The NDP Fight Back with Their Own Ads

[Shady]

He also blew threw that surplus well before that too. Slashing the GST also helped ensure that all these cutbacks would be necessary now.

Complete nonsense. The federal government should only employ the number of people that it takes to do the job. Not any more or any less. And the global recession dwarfs any small reduction in the GST.

[Shady]

That is all well and good but Conservatives rewriting history about the 2008 slump their guy says would never happen even when we were in the middle of it is super rich.

More nonsense. You expect the PM to know the extent of the financial breakdown in America when American politicians didn't even know until the middle of September of 08, when Obama and McCain suspended their campaigns. Just more Harper DS.

[cybercoma]

In the last election, Conservative attack ads were fact-based

While the NDP was creating ads attacking Ignatieff on his attendance record in the house (a fact), the Conservatives were running ads fear mongering about Ignatieff's "secret agenda": He didn't come back for you, Canada! (an opinion) Do you not see how blindly partisan you're being?

[cybercoma]

Complete nonsense. The federal government should only employ the number of people that it takes to do the job. Not any more or any less. And the global recession dwarfs any small reduction in the GST.

At the end of 2008 Conservatives were saying that there was no recession. Yet, they had blown through the surplus and were running a massive deficit. Call other people's posts "complete nonsense" all you want, but you're dismissing the words of the Conservatives themselves and completely ignoring the timeline of events. Moreover, economists all over the country have said that the reduction in the GST was a terrible move that further undermined the federal government's fiscal capacity on top of reduced consumption in the face of the recession that they were in denial about.

[Shady]

At the end of 2008 Conservatives were saying that there was no recession.

Nonsense.

Yet, they had blown through the surplus and were running a massive deficit.

More nonsense.

Moreover, economists all over the country have said that the reduction in the GST was a terrible move

Yes, and there were many economists that weren't saying that. See, economists are like columnists, many people with many different opinions.

[cybercoma]

Shady, do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion? Simply replying "nonsense" to everything people say without actually contributing to the discussion is some of the laziest trolling I've ever seen.

[punked]

Shady, do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion? Simply replying "nonsense" to everything people say without actually contributing to the discussion is some of the laziest trolling I've ever seen.

This is pure nonsense. I think you must have "Shady derangement syndrome"

[Newfoundlander]

Complete nonsense. The federal government should only employ the number of people that it takes to do the job. Not any more or any less. And the global recession dwarfs any small reduction in the GST.

Why didn't they care about how many people it takes to do the job till now? They've been in ocffice since 2006 and instead of shrinking the public service they kept expanding it. 2006 and 2007 would have been great years to to trim the public service because we had a booming economy with a private sector that could have employeed people who lost their jobs. The job market is not that great now and Harper is forced to lay off people to get the budget balanced.

[kraychik]

(emphasis mine)

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1004293/canadians-among-most-optimistic-in-the-world-about-economy-but-don-t-like-austerity-direction-global-survey

The majority of Canadians have an upbeat feeling about the state of our economy. The last thing they want is the NDP to upset the apple cart. Yes, there are things the Conservatives did that merit criticism but most Canadians don't appear as ready as the NDP to blacken their entire economic record.

I hope the socialists like cybercoma and TheNewTeddy don't read this post of yours and Keepitsimple, god forbid either of them have a heart attack or stroke and place a further drain on Canada's healthcare system.

[g_bambino]

At the end of 2008 Conservatives were saying that there was no recession.

They were? I don't recall that at all.

Yet, they had blown through the surplus and were running a massive deficit.

And they were in a minority position at the time, wherein the Opposition had a lot of influence over what passed through the House of Commons.

[Canuckistani]

They were? I don't recall that at all.

Stephen Harper, September 2008. “My own belief is if we were going to have some kind of big crash or recession, we probably would have had it by now.”

Stephen Harper, October 2008. “We’ll never go back into deficit.”

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/01/13/the-economist/

[Vendetta]

They were? I don't recall that at all.

And they were in a minority position at the time, wherein the Opposition had a lot of influence over what passed through the House of Commons.

Of course they were. Go back and watch the election debate from that year. Layton totally called Harper out on it and Harper denied that Canada would be affected by any economic downturn. They presented a budget that did not address the recession at all and were forced to come back with a better budget or lose the confidence of the house. Stop trying to rewrite history. Harper is no economic whiz.

[cybercoma]

I hope the socialists like cybercoma and TheNewTeddy don't read this post of yours and Keepitsimple, god forbid either of them have a heart attack or stroke and place a further drain on Canada's healthcare system.

Hook.

[cybercoma]

And they were in a minority position at the time, wherein the Opposition had a lot of influence over what passed through the House of Commons.

I can assure you that it wasn't the opposition that suggested to them that they undermine the government's fiscal capacity by reducing the GST at a time when consumption was dropping so they were already losing revenue from that source.

[cybercoma]

Of course they were. Go back and watch the election debate from that year. Layton totally called Harper out on it and Harper denied that Canada would be affected by any economic downturn. They presented a budget that did not address the recession at all and were forced to come back with a better budget or lose the confidence of the house. Stop trying to rewrite history. Harper is no economic whiz.

You can thank the NDP for our stable economic position relative to other countries. That doesn't stop Harper from taking credit for it though.

[g_bambino]

I can assure you that it wasn't the opposition that suggested to them that they undermine the government's fiscal capacity by reducing the GST at a time when consumption was dropping so they were already losing revenue from that source.

No, but lowering the GST was a campaign promise. Also, the influence of the Opposition on government spending at the time cannot be ignored.

