Assange not so big on justice when he's the object

[Guest Derek L]

let me bother... to call your BS - I have most definitely not spoken of the innocence... or guilt... of Assange in regards to the Swedish investigation. What I most certainly have beaten on is the matter of the questioning of Assange. Quit making shyte up, hey?

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=21068&st=120

he has repeatedly stated he is innocent in regards the Swedish questioning matter...

[Guest Derek L]

hey now... how is it that when you're pointedly challenged to substantiate your puffery, your absolute certainty isn't so... absolutely certain anymore?

care to offer up just how one should interpret your claims as factual... or not?

Define what it is you feel I'm claiming......

[waldo]

.........You on the other hand claimed Mr Assange’s innocence in relation to the Swedish “problem” as fact…….I don’t suppose you could provide……..Ahhh I won’t bother.

let me bother... to call your BS - I have most definitely not spoken of the innocence... or guilt... of Assange in regards to the Swedish investigation. What I most certainly have beaten on is the matter of the questioning of Assange. Quit making shyte up, hey?

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=21068&st=120

he has repeatedly stated he is innocent in regards the Swedish questioning matter... the matter you incorrectly designate as, "the charges against him" - again, there are no charges against Assange.

nice weasel move! I've colour bold-highlighted/enhanced your lie: I did not claim Assange's innocence... as an opinion... or as the matter of fact you claim. I wrote that "(Assange) he has repeatedly stated he is innocent in regards the Swedish questioning matter".

please correct your lie/retract your claim.

[Guest Derek L]

nice weasel move! I've colour bold-highlighted/enhanced your lie: I did not claim Assange's innocence... as an opinion... or as the matter of fact you claim. I wrote that "(Assange) he has repeatedly stated he is innocent in regards the Swedish questioning matter".

please correct your lie/retract your claim.

Are these not your words Waldo:

let me bother... to call your BS - I have most definitely not spoken of the innocence... or guilt... of Assange in regards to the Swedish investigation. What I most certainly have beaten on is the matter of the questioning of Assange. Quit making shyte up, hey?

he has repeatedly stated he is innocent in regards the Swedish questioning matter...

Nothing to be retracted here

[waldo]

And there’s nothing proving that that is not the case here, as his "fears" are legally unfounded.

citation request

(and don't bother pulling your favoured, "so you're saying" BS... step up and substantiate your absolute certainty - sure you can)

I never claimed it as fact.........

hey now... how is it that when you're pointedly challenged to substantiate your puffery, your absolute certainty isn't so... absolutely certain anymore?

care to offer up just how one should interpret your claims as factual... or not?

Define what it is you feel I'm claiming......

'Derek L' weasel move part deux: perhaps you should ask yourself... you know, the thing you, "never claimed as a fact"! You need to ask yourself to define what you were claiming... when you, "never claimed it as a fact".

[Guest Derek L]

hey now... how is it that when you're pointedly challenged to substantiate your puffery, your absolute certainty isn't so... absolutely certain anymore?

care to offer up just how one should interpret your claims as factual... or not?

'Derek L' weasel move part deux: perhaps you should ask yourself... you know, the thing you, "never claimed as a fact"! You need to ask yourself to define what you were claiming... when you, "never claimed it as a fact".

Again:

let me bother... to call your BS - I have most definitely not spoken of the innocence... or guilt... of Assange in regards to the Swedish investigation. What I most certainly have beaten on is the matter of the questioning of Assange. Quit making shyte up, hey?

he has repeatedly stated he is innocent in regards the Swedish questioning matter...

Pure Gold

[waldo]

Nothing to be retracted here

excellent! We see the full weight of your intellectual dishonesty... in living waldo bold-highlighted, colour/size enhanced font. You choose to cover your lie (within your initial statement and linked/referenced quote)... by weasel wording my follow-up statement calling out your lie!

and... you double down. You have the audacity to distract the calling out of your 'Derek L' weasel move part deux... by re-referencing your initial lie.

[Guest Derek L]

excellent! We see the full weight of your intellectual dishonesty... in living waldo bold-highlighted, colour/size enhanced font. You choose to cover your lie (within your initial statement and linked/referenced quote)... by weasel wording my follow-up statement calling out your lie!

and... you double down. You have the audacity to distract the calling out of your 'Derek L' weasel move part deux... by re-referencing your initial lie.

And for posterity’s sake:

let me bother... to call your BS - I have most definitely not spoken of the innocence... or guilt... of Assange in regards to the Swedish investigation. What I most certainly have beaten on is the matter of the questioning of Assange. Quit making shyte up, hey?

he has repeatedly stated he is innocent in regards the Swedish questioning matter...

To paraphrase John Kerry:

"I actually did speak to Assange's innocence, before I didn't."

I’ll give you a chance to move on well clarifying your above muddled statements:

Do you, esteemed member “Waldo”, feel (A personal observation) Julian Assange is innocent of all wrong doing in the before mentioned Swedish sexual assault?

