Defending the border

[The_Squid]

Is border security an issue for Canada or the USA? Can we ever talk about stemming the flow of guns/drugs in either direction when an American can walk up to their side with a bag of guns and a Canadian on our side can shake hands and receive the bag of guns and hand over some BC bud! How do we enforce that?

Another part of the border that you can literally walk across.

This google streetview image is looking from the Cdn side across to America.

One solution would be to have the same laws in both countries. But this isn't realistic whatsoever for the foreseeable future.

[Topaz]

You do know the US have drones flying over all the borders of US and Canada?

[The_Squid]

You do know the US have drones flying over all the borders of US and Canada?

Huh.... You think they could see neighbours exchanging drugs/guns? Take a look at the map. Across the street is USA. With no fence whatsoever. Drones aren't going to catch much....

[Topaz]

Here's a video about the drones and how its works, which is pretty stupid of the guy telling CBC how it works, they track your body heat. So IF one really wanted to cross the border, get a liquid cooled suit.

[guyser]

When I played Jr Hockey in BC, just down the street was the border, guarded by a chain across the road or a toll gate type setup.

It was not uncommon on a Sunday to call freinds in the US to bring beer to the border where we would buy it from them, yes, just passing it across the border.

Sneaking in was not really sneaking either, we just went around the gate and kept walking or had a cab come meet us. Very common.

When we went 4 wheeling we tried to ensure that we didnt stray to far into the US but never really got bothered if we found out we were. No one around to do anything about it.

Now I imagine it is quite different, in fact all the above is probably not evern remotely fathomable today.

Its a big border and there is no doubt much of it is unwatched at any given time, however .....you have to guess right when that time is.

[Guest American Woman]

I think that some parts of the border that appear to be unguarded are monitored by cameras and sensors on the U.S. side - and of course there are patrol cars making rounds, so it's as you said guyser, you have to guess when they are not there - and I imagine they aren't always visible. Seems to me one would be taking a chance to illegally cross the border these days.

[Canuckistani]

Not sure what the point is. We know there's tonnes (literally) of bud and X flowing south and coke and guns flowing north. No drones, chain link fences or cameras are stopping them. Same with Mexico.

[jbg]

When Canadians thing of "the border" do they mean the border between Newfoundland and St. Pierre and Miquelon? Or the Davis Strait border with Denmark/Greenland?

[GostHacked]

Huh.... You think they could see neighbours exchanging drugs/guns? Take a look at the map. Across the street is USA. With no fence whatsoever. Drones aren't going to catch much....

The drones are catching one thing .... heat from the Pakistanis.

[Argus]

Most of the drugs and guns come north through the reserves that straddle the border anyway, so there's not a lot we can do to impede the flow unless some politician grows a pair and starts searching cars and trucks leaving the reserves.

As for going the other way, the border serves a useful security purpose in that any Muslim extremists who want to blow things up would generally prefer crossing the border to the US rather than making a mess here. The US is like a big rat trap with cheese in it so that any rats in Canada are attracted to the cheese and leave us alone.

[Shady]

And in the U.S. you can't talk about actually securing the southern border without being called a racist.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Shady

[Wild Bill]

You do know the US have drones flying over all the borders of US and Canada?

Topaz, can a drone see down through the roof of a building? Or a car?

Hell, all criminals would need to protect themselves from a drone would be an umbrella!

[GostHacked]

Topaz, can a drone see down through the roof of a building? Or a car?

Hell, all criminals would need to protect themselves from a drone would be an umbrella!

You think there are just cameras on the drones? In many cases the drones being used in the USA are the same type of drones used to kill people overseas. Just depends on how they are outfitted.

[Signals.Cpl]

You think there are just cameras on the drones? In many cases the drones being used in the USA are the same type of drones used to kill people overseas. Just depends on how they are outfitted.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion? I highly doubt that the US has armed their drones in any way shape or form when patroling the continental US, and if they have done so it would be on a limited scale for specific situations.

[GostHacked]

How on earth did you come to that conclusion? I highly doubt that the US has armed their drones in any way shape or form when patroling the continental US, and if they have done so it would be on a limited scale for specific situations.

You can doubt, but if it's not already happening, it will be very soon.

[Guest American Woman]

How on earth did you come to that conclusion? I highly doubt that the US has armed their drones in any way shape or form when patroling the continental US, and if they have done so it would be on a limited scale for specific situations.

This is the best article I've found: Drones over US to get weaponized – so far, non-lethally

American police officers may soon be able to use unmanned aircraft not only for surveillance, but also for offensive action. The drones may be equipped to fire rubber rounds and tear gas.

[Signals.Cpl]

You can doubt, but if it's not already happening, it will be very soon.

And what would they do? Blow up people crossing the border? How would any government justify killing civilians in order to prevent smuggling goods or illegal aliens coming in country? It's one thing to use UAV's to monitor the border, but its a whole different thing to arm them, and it will not happen except for special situations.

[Signals.Cpl]

This is the best article I've found: Drones over US to get weaponized – so far, non-lethally

American police officers may soon be able to use unmanned aircraft not only for surveillance, but also for offensive action. The drones may be equipped to fire rubber rounds and tear gas.

When I read GH's posts I think he is talking about outfitting them the same way as those in Afghanistan. To me at least, there is significant difference between lethal weapons over the US, and non lethal weapons.

[GostHacked]

And what would they do? Blow up people crossing the border? How would any government justify killing civilians in order to prevent smuggling goods or illegal aliens coming in country? It's one thing to use UAV's to monitor the border, but its a whole different thing to arm them, and it will not happen except for special situations.

