plant. How much Québec receives from the 2 billions annual oil development program? Nothing. How much Québec receives from the R&D investments from the federal? Less than its ratio. Last time I checked, it was 16%. How much Hydro-Québec received to develop its energy industry? Nothing. None of those programs, where Québec is a big have not, are considered into the equalization programs. So if we sum up all federal programs, Quebec isn't receiving that much after all in comparison. But Québec isn't the biggest loser. I think NB is. I know for sure that for several years, NFL was the biggest loser even if the equalization programs was saying otherwise. While the province was receiving the biggest share per capita from the equalization, it could get just a tiny percentage of the costal oil benefits. The province was giving to the federal alot more than it could receive in return from the equalization. One day they woke up and realised they were the victim of a federal gang bang. They asked to get their fair share of their oil benefits. When the fedral refused, they removed the canadian flag from all their institutions. It works and Ottawa allowed them to get the same percentage share as Alberta does. One consequence is, they receive alot less equalization payments. The equalization program is a beautiful thing on the principle and is supposed to help the poor provinces by milking the welthy ones. But when we look closer, it's far from being that obvious. It barely balances other unfair federal programs. Quote
Benz Posted January 3, 2013 Report Posted January 3, 2013 Why? Serious question, I never really understood that part and arguments on both sides seems too biased to be taken seriously. Because the math to determine the amounts concerns only certain details. They do not calculate the amount earned vs the amount spent. On top of that, the formula is not 100% known. Ottawa can change it to its own discretion and has account to give back to the provinces. Ottawa plays the role of a generous and fair dad and expects the provinces to be nice children saying thanks without questionning the system. Because dad is the only one who knows what is best for its immature children. Quote
Accountability Now Posted January 16, 2013 Report Posted January 16, 2013 Holy crap. This is insane. So many half truths all based on emotion! Wow! I'll start by saying that I'm from Alberta but I am Canadian first. I have no problems with giving what we give because there will come a time when we will need to take. I fully understand that part. I believe we are part of a team and that its the team that matters. With that being said when a part of your team continues to bring the team down then you should have the right to call them out on it. As is the case called Quebec (and Native reserves). I believe accountability to the team is the most important thing (hence my screen name). So many past posts that caught my eye: - The East developed the west. Very true but keep in mind it was eastern people that came here to do so. As such us westerners are eastern decendants. So I'm not sure about the bashing on that - Alberta steals labour from other provinces. If we didn't put them to work then guess who'd be paying for the EI? Our company has trained numerous guys here so they could get their tickets just to see them go back home. These people use Alberta just as much as Alberta uses them. Which is fine because it all helps the team. - most dissention from the west is because our lack of voice in parliament. Ontario and Quebec can vote and the rest of Canada has to listen. I fully understand why this is but it still creates a sense of hopelessness. - Ontario is home to our capital and our major media base. As such we often hear about Ontario but not much news goes back that way except for oil sands talk. It's much like how we hate Americans for knowing nothing about Canadians. Ultimately I'm embarrassed when anyone wants Canada to separate whether it Alberta or Quebec. Having said that, I can say with most certainty that westguy does not speak for the majority of Albertans about separatism. We may respond that way when we hear the yokels in Quebec talking that way but there is no way we would ever support a Separtist party. I think we actually have one and it gets next to no votes. I have travelled to most provinces and have both business and personal relationships with people there. I can comfortably say we are all better as one Canada! Canada was developed by the English, French and Natives all joining forces to protect and better our land. My only wish is that we could get that sense of team back in this modern day. Canada first. End of story. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Posted January 16, 2013 .... It's much like how we hate Americans for knowing nothing about Canadians. Of course, but if Albertans hate Americans, they have a strange way of showing it based on decades of soliciting American investment, transportation, and export markets: http://www.albertacanada.com/us/images/US-AB.pdf Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Accountability Now Posted January 16, 2013 Report Posted January 16, 2013 Like I said its a very superficial hate! Maybe I shouldn't even use the word hate. It's more annoyance that the US doesnt know much about Canada the same way Ontario doesn't know much about the west. The little brother syndrome!! Don't worry bush-Cheney ...I do 60% of my business in the US so I'm not hating anyone. The thing I respect about Americans most is they are Americans first even though there are such different people across country. Wish Canada had that same way of thinking sometimes Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Posted January 16, 2013 ....Don't worry bush-Cheney ...I do 60% of my business in the US so I'm not hating anyone. No worries....Canadians say a lot of things about Americans and America, but in the end they still take the American money. What Canadians do is far more informative than what they say. