wyly Posted August 9, 2012 Report Posted August 9, 2012 Giving kids a clean healthy physical/emotional enviroment for them to learn in will benefit them as well. Yes technology can help, but be careful WHAT technology you implement. giving them the tools they will be using in life seems practical to me, ipads/tablets are the immediate future PC's and laptops will begin to fade away...Mr Spocks tricorder seemed like distant science fiction not long ago... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted August 9, 2012 Report Posted August 9, 2012 i've been to a number of math conferences where we are told knowing how to do long division is no longer necessary. memorizing math facts is not longer necessary. things are changing and dinosaurs like you who are living in the past and have no sense of the future of education cant grasp these changes. maybe I'm a dinosaur but I expect kids to learn the process/mechanics of things like long division, once they understand it then there's no point in doing it when a calculator will save time...but I could wrong, my kids tell I was born in the Jurassic age... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
socialist Posted August 9, 2012 Author Report Posted August 9, 2012 maybe I'm a dinosaur but I expect kids to learn the process/mechanics of things like long division, once they understand it then there's no point in doing it when a calculator will save time...but I could wrong, my kids tell I was born in the Jurassic age... many math curricula in canada don't expect kids to know long division as well they don't need to memorize basic math facts as those two processes don't promote understanding. long division with a calculator is tricky because a calculator won't show remainders. its an interesting debate wyly. i've been involved in some very heated meetings. http://www.rationalamerican.com/rp.org/archives/math.html Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
wyly Posted August 9, 2012 Report Posted August 9, 2012 many math curricula in canada don't expect kids to know long division as well they don't need to memorize basic math facts as those two processes don't promote understanding. long division with a calculator is tricky because a calculator won't show remainders. its an interesting debate wyly. i've been involved in some very heated meetings. http://www.rationalamerican.com/rp.org/archives/math.html well that helps explain why when mrs wyly asked to help jr with his math, I had know idea what he was doing... I felt kind of dumb, he was doing stuff in grade six that I had never seen before but if it works I'm okay with it, I'm not going to object to something just because it's different from what I did...I see the sense in teaching different methods of math it's good idea even if I don't get it...I my concern is some young people I've met when caught without a calculator(it does happen) are completely lost,whereas I can always fall back on the reliable the pencil and paper method... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Spiderfish Posted August 9, 2012 Report Posted August 9, 2012 i'm not making anything up. there is a HUGE push for more and more technology. You've convinced me, load the kids up with Ritalin and give em all Ipads, cell phones, laptops, make em interact with a smartboard. Sounds like a recipe for success... Next thing you know, we'll be replacing the teacher with a synthetic human as well, and you'll be out of a career! There's always the pharmaceutical trade. Quote
socialist Posted August 9, 2012 Author Report Posted August 9, 2012 You've convinced me, load the kids up with Ritalin and give em all Ipads, cell phones, laptops, make em interact with a smartboard. Sounds like a recipe for success... Next thing you know, we'll be replacing the teacher with a synthetic human as well, and you'll be out of a career! There's always the pharmaceutical trade. you don't think kids should learn how to use an Ipad? you must have been born in the 20s. get with the times. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
socialist Posted August 9, 2012 Author Report Posted August 9, 2012 well that helps explain why when mrs wyly asked to help jr with his math, I had know idea what he was doing... I felt kind of dumb, he was doing stuff in grade six that I had never seen before but if it works I'm okay with it, I'm not going to object to something just because it's different from what I did...I see the sense in teaching different methods of math it's good idea even if I don't get it... I my concern is some young people I've met when caught without a calculator(it does happen) are completely lost,whereas I can always fall back on the reliable the pencil and paper method... ahh yes wyly. your wife didn't understand the new math called discovery math or constructivist math. this new math means letting kids discover math for themselves which generates greater understanding. teachers are more facilitators now with respect to math. we give kids plenty of time to discover their own strategies to understand math. guys like spiderfish, signalscpl, gosthacked, guyser and others are stuck in the old useless, antique styles of math that relies on memory not on understanding. gone are the days of memorizing times tables, doing long division, and doing 3x3 multiplication. it was explained at a presentation that kids don't need these skills anymore because everyone carries a phone that has a calculator. why waste time doing these useless concepts when you could be spending time letting students learn their own strategies. when they learn their own strategies they will never forget. rote is way past its due date. unfortunately not everyone agrees. but more and more people are coming to agree with discovery math. to be fair these people are against discovery math. i disagree with them but i'll post their website just to be fair, something some people on this forum wouldn't understand. http://wisemath.org/ Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