Sure, and the government does not do warrantless wiretapping, they don't feel you up at the airport and throw you through a radiation scanner, they don't lie to you about the financial bailouts, they don't lie to you about the foreign wars, they don't lie to you and the economic situation, they don't lie about all the other technology used to spy on your daily life. No these guys never lie about that stuff. It's all for good right? It's all for terrorism right?

This is not about keeping terrorists out, seems more like to keep people in.

[Signals.Cpl]

Sure, and the government does not do warrantless wiretapping, they don't feel you up at the airport and throw you through a radiation scanner, they don't lie to you about the financial bailouts, they don't lie to you about the foreign wars, they don't lie to you and the economic situation, they don't lie about all the other technology used to spy on your daily life. No these guys never lie about that stuff. It's all for good right? It's all for terrorism right?

This is not about keeping terrorists out, seems more like to keep people in.

For what reason do you believe that the government of the United States or Canada would arm UAV's with missiles, MG's and other nasty little weapons? What do you think will happen if a heavily armed UAV crashes in a residential neighbourhood in any populated centre of this two countries? There is no use for Armed UAV's in NA, at least in the US and Canada. You seem to be confused, at this end a mistake that kills 10-15 people would have more impact than a mistake that kills 10-15 Afghanis, its sad to say but its the truth and thus UAVs will most likely remain armed with non-lethal weapons.

[Guest American Woman]

When I read GH's posts I think he is talking about outfitting them the same way as those in Afghanistan. To me at least, there is significant difference between lethal weapons over the US, and non lethal weapons.

Oh, I agree. I likely should have made it more clear, but I was offering up the link in support of what you had said.

[Topaz]

Topaz, can a drone see down through the roof of a building? Or a car?

Hell, all criminals would need to protect themselves from a drone would be an umbrella!

Hey, I would say no BUT tech. is on the case. http://phys.org/news/2012-08-see-through-wall-surveillance-wifi-shown-ucl.html

[Wild Bill]

Hey, I would say no BUT tech. is on the case. http://phys.org/news/2012-08-see-through-wall-surveillance-wifi-shown-ucl.html

Well, one thing i DO know is radio waves! If you read this article you will see that they are talking about a way to see if people are there and if they are sitting still or moving.

That's it! That doesn't mean they can tell if you are passing a cigarette or a joint, a box of heroin or a package of Depends adult diapers, a bomb or a package of licorice.

If I were a target already identified as a bad guy I might worry about a drone overhead. Otherwise, who gives a hoot?

[GostHacked]

For what reason do you believe that the government of the United States or Canada would arm UAV's with missiles, MG's and other nasty little weapons? What do you think will happen if a heavily armed UAV crashes in a residential neighbourhood in any populated centre of this two countries? There is no use for Armed UAV's in NA, at least in the US and Canada. You seem to be confused, at this end a mistake that kills 10-15 people would have more impact than a mistake that kills 10-15 Afghanis, its sad to say but its the truth and thus UAVs will most likely remain armed with non-lethal weapons.

One already crashed. Good thing it was not armed. There are several drone flight centers already in the USA.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/us-surevillance-drone-crashes-on-eastern-shore-navy-says/2012/06/11/gJQAjXBcVV_story.html

Naval officials said the drone was on a test flight, but they could not immediately say whether drones are routinely tested over the Chesapeake Bay or Eastern Shore. They were also not certain from what ground-based facility the aircraft was being piloted. It crashed just after midday about 22 miles east of the Naval Air Station at Patuxent River.

There are also massive concerns about these drones crashing into other aircraft. There have already been a few near misses.

http://rt.com/usa/news/drone-plane-colorado-pilot-529/

An airline pilot came close to crashing his plane near Denver, Colorado this week after encountering a mysterious object in the sky thought to be an unmanned drone aircraft.

A tape recording made available this week confirms that the pilot of a Cessna Citation 525 CJ1 radioed air traffic controllers outside of Denver on Monday after nearly colliding with an unidentified flying object. Several factors have suggested that the aircraft was most likely a robotic drone aircraft.

According to the record, the pilot came close to hitting what he described as “a large remote-controlled aircraft.”

The Cessna’s pilot says that the craft was encountered at around 8,000 feet above sea level, or 2,800 feet above the ground in near the highly elevated city of Denver.

Police are going to outfit the drones with non-lethal weapons. Well at sometime this will be lethal weapons.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/05/23/groups-concerned-over-arming-of-domestic-drones/

[Signals.Cpl]

One already crashed. Good thing it was not armed. There are several drone flight centers already in the USA.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/us-surevillance-drone-crashes-on-eastern-shore-navy-says/2012/06/11/gJQAjXBcVV_story.html

So? One unarmed drone crashing and having drone " flight centres" does not mean that the government will be arming drones with lethal weapons.

There are also massive concerns about these drones crashing into other aircraft. There have already been a few near misses.

http://rt.com/usa/news/drone-plane-colorado-pilot-529/

Thats for the authorities to deal with, this does not once again mean that we will see armed drones.

Police are going to outfit the drones with non-lethal weapons. Well at sometime this will be lethal weapons.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/05/23/groups-concerned-over-arming-of-domestic-drones/

At a time and a place that is appropriate for the situation, blowing up terrorists in Iraq or Afghanistan is one thing, but killing Americans/Canadians in North America is quite another. There is a time and a place for everything, arming drones would have its time and place but it would be a for a well defined mission with limited objectives. Nothing you have presented supports your argument that there would be armed drones in the apron a regular basis, all it tells me is that Law Enforcement will use another tool in their arsenal to fight against criminals.