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Accountability Now Posted January 16, 2013 Report Posted January 16, 2013 Like when we didn't go with the US to Iraq. That really pissed you guys off. Lol! Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) Like when we didn't go with the US to Iraq. That really pissed you guys off. Lol! Nope...Canada couldn't do anything in Iraq anyway as it was already extended into Afghanistan. I am sure the Iraqis did not breathe a sigh of relief when they heard that Canada's fearsome war machine would not be joining the invasion. Chretien and Martin still begged for oil services contracts after the invasion was over. Edited January 16, 2013 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Accountability Now Posted January 16, 2013 Report Posted January 16, 2013 Nope...Canada couldn't do anything in Iraq anyway as it was already extended into Afghanistan. I am sure the Iraqis did not breathe a sigh of relief when they heard that Canada's fearsome war machine would not be joining the invasion. Whether we could have sent troops or not is far from the point. Canada didn't endorse the Americans going and that pissed you guys off because ol' Bush thought he could dicate what we do. Like I said, I do 60% of my business in the US and I heard many earfuls about it. It may not have bothered you but it certainly ruffled alot of people down there. Quote
Rocky Road Posted January 16, 2013 Report Posted January 16, 2013 No worries....Canadians say a lot of things about Americans and America, but in the end they still take the American money. What Canadians do is far more informative than what they say. Ha! Germany repatriating all their Gold is a sign of the times, isn't it? It just goes to show that the hyper-inflationary us dollar is ultimately going to take down the global economy. See how mighty the US army is when the debt ceiling can't be raised anymore. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Whether we could have sent troops or not is far from the point. Canada didn't endorse the Americans going and that pissed you guys off because ol' Bush thought he could dicate what we do. Like I said, I do 60% of my business in the US and I heard many earfuls about it. It may not have bothered you but it certainly ruffled alot of people down there. Personally, I enjoyed the righteous Canadian stance even as Chretien sat on the fence knowing he could do little in Iraq. That the Americans, British, and Aussies would ignore Canada as quite irrelevant was worth the price of admission. A "middle power" no more. Begging Bush for contracts afterwards was just icing on the grovel cake. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Accountability Now Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 And personally I enjoyed seeing the Yanks spending all that money looking for those weapons of mass destruction. How did that turn out for you guys? Just a hole bunch of money added to the debt and you can't even say you're right. Not sure about the begging Bush part but I also enjoyed when Harper decided to open up the oil pipeline to China right after Obama shut down Keystone. Now that was worth the price of admission! Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 And personally I enjoyed seeing the Yanks spending all that money looking for those weapons of mass destruction. How did that turn out for you guys? Just a hole bunch of money added to the debt and you can't even say you're right. That's what America does...starting with you guys over 200 years ago. One nation is a lone super-power and another is not. Canada bombed and strangled Iraq for "WMD's for nearly twelve years starting with Kuwait in 1991. Not sure about the begging Bush part but I also enjoyed when Harper decided to open up the oil pipeline to China right after Obama shut down Keystone. Now that was worth the price of admission! It's all good...we have photos of Paul Martin playing footsie with Libya's Ghadafi in his tent. Oil makes people do strange things...like Albertans letting 70% of tar sands production be foreign owned. Texans call Alberta their "Back 40". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Accountability Now Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 With us guys? Are you talking about 1812? History booked show the Yanks losing that one but believe what you want. Canada joined the UN run Iraq war because they invaded another country. We walked away from the second trip as we knew it was George Jrs way of making Daddy happy. In regards to Texas....why would Albertans care about what Texans say when the rest of 'Merica doesn't care what Texas says? Quote
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