9/11 accused don't want hearings during Ramadan

[DogOnPorch]

Just as soon as Catholics take to the streets to denounce priest sexual predators as criminals.

Right?

Catholics regularly riot in the streets?

[DogOnPorch]

Or perhaps they'll demand that they not be incarcerated during Ramadan - and there will be those who will say it's in violation of their rights to do so.

If they are true Muslims, they listen only to God's Law, anyways.

[Guest Peeves]

They don't have court dates from Good Friday through Easter Monday that's for sure. They also don't have court dates through Christmas either.

Please elaborate on your position.

A) Are these admitted terrorists, Muslims, according to you? Yes or no.

B..) Should the courts recognize their request for no consideration of charges through all or any part of 1)Ramadan.

2) Any other Islamic holy day? Yeh or nay.

C)Would/should those (Muslims) that are categorically denying these terrorists (Admitted) are Muslim be insulted by the courts recognizing that in fact they are in granting religious concession?

Or

Are they not Muslims and deserving of no concessions as apparently the Muslim community maintains.

Try slipping over,under or around, but I really really, cross my heart and spit, want you to simply answer these questions without bringing in a few red herrings.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Peeves

[Guest Peeves]

They don't have court dates from Good Friday through Easter Monday that's for sure. They also don't have court dates through Christmas either.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the request by the (admitted) terrorists.

That's as on point as would be a suggestion they be tried by Sharia law since they are claiming to be doing what their holy book decrees. Stop tap dancing and deal with the issue.

[cybercoma]

Reasonable accommodations should be made to allow accused parties in court cases to observe their religious holidays and traditions, as a matter of protection under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. (My personal opinion, on the other hand, is that there should be absolutely no religious accommodations whatsoever, including Christians.) Delaying a trial for an entire month is not a reasonable request. Having a few days for the holiest period is reasonable. I'm not going to get into an argument about whether or not they are "real" Muslims. That's not for anyone to determine. How do you determine the sincerity of someone's beliefs anyway? Just because terrorist acts are against their faith according to some they cannot be kicked out of their religion. Hell, if not following the letter of your faith was enough to have you removed, then there would be no Catholics or Christians left whatsoever. All I'm saying is that reasonable accommodations should be made, especially considering we still believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty. That means someone at trial is innocent until the courts prove their guilt.

Edited July 13, 2012 by cybercoma

[-TSS-]

That's a good thought, actually. Since it's been made clear by mainstream Muslims that the terrorists are not following Muslim law, respect for their religious beliefs should not be a requirement to Muslims.

I must have missed a news-story.

[Guest American Woman]

I must have missed a news-story.

Evidently you've missed several ....

[-TSS-]

Evidently you've missed several ....

It's all pretence anyway. Lying to infidels is not a sin in the muslim theology.

[Guest Peeves]

Reasonable accommodations should be made to allow accused parties in court cases to observe their religious holidays and traditions, as a matter of protection under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Agreed. Now what we need is a definition of 'reasonable."

(My personal opinion, on the other hand, is that there should be absolutely no religious accommodations whatsoever, including Christians.) Delaying a trial for an entire month is not a reasonable request. Having a few days for the holiest period is reasonable.

Certainly,

In the Quran

Chapter 2, Revelation 185 of the Quran states:

The month of Ramadan is that in which was revealed the Quran; a guidance for mankind, and clear proofs of the guidance, and the criterion (of right and wrong)

So what is the holiest period? A day? A week? An hour? Since it is a time of reflecting on right and wrong, I suggest it be from 9 a.m. to 11 a.m. on the first day of introspection. They should of course fast, and then be served perhaps, deviled ham on rye.

At the same time apologies should be sent to all Muslim communities for the recognition that as 'real' confessed Muslim terrorists, their holy day will be respected. That should go over big.

I'm not going to get into an argument about whether or not they are "real" Muslims. That's not for anyone to determine.

I sincerely take umbrage with that position. The confessed Muslim terrorists in asking for accommodation during Ramadan, are in fact stipulating that they are indeed confessed terrorist Muslims. There seems to be no doubt that they expect their reward in paradise when rewarded for Islamic jihad with all the trimmings that follow martyrdom from Allah. So let's reinforce that they are indeed Muslims by granting the accommodations they ask for as confessed terrorist jihadist martyred Muslims, regardless the offense that causes the Muslim community. Agreed?

How do you determine the sincerity of someone's beliefs anyway?