Bonam Posted August 10, 2012 Report Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) As someone who does science and engineering as a career, I can tell you that being able to quickly do arithmetic in your head (not on paper) without needing a calculator is immensely useful. I can do simple arithmetic and algebra in my head quicker than anyone can do it on a calculator, and this ability can be very useful in meetings/discussions. Learning techniques for division in arithmetic is also very helpful when it comes to algebra and calculus, where you have to carry out these divisions symbolically. For example, synthetic division of polynomials is used in university physics and mathematics courses frequently, and having a solid grounding in how to do long division is certainly a prerequisite to being able to do that. For those not studying math and science at the post-secondary level, however, learning long division probably really is not particularly useful. The key skill that most people lack when it comes to math is to be able to read a "word problem" and understand what it actually means, what information is given and what is being asked for, and then use the simple math one knows to answer that problem. This is something that should definitely be emphasized more in math courses. Edited August 10, 2012 by Bonam Quote
GostHacked Posted August 10, 2012 Report Posted August 10, 2012 ahh yes wyly. your wife didn't understand the new math called discovery math or constructivist math. this new math means letting kids discover math for themselves which generates greater understanding. teachers are more facilitators now with respect to math. we give kids plenty of time to discover their own strategies to understand math. guys like spiderfish, signalscpl, gosthacked, guyser and others are stuck in the old useless, antique styles of math that relies on memory not on understanding. gone are the days of memorizing times tables, doing long division, and doing 3x3 multiplication. it was explained at a presentation that kids don't need these skills anymore because everyone carries a phone that has a calculator. why waste time doing these useless concepts when you could be spending time letting students learn their own strategies. when they learn their own strategies they will never forget. rote is way past its due date. unfortunately not everyone agrees. but more and more people are coming to agree with discovery math. to be fair these people are against discovery math. i disagree with them but i'll post their website just to be fair, something some people on this forum wouldn't understand. http://wisemath.org/ Teaching kids how to use a calculator does not make them understand what the math is about. Quote
wyly Posted August 10, 2012 Report Posted August 10, 2012 Teaching kids how to use a calculator does not make them understand what the math is about. sure it does they still need to understand the process...even when I was in school and that was before calculators a complex problem would be worth 10 marks on an exam, 9 of those marks were given for getting the process correct only 1 was for the answer...the process to find the answer is the critical part, calculators only speed up the process and eliminate errors... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
GostHacked Posted August 10, 2012 Report Posted August 10, 2012 sure it does they still need to understand the process...even when I was in school and that was before calculators a complex problem would be worth 10 marks on an exam, 9 of those marks were given for getting the process correct only 1 was for the answer...the process to find the answer is the critical part, calculators only speed up the process and eliminate errors... They don't eliminate errors. They only calculate what you put into them. Human error is still a factor in that regards. I have no problem with some technology in the classroom, but don't let it replace the teacher. Be smart about it and understand the risks involved in using certain types of technology. But since much of what is taught can be available online, homeschooling should always be an option for the parents that want to dedicate some time for educating their children. Quote
guyser Posted August 10, 2012 Report Posted August 10, 2012 Next thing you know, we'll be replacing the teacher with a synthetic human as well, and you'll be out of a career! Wouldnt this be a bonus considering this trolls ideas? (and he wont be teaching for at leats 5 years so maybe we can hurry those 'bots) Quote
MiddleClassCentrist Posted August 10, 2012 Report Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) ahh yes wyly. your wife didn't understand the new math called discovery math or constructivist math. this new math means letting kids discover math for themselves which generates greater understanding. teachers are more facilitators now with respect to math. we give kids plenty of time to discover their own strategies to understand math. guys like spiderfish, signalscpl, gosthacked, guyser and others are stuck in the old useless, antique styles of math that relies on memory not on understanding. gone are the days of memorizing times tables, doing long division, and doing 3x3 multiplication. it was explained at a presentation that kids don't need these skills anymore because everyone carries a phone that has a calculator. why waste time doing these useless concepts when you could be spending time letting students learn their own strategies. when they learn their own strategies they will never forget. rote is way past its due date. unfortunately not everyone agrees. but more and more people are coming to agree with discovery math. to be fair these people are against discovery math. i disagree with them but i'll post their website just to be fair, something some people on this forum wouldn't understand. http://wisemath.org/ There is something to be said for moving processes from "Deep thought" to "instinctive". Children rely WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much on calculators because their elementary teachers don't understand the math themselves and get caught up in these strange teaching methods. If you can't do 12 x 7 in your head, you might not fail elementary math, but you'll get your arse handed to you in High school relying on the calculator for all of the answers. The Chinese whoop Canadian students at math, and they use the traditional method. All of these other methods are just garbage introduced so that someone could climb the totem poll and get a better job... nothing more. Note: If the person teaching your seminar does not have an advanced degree in math, it is useless. Just FYI. Wife has been on one lead by someone with a PHYS ED DEGREE (LOLOLOLOL) Edited August 10, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
