DND mess

[Argus]

So now we learn the reason that big truck purchase bid was cancelled at the very last minute. DND had, since it got permission to buy the trucks, added on so many bells and whistles it had almost doubled the price. They were going to let out bids on a $770 million contract when they had only gotten permission to spend $400.

Citizen

It's been obvious for some time that McKay is not the man to run DND. Whether he's an idiot or an absentee or just totally in the pockets of the generals and bureaucrats he seems largely oblivious to what's going on and incapable of reigning in his people.

An appropriate change would seem to be to have him and John Baird switch jobs. McKay seems tailor made for the wine and cheese party set, and the bureaucrats at DND really deserve John Baird. He's also been Harper's hatchet man for troublesome jobs since day one of this government, and getting control of these people (and firing lots of them) would seem to be something well within his capabilities.

[madmax]

So now we learn the reason that big truck purchase bid was cancelled at the very last minute. DND had, since it got permission to buy the trucks, added on so many bells and whistles it had almost doubled the price. They were going to let out bids on a $770 million contract when they had only gotten permission to spend $400.

Citizen

It's been obvious for some time that McKay is not the man to run DND. Whether he's an idiot or an absentee or just totally in the pockets of the generals and bureaucrats he seems largely oblivious to what's going on and incapable of reigning in his people.

An appropriate change would seem to be to have him and John Baird switch jobs. McKay seems tailor made for the wine and cheese party set, and the bureaucrats at DND really deserve John Baird. He's also been Harper's hatchet man for troublesome jobs since day one of this government, and getting control of these people (and firing lots of them) would seem to be something well within his capabilities.

I remember when there were people defending this truck purchasee a few years back. Which ironically shows how slow the process is.

I I believe Army Guy pointed this out, I would love to dig up that old thread but it was one of those Thread drifts regarding Afghanistan.

[j44]

I want McKay gone from cabinet. Period.

But I can't see The Boss switching those 2. It would essentially be a demotion for Baird and despite my dislike of this government's foreign policy I think Baird is decent at FAIT

And McKay moving there would be a promotion. And be a sign of weakness from The Boss. Possibly.

[punked]

I want McKay gone from cabinet. Period.

But I can't see The Boss switching those 2. It would essentially be a demotion for Baird and despite my dislike of this government's foreign policy I think Baird is decent at FAIT

And McKay moving there would be a promotion. And be a sign of weakness from The Boss. Possibly.

McKay has something on Harper so he wont be going anywhere. Seriously there is only reason to keep him around after the whole private flight from his fishing trip by DND. He has something and is willing to bring the government down with him.

[j44]

If that Is the case why would McKay accept the previous demotions?

[Moonlight Graham]

Not a good year for the DND. MacKay and Toews need to go, PLEASE. At least shuffle them.

[bush_cheney2004]

Not a good year for the DND. MacKay and Toews need to go, PLEASE. At least shuffle them.

I guess not. Trucks? Seriously? Trucks?

[DogOnPorch]

I guess not. Trucks? Seriously? Trucks?

Yeah...ours were seen on the hit TV show 'The Waltons' driving John-Boy into Charlottesville. Pretty olde.

[punked]

If that Is the case why would McKay accept the previous demotions?

I think going from FA to Defense at the hight of the War was a step up or at least a side step.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah...ours were seen on the hit TV show 'The Waltons' driving John-Boy into Charlottesville. Pretty olde.

Well hell, no wunder 'dem dare new fangled F-35 fiters are a 'causin such a ruckus!

[DogOnPorch]

Well hell, no wunder 'dem dare new fangled F-35 fiters are a 'causin such a ruckus!

Flyin' is the Devil's work.

[j44]

I think going from FA to Defense at the hight of the War was a step up or at least a side step.

That could be argued but you could also say it was a demotion. And to me, Fantino being named associate minister was undercutting McKay.

[punked]

That could be argued but you could also say it was a demotion. And to me, Fantino being named associate minister was undercutting McKay.

I would agree but he didn't remove him. The question is why, you can say a lot of Steven J Harper but I have never thought him to be one to cover up other peoples mistakes unless it could be tied back to him. Why hasn't he done with MacKay yet? The only thing I think of is MacKay knows something.

[capricorn]

I want McKay gone from cabinet. Period.

I doubt Harper will turf McKay. McKay's wife is a well regarded Iranian born human rights activist. To dump McKay would be to open a floodgate of racism accusations against the Conservatives.

[DogOnPorch]

Frankly, most of these bozos couldn't sell a used car let alone choose a proper piece of equipment. MacKay is a lawyer...not sure how that relates to aviation or trucking other than liability. In both senses of that...

[j44]

I would agree but he didn't remove him. The question is why, you can say a lot of Steven J Harper but I have never thought him to be one to cover up other peoples mistakes unless it could be tied back to him. Why hasn't he done with MacKay yet? The only thing I think of is MacKay knows something.

I think it is more or less just politics than some deep dark secret. McKay being from the MAritimes, he is liked by the soldiers, PC, etc.

I doubt Harper will turf McKay. McKay's wife is a well regarded Iranian born human rights activist. To dump McKay would be to open a floodgate of racism accusations against the Conservatives.

I don't think he will either but I doubt for that reason. It isn't like Harper cares what the left of the NDP thinks.

Edited July 18, 2012 by j44

[Wild Bill]

I would agree but he didn't remove him. The question is why, you can say a lot of Steven J Harper but I have never thought him to be one to cover up other peoples mistakes unless it could be tied back to him. Why hasn't he done with MacKay yet? The only thing I think of is MacKay knows something.