Why do we need to? They are appealing to the court as Muslims. They are themselves claiming to be Muslims. Given that, they should be accommodated as confessed terrorist murdering (of innocents)Islamist Muslims, just as would be fanatic Baha'i or violent 7th day adventists, or anarchist Scientologysts or rioting Taoists.

Just because terrorist acts are against their faith according to some they cannot be kicked out of their religion.

There ya go.

Hell, if not following the letter of your faith was enough to have you removed, then there would be no Catholics or Christians left whatsoever.

All I'm saying is that reasonable accommodations should be made, especially considering we still believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty. That means someone at trial is innocent until the courts prove their guilt. And certainly so after there are bragggggging claims of doing the deed(s. I'm with you all the way. Give them a break and screw what the 'real Muslims' think, 'cause there's no definitive Muslim, or consensus of interpretation or meaning of the Koran or the Sura.

The religion of peace..AKA.

The stuff that dreams are made of.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Peeves

[Guest Peeves]

It's all pretence anyway. Lying to infidels is not a sin in the muslim theology.

It would be to a moral Muslim though.

[Guest American Woman]

It would be to a moral Muslim though.

Of course it would - I couldn't even figure out where TSS's comment was coming from; and as I pointed out previously, I haven't heard any outrage from the Muslim world at large over the hearing dates (which once again, were NOT objected to at the time they were set*) being held during Ramadan.

*One has to wonder why there was no objection when the dates were first set.

[Guest Peeves]

Of course it would - I couldn't even figure out where TSS's comment was coming from; and as I pointed out previously, I haven't heard any outrage from the Muslim world at large over the hearing dates (which once again, were NOT objected to at the time they were set*) being held during Ramadan.

*One has to wonder why there was no objection when the dates were first set.

The simple answer. Lawyers.

The more complex answer, more lawyers.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Peeves

[gunrutz]

When the world gets together and decides to share the same values these problems will disappear...until then they can cry all they want, as i said before the vast majority of us don't decide to not work on Sunday for religious reasons, it is our custom to have Sunday off, at least for some.

[Guest Peeves]

When the world gets together and decides to share the same values these problems will disappear...until then they can cry all they want, as i said before the vast majority of us don't decide to not work on Sunday for religious reasons, it is our custom to have Sunday off, at least for some.

Uh...Huh?

[cybercoma]

it is our custom to have Sunday off...

...for religious observance. Our custom is based on Christianity. If we're a nation that still believes in equality for all religious beliefs, then reasonable accommodation should be made to ensure that people of other religions have equal access to their holidays as Christians do. Edited July 16, 2012 by cybercoma

[Guest Peeves]

...for religious observance. Our custom is based on Christianity. If we're a nation that still believes in equality for all religious beliefs, then reasonable accommodation should be made to ensure that people of other religions have equal access to their holidays as Christians do.

"that people of other religions have equal access to their holidays as Christians do."

Why?

Our (statuary) holidays are legislated. Religion (contemporary) has less and less meaning in celebrating Easter-Christmas.

The 'day' is simply a holiday, not a holy day. Should our WESTERN country shut down for observance of Hanukkah, Ramadan, the dozens of other holy days of every religious faction in the country. Nonsense.

What is a Canadian Statutory Holiday?

A national statutory holiday in Canada is basically a "paid-day-off". There are several holidays every year at the national level - these holidays are observed everywhere in Canada.

In addition to these days there are other stat holidays and civic holidays on the provincial and territorial and municipal levels. If you need any ideas for a long weekend take a look at our holiday to-do list.

Valentine's Day, Mother's Day, St. Patrick's Day, Father's Day and Halloween are not official holidays but are celebrated nationwide, however, no paid vacation is given for these days. Visit our Canadian holiday forum to read and post messages related to Canadian statutory holidays.

Even though Halloween is not a statutory holiday you still want to be prepared. Make sure you have the best halloween costumes for kids so they can trick or treat in style.

On unofficial holidays - especially on Boxing Day and Remembrance day - most businesses are closed with the exception of select retail stores.

[Peter F]

Well, Islam IS the Religion of Peace. So, Muslims should be taking to the streets at any moment in support of treating these thugs as criminals rather than dirtying the image of Islam.

Right?

nobody marching about this terrorist either

[cybercoma]

Our (statuary) holidays are legislated. Religion (contemporary) has less and less meaning in celebrating Easter-Christmas.

So what? The fact is that our holidays are based on the Christian calendar; therefore, Christians get their holiest days legislated off.