[ed.: c/e]

Edited July 12, 2012 by g_bambino

[g_bambino]

Harper denied that Canada would be affected by any economic downturn.

"Canada will not be affected by any economic downturn" and "there is no recession" are two different statements. I seem to remember an acknowledgement by the government that the world economy was in a precarious position, but Canada was not; i.e. there may be recession out there, but not in here.

Honestly, though, I don't know everything Harper and every other minister said about the subject and it isn't really central to my point, anyway.

[g_bambino]

You can thank the NDP for our stable economic position relative to other countries.

How do you figure that? The NDP has never been in government. It was the Liberals that eliminated the deficit and kept the banking system in this country regulated.

[Canuckistani]

"Canada will not be affected by any economic downturn" and "there is no recession" are two different statements. I seem to remember an acknowledgement by the government that the world economy was in a precarious position, but Canada was not; i.e. there may be recession out there, but not in here.

Honestly, though, I don't know everything Harper and every other minister said about the subject and it isn't really central to my point, anyway.

See the quotes I supplied above. What is your point then? Canada entered recession in November. Harper couldn't foresee this in October?

Edited July 12, 2012 by Canuckistani

[cybercoma]

No, but lowering the GST was a campaign promise. Also, the influence of the Opposition on government spending at the time cannot be ignored.

[ed.: c/e]

I'm not ignoring it.

Think of this, it's amazing how the government can come up with millions out of nowhere for pet projects (ie, $28 million to re-enact the War of 1812), but when there's an actual economic crisis there just wasn't any money for it and they had to run headlong into debt to cover it. The CPC claim they're elite fiscal managers. Manage the money you have. They're not doing this. Instead, they're cutting taxes as they continue to spend.

This, in my opinion, is way more threatening than anything the NDP would do. You know the NDP would raise taxes in certain areas. This isn't some "secret agenda". They would do so to support the social services that keep the economy afloat and vulnerable Canadians protected. This is good fiscal management. Slashing taxes, then dumping millions into gazebos, toilets, war re-enactments, and photo ops is beyond ridiculous, it's reprehensible and irresponsible. Moreover, it completely contradicts their "elite fiscal management" claim.

Edited July 12, 2012 by cybercoma

[g_bambino]

Think of this, it's amazing how the government can come up with millions out of nowhere for pet projects (ie, $28 million to re-enact the War of 1812), but when there's an actual economic crisis there just wasn't any money for it and they had to run headlong into debt to cover it.

$28 million is small time within the scope of the entire federal budget. That said, the government has made various individual cuts of about the same amount and cited the economic downturn or fiscal prudency as the reason (though it sometimes maybe is (trimming needlessly bloated bureaucracy) and sometimes maybe not (closing research facilities)).

[The NDP] would do so to support the social services that keep the economy afloat and vulnerable Canadians protected. This is good fiscal management. Slashing taxes, then dumping millions into gazebos, toilets, war re-enactments, and photo ops is beyond ridiculous, it's reprehensible and irresponsible.

It's obviously possible to cut taxes and still spend. The question is: how is the money spent? Those things you cite above (except the War of 1812 related items (didn't you say in another thread Canadians need to know more about their history?)) were not good examples of money well spent. But, that's an extremely selective, one sided, and pretty tiny list of them, and all are instances of the use of relatively small amounts drawn from moneys allocated to departments by the federal budget, as opposed to broad financial plans and expenditures set out in the federal budget itself, which cannot pass through a minority parliament without the Opposition's approval. So, what you point to isn't enough to support a judgment of the government as entirely fiscally irresponsible. All governments have examples of idiotic expenses; I don't see any evidence that an NDP cabinet would be immune, especially to the photo-ops. Nor do I believe the NDP wouldn't spend money on less pragmatic matters its members would see as important; instead of commemorating the bicentenary of the War of 1812, it would be the 50th anniversary of the establishment of Medicare in 2016, or something like that.

[ed.: c/e, +]

Edited July 12, 2012 by g_bambino

[scribblet]

IMO, the NDP fibbed.

And then some they can no longer say they are taking the high road or above political 'spin' (spin is mild actually).

They don't have the money to buy time for the ad so rely on emails and free media publicity. Don't think anyone is going to buy into that 'sweat' either

[scribblet]

How do you figure that? The NDP has never been in government. It was the Liberals that eliminated the deficit and kept the banking system in this country regulated.

Wondering about that one too, the NDP had nothing to do with it. I agree about the Liberals but Martin eliminated the deficit by radically reducing transfer payments for health and education, would you like Harper to do that.

Flaherty has also tightened up banking regulations.

[August1991]

Think of this, it's amazing how the government can come up with millions out of nowhere for pet projects (ie, $28 million to re-enact the War of 1812)...

And this is your criticsm of Harper?

It's obviously possible to cut taxes and still spend. The question is: how is the money spent? Those things you cite above (except the War of 1812 related items (didn't you say in another thread Canadians need to know more about their history?))...

And this is your criticsm of Harper?

If the NDP wants to "get" Harper, it must choose another route. It must win votes.

IOW, if the NDP and the federal Liberals divide the vote, whatever the NDP does, Harper wins.

---

Irony. I have always loved the Leftist term solidaire. Leftists always argue, and divide into groupuscles. Yet they want solidarity.

Leftists want social justice, they want a State that guarantees it, and then they argue about what "social" justice means.

The phrase Québec solidaire is pure irony, and yet Françoise David and Amir Khadir don't get the joke.

Edited July 12, 2012 by August1991

[g_bambino]

And this is your criticsm of Harper?

Er... No.