MiddleClassCentrist Posted August 10, 2012 Report Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) you don't think kids should learn how to use an Ipad? you must have been born in the 20s. get with the times. I'd teach them how to use an android device and save the school system millions. ... Or how about just using CHART PAPER? Edited August 10, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
socialist Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Posted August 10, 2012 There is something to be said for moving processes from "Deep thought" to "instinctive". Children rely WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much on calculators because their elementary teachers don't understand the math themselves and get caught up in these strange teaching methods. If you can't do 12 x 7 in your head, you might not fail elementary math, but you'll get your arse handed to you in High school relying on the calculator for all of the answers. The Chinese whoop Canadian students at math, and they use the traditional method. All of these other methods are just garbage introduced so that someone could climb the totem poll and get a better job... nothing more. Note: If the person teaching your seminar does not have an advanced degree in math, it is useless. Just FYI. Wife has been on one lead by someone with a PHYS ED DEGREE (LOLOLOLOL) Maybe you're onto something. I'm starting to get confused. I find this article confusing. It seems like canada is just doing what failed in the usa 20 years ago. I don't know. http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/96.html http://www.aft.org/pdfs/americaneducator/fall1999/wu.pdf Maybe your right. Maybe there are a lot of teachers who don't know how to teach math so this new stuff is used to hide their weaknesses. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
wyly Posted August 10, 2012 Report Posted August 10, 2012 They don't eliminate errors. They only calculate what you put into them. Human error is still a factor in that regards. well ya...understanding the problem, factoring all in the variables, then using the correct process to arrive at the solution...problem solving is the valuable skill not the ability to tabulate numbers, calculators can do that flawlessly better than we can... I have no problem with some technology in the classroom, but don't let it replace the teacher. Be smart about it and understand the risks involved in using certain types of technology. when and where has it been suggested teachers are to be replaced? But since much of what is taught can be available online, homeschooling should always be an option for the parents that want to dedicate some time for educating their children. the vast majority of parents are hopelessly inadequate when it comes to teaching...people have this weird idea that just because that know something(or just more than their kids) that qualifies them to teach, they over vastly over estimate their abilities... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted August 10, 2012 Report Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) There is something to be said for moving processes from "Deep thought" to "instinctive". Children rely WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much on calculators because their elementary teachers don't understand the math themselves and get caught up in these strange teaching methods. If you can't do 12 x 7 in your head, you might not fail elementary math, but you'll get your arse handed to you in High school relying on the calculator for all of the answers. what it is you don't understand the math not elementary teachers, time doesn't stand still methodology changes...The Chinese whoop Canadian students at math, and they use the traditional method. All of these other methods are just garbage introduced so that someone could climb the totem poll and get a better job... nothing more.that's BS a myth, any difference between canadian scores and chinese are minimal, what accounts for any difference is parental/societal approach, chinese parents tend to be more demanding of their kids than canadian parents...someone earlier mentioned chinese kids in our schools here do better than canadian kids? huh? how is that possible aren't those chinese kids being taught with the same teaching methods you're so critical of?...because performance/motivation required from the parents is different...Hong Kong rated as one of the leaders in math scores has a instructional method very similar to the USA which trails far behind in test results, how can that be?...Hong Kong is looking at or has already overhauled their system of teaching math, it relies to much on rote learning and not enough on critical thinking they see rote learning which the dinosaurs here love as flawed...so how do Hong Kong kids rate so much higher than american kids?... culture...Hong Kong kids spend long hours outside of school at home and in tutorials memorizing every factual detail... and I don't think you have any idea what methods the chinese use, you're just making shitte up... what we have here is a bunch of grumpy old farts claiming everything was better in their day, we don't like these new fangled methods we don't understand... Note: If the person teaching your seminar does not have an advanced degree in math, it is useless. Just FYI. Wife has been on one lead by someone with a PHYS ED DEGREE hmmm fyi people do have multiple qualifications, I know a cardiologist who is also an electrical engineer... Edited August 10, 2012 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