The 'day' is simply a holiday, not a holy day.

Cute. But Christmas and Easter, for example, are holy days for Christians.

Should our WESTERN country shut down for observance of Hanukkah, Ramadan, the dozens of other holy days of every religious faction in the country.

No. Nor did I suggest that. If the government needs to show equality between religions, then reasonable accommodations should be made in this case so that these Muslims can observe their holiest holiday. Christians are able to observe their holiest holidays during a trial because the courts do not open, as legislated by law. I didn't once suggest that we need to legislate all religious holidays in the entire world off. All I've said is that reasonable accommodations should be made to allow all religions to observe their holidays. It's not every Muslim in the country that's in court on those days. However, Muslims that are in court on those days and wish to have them off for religious observance ought to be afforded that opportunity without penalty.

Again, my personal opinion is that we should have no holidays. Religious observance should not be legislated.

What is a Canadian Statutory Holiday?

A national statutory holiday in Canada is basically a "paid-day-off". There are several holidays every year at the national level - these holidays are observed everywhere in Canada.

Yeah? And?

In addition to these days there are other stat holidays and civic holidays on the provincial and territorial and municipal levels. If you need any ideas for a long weekend take a look at our holiday to-do list.

Valentine's Day, Mother's Day, St. Patrick's Day, Father's Day and Halloween are not official holidays but are celebrated nationwide, however, no paid vacation is given for these days. Visit our Canadian holiday forum to read and post messages related to Canadian statutory holidays.

Even though Halloween is not a statutory holiday you still want to be prepared. Make sure you have the best halloween costumes for kids so they can trick or treat in style.

On unofficial holidays - especially on Boxing Day and Remembrance day - most businesses are closed with the exception of select retail stores.

Zzzz...

This is all quite beside the point.

[Guest American Woman]

nobody marching about this terrorist either

I'm confused as to who would be marching about them - who are they supposedly aligned with?

[Guest Peeves]

I'm confused as to who would be marching about them - who are they supposedly aligned with?

Obviously Peter thinks 'somebody' should be upset with a bomb maker & son to the extent that they demonstrate. So I did. I went out in the yard and yelled, "I'm mad as hell & I'm not going to take it anymore."

A dog barked so I must have made my point.

I speculate they may be aligned with Theodore John "Ted" Kaczynski also known as the "Unabomber, but I can't prove it. Awaiting the usual manifesto.

It's far too hot to march though.

[TheNewTeddy]

There are only two conclusions to draw.

1 - These people (IE Terrorists) followed Islamic law. If true, then those Muslims NOT killing innocent people are not following the will of Allah. They are therefore not "real" Muslims, and thus, since all "real" Muslims are at war with us, we are defaulted to being at war with them, and should immediately fire nukes at Mecca.

This option is silly at best. Far more logical of an argument:

2 - Islam teaches peace not violence. Thus the Terrorists are not true Muslims and as non-Muslims have no inherent right to celebrate Islamic holidays.

[cybercoma]

So the only two choices are nuke Mecca or violent religious equality rights?

You know all religions recognize that humans are flawed and "sin." Catholicism even built in a mechanism to apologize to God. When a Christian sins, he/she is still a Christian.

Edited July 19, 2012 by cybercoma

[DogOnPorch]

nobody marching about this terrorist either

Do you expect folks to riot over this guy?

[Canuckistani]

There are only two conclusions to draw.

1 - These people (IE Terrorists) followed Islamic law. If true, then those Muslims NOT killing innocent people are not following the will of Allah. They are therefore not "real" Muslims, and thus, since all "real" Muslims are at war with us, we are defaulted to being at war with them, and should immediately fire nukes at Mecca.

This option is silly at best. Far more logical of an argument:

2 - Islam teaches peace not violence. Thus the Terrorists are not true Muslims and as non-Muslims have no inherent right to celebrate Islamic holidays.

Jesus said "turn the other cheek." Do all the people who call themselves Christians but don't turn the other cheek still get to celebrate Christmas?

[Guest American Woman]

Jesus said "turn the other cheek." Do all the people who call themselves Christians but don't turn the other cheek still get to celebrate Christmas?

I doubt if anyone goes out of their way to make it possible for them to celebrate. You think there are Christians who don't work on Christmas? No one said the terrorists on trial couldn't participate in Ramadan. But yeah. Not turning the other cheek is comparable to premeditated murder in the name of Allah.