I don't know how old you are, punked. Or how good of a memory you possess. I'm surprised that you attribute McKay's longevity in cabinet to some sort of skullduggery when the answer is open and obvious!

Harper owes McKay for making the Alliance/Pc merger happen! That is a debt that will run in perpetuity! If Harper were to ever appear to demote McKay it could open a giant rift within their party.

Perhaps after all this time a rift would not happen but there are also other powerful political factors. It was Mulroney who coined the famous term "you dance with who brung ya!", meaning that you should never forget who helped you in politics. The merger might never have happened if McKay had not have greased the wheels! It even took a double cross of David Orchard, although many if not most would have argued that even a double cross of Orchard was justified, since allowing Orchard to have his way would have spelled the end of the PC party that much faster.

Anyhow, Harper really has little or no choice. If McKay were truly competent there are other more high profile cabinet posts but he's not, so what else can he do with McKay?

[punked]

I don't know how old you are, punked. Or how good of a memory you possess. I'm surprised that you attribute McKay's longevity in cabinet to some sort of skullduggery when the answer is open and obvious!

Harper owes McKay for making the Alliance/Pc merger happen! That is a debt that will run in perpetuity! If Harper were to ever appear to demote McKay it could open a giant rift within their party.

Perhaps after all this time a rift would not happen but there are also other powerful political factors. It was Mulroney who coined the famous term "you dance with who brung ya!", meaning that you should never forget who helped you in politics. The merger might never have happened if McKay had not have greased the wheels! It even took a double cross of David Orchard, although many if not most would have argued that even a double cross of Orchard was justified, since allowing Orchard to have his way would have spelled the end of the PC party that much faster.

Anyhow, Harper really has little or no choice. If McKay were truly competent there are other more high profile cabinet posts but he's not, so what else can he do with McKay?

Maybe this statement is true but to suffer fools one of the biggest part of the budget in this country is not only bad governance but dangerous. I wouldn't think any debt should be worth the mistakes that have been made at DND over the last few years. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Edited July 18, 2012 by punked

[j44]

This is only a hunch and maybe not likely but Is it possible Harper is letting McKay dig is own grave? I would bet Harper doesn't want Peter as leader and as long as he has these high profile screw ups he gets further and further from being Harper's replacement.

[punked]

This is only a hunch and maybe not likely but Is it possible Harper is letting McKay dig is own grave? I would bet Harper doesn't want Peter as leader and as long as he has these high profile screw ups he gets further and further from being Harper's replacement.

That sounds like the Harper I know.

[Shakeyhands]

I doubt Harper will turf McKay. McKay's wife is a well regarded Iranian born human rights activist. To dump McKay would be to open a floodgate of racism accusations against the Conservatives.

A little something extra in the tea this afternoon???????? Pot scones??????

[Argus]

McKay is to Harper what Clark was to Mulroney. He kind of has to keep him around for the sake of party unity. But Mulroney was able to find something Clark was reasonable competent at, and Harper has yet to find that niche for McKay. But bringing the mandarins at DND into line, both civilian and military, requires a strong hand. It requires someone smart who's capable of being a nasty SOB, and I can't think of anyone better for it than Baird. I agree Baird is doing nicely at Foreign Affairs, but it's not exactly a trying post given the general lack of interest most Canadians have for what's going on out there. Baird knows he's Harper's go-to guy and that DND has been causing them a lot of grief over the past year. So I doubt he'd see it as a demotion.

[capricorn]

A little something extra in the tea this afternoon???????? Pot scones??????

[cybercoma]

McKay is to Harper what Clark was to Mulroney. He kind of has to keep him around for the sake of party unity. But Mulroney was able to find something Clark was reasonable competent at, and Harper has yet to find that niche for McKay. But bringing the mandarins at DND into line, both civilian and military, requires a strong hand. It requires someone smart who's capable of being a nasty SOB, and I can't think of anyone better for it than Baird. I agree Baird is doing nicely at Foreign Affairs, but it's not exactly a trying post given the general lack of interest most Canadians have for what's going on out there. Baird knows he's Harper's go-to guy and that DND has been causing them a lot of grief over the past year. So I doubt he'd see it as a demotion.

I think a simple switch between Baird and MacKay would be ideal for the CPC. MacKay would probably make a pretty good Min. of FA.

[Wild Bill]

Maybe this statement is true but to suffer fools one of the biggest part of the budget in this country is not only bad governance but dangerous. I wouldn't think any debt should be worth the mistakes that have been made at DND over the last few years. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Well, I've no doubt Harper is keeping a close watch on him. Also, trading McKay for Baird would only leave Baird's old role vulnerable to McKay's incompetence, possibly even more damaging to the country.

What's more, they are all politicians after all and my experience once again tells me that politicians don't worry so much about the job being done right and proper for the country as how they themselves APPEAR to the rest of the country! The ship might sink but as long as they looked like good officers they don't really care!

Remember, I lived through Bob Rae's term here in Ontario and now see pictures on the news of $180 million dollar power plant fiascos all for political advantage during an election. I drive the Red Hill Creek Expressway here in Hamilton quite often, the one that ole Bob screwed up after over 30 years of effort by so many here to get the damn thing accomplished, in a useful way. My sense of outrage has been blunted over the years. Bang your head against the wall long enough and you can't help but become a bit numb...

Edited July 18, 2012 by Wild Bill