socialist Posted August 11, 2012 Author Report Posted August 11, 2012 An article about K-12 calculator usage and how it impacts university. My head is spinning. I'm being pulled in too many directions with regards to math. http://www.math.jhu.edu/~wsw/ED/pubver.pdf Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
wyly Posted August 11, 2012 Report Posted August 11, 2012 An article about K-12 calculator usage and how it impacts university. My head is spinning. I'm being pulled in too many directions with regards to math. http://www.math.jhu.edu/~wsw/ED/pubver.pdf lots and lots of unknown variables in that survey...calculators are machines/tools, they're stupid they only know the info we put in them...if the person doing the input doesn't understand what he/she is doing the calculator isn't responsible for the error....rote learning, a slide rule or an abacus are all useless without critical thinking...the tool is not the problem, tools are dumb... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
MiddleClassCentrist Posted August 11, 2012 Report Posted August 11, 2012 hmmm fyi people do have multiple qualifications, I know a cardiologist who is also an electrical engineer... Yeah, I Think you missed the complete an utter lack of demonstration fo deeper mathematical understanding and only having a phys ed degree (which is a joke to begin with) Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
wyly Posted August 11, 2012 Report Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) Yeah, I Think you missed the complete an utter lack of demonstration fo deeper mathematical understanding and only having a phys ed degree (which is a joke to begin with) you made an assumption of someone's mathematical understanding there's just hearsay...you must be veeeery old I don't think it's been called PHYS ED for 20 yrs...you seriously underestimate and denigrate what is required for a degree in Kineisology....which is a common arrogance people thinking only what they do and know has any value...if you or someone you know recovers from a stroke or a serious accident and needs to learn to walk again that will be a Kinesology grad doing the rehabilitation... Edited August 12, 2012 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Moonlight Graham Posted August 12, 2012 Report Posted August 12, 2012 Ahh, so you are trolling. Do you know why kids can't sit still? It's because they are kids and have lots of energy. Unless you think drugging them up and sitting their fat diabetic ass on the couch to play video games while you feed them junk food is a good idea, then will you offer up your own children up for the cause? Hmm, keep it up and you might get into my top five fave trollers on MLW. I agree, this can't be for real. Must be a troll. A darn good one though lol. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
socialist Posted August 12, 2012 Author Report Posted August 12, 2012 I agree, this can't be for real. Must be a troll. A darn good one though lol. You don't understand public education so you have nothing worthwhile to add to this invigorating discussion. Do you even know about the new teaching methods out there? Or are you one of those dinosaurs stuck on how things were done in the 70s. Which is it? Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
MiddleClassCentrist Posted August 12, 2012 Report Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) you made an assumption of someone's mathematical understanding there's just hearsay...you must be veeeery old I don't think it's been called PHYS ED for 20 yrs...you seriously underestimate and denigrate what is required for a degree in Kineisology....which is a common arrogance people thinking only what they do and know has any value...if you or someone you know recovers from a stroke or a serious accident and needs to learn to walk again that will be a Kinesology grad doing the rehabilitation... Human Kinetics and other associated degrees are a joke. It's where the athletes go who can't actually maintain grades in real programs. They get credits for showing up and playing volleyball... wtf? It's like me showing up and getting Information Technology credits for playing video games lol. You overestimate the skill required. Human kinetics/Kinesiology is to the Medical profession as Security Officers are to the RCMP. I'm not saying they are not important, when the internet/electronics die from a solar flare we'll need someone to run letters around but, I would want someone who is proven to be skilled in Mathematical thinking teaching my children Math... Just saying Edited August 12, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Saje Posted August 15, 2012 Report Posted August 15, 2012 I understand the OP is probably a troll but I'd like to add my thoughts. There is no 'best' way to educate people. It all depends on the teachers, parents, school system and individual child. Everyone has different needs and learns in different ways. My kids will go to public school, but I'd love to take them out of school for a year and travel. We'd do "distance education," which follows provincial curriculum. How would this be worse than a child getting a few minutes of one-on-one attention during the day due to packed classrooms and exhausted teachers? Not to mention there is plenty of " no hate, bigotry, or intolerance being taught at public schools." That is where most bullying starts. There are intolerant teachers. Children also spread the hate/bigotry/intolerance that they learn at home. Quote
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