[waldo]

excellent! We see the full weight of your intellectual dishonesty... in living waldo bold-highlighted, colour/size enhanced font. You choose to cover your lie (within your initial statement and linked/referenced quote)... by weasel wording my follow-up statement calling out your lie!

and... you double down. You have the audacity to distract the calling out of your 'Derek L' weasel move part deux... by re-referencing your initial lie.

let's see just how far you're prepared to take your intellectual dishonesty... your lies... and your weasel moves. Quote where I, as you stated, "claimed Mr. Assange's innocence in relation to the Swedish "problem" as fact"

.........You on the other hand claimed Mr Assange’s innocence in relation to the Swedish “problem” as fact……

[waldo]

'Derek L' weasel move part deux: perhaps you should ask yourself... you know, the thing you, "never claimed as a fact"! You need to ask yourself to define what you were claiming... when you, "never claimed it as a fact".

haven't you asked yourself by now? Still waiting...

[Argus]

Sure they do because the proposition was put forth in this thread that Assanged knows he wont be extradited to the US, and is simply using that as an excuse to avoid further questioning on these molestation charges.

Try to read along hey?

He's terrified of going back to Sweden in case the Americans extradite him?

So suppose the Swedes drop the case? Will he then leave the Ecuadoran embassy and go home to Australia?

Where the Americans can extradite him?

Or will he stay in the UK?

Where the Americans can extradite him?

Edited August 22, 2012 by Argus

[eyeball]

There ARE no 'ethical hackers'.

There most certainly are. What doesn't exist are virtually any ethical reasons for secrecy in the public's domain - and that domain as you should well know occupy's a very vast expanse.

You and me, obviously, are on such different pages as to be in separate libraries when it comes to the latitude we give our civil servants and politicians.

As I see it, the single commonest thing making so much of the world so fubar is the depraved secrecy that human governance is steeped in.

[wyly]

after looking into the assange "rape" charges I can't see that there is very much in it...contradicting statements from plaintiffs, consensual sex, torn condom, morning sex...really if assange is sexual criminal most of the men in canada would be sexual criminals as well...first the prosecution says there is nothing to the complaints and then does an about face and wants extradition? is this really about sex or about wikileaks...

[dre]

He's terrified of going back to Sweden in case the Americans extradite him?

So suppose the Swedes drop the case? Will he then leave the Ecuadoran embassy and go home to Australia?

Where the Americans can extradite him?

Or will he stay in the UK?

Where the Americans can extradite him?

My guess is he will go to the country whos laws make extradition the least likely OR... he will go to a country where he has damaging documents about the government so that they dont dare extradite him.

But I dont really care what happens to the guy as long as leak media continues to grow.

[dre]

after looking into the assange "rape" charges I can't see that there is very much in it...contradicting statements from plaintiffs, consensual sex, torn condom, morning sex...really if assange is sexual criminal most of the men in canada would be sexual criminals as well...first the prosecution says there is nothing to the complaints and then does an about face and wants extradition? is this really about sex or about wikileaks...

Thats what bugs me about people throwing the term rape around. Only one of the two women even made that allegation, and in both cases sex was consensual. What happened may meet the legal definition of rape, but people are describing Assange the same way they would a man that cornered a women in a dark alley, beat the shit out her, and forcefully sodomized her.

[Guest American Woman]

after looking into the assange "rape" charges I can't see that there is very much in it...contradicting statements from plaintiffs, consensual sex, torn condom, morning sex...really if assange is sexual criminal most of the men in canada would be sexual criminals as well...first the prosecution says there is nothing to the complaints and then does an about face and wants extradition? is this really about sex or about wikileaks...

Perhaps "most of the men in Canada" would not appreciate your claim that they would act as Assange has been accused of.

If a condom tears and the woman tells the man to stop because she doesn't want to risk pregnancy and he continues anyway, you think that is conduct "most of the men in Canada" would find ok? So what if the woman gets pregnant, eh? She initially consented, so if the condom breaks, she has to simply risk pregnancy and continue. Does that sound right to you?

As for the "morning sex," perhaps men should be aware that just because a woman invites them to their place and consents to sex the night before, that doesn't mean she's agreeing to let him help himself to more without her consent, as she's asleep. Pretty hard to give consent when one is asleep.

Perhaps in the light of day, the woman has regrets about her choices the night before and has no desire to have more sex with the man. Perhaps in the light of day she doesn't consider him as attractive as she did the night before when she was 'wearing beer goggles.' Perhaps she'd like to be conscious so she can make a decision about things such as condoms. Perhaps she'd like to be in on the decision of whether or not to engage in more sex. Does that sound reasonable to you?

In Sweden there are three degrees of rape, and having sex with a sleeping or unconscious person amounts to non-consensual sex, which brings about a charge of "minor rape;" the British courts have upheld the definition, saying it would also constitute rape in Britian.

Edited August 22, 2012 by American Woman

[Argus]

after looking into the assange "rape" charges I can't see that there is very much in it...

Detective Wyly has spoken. Move along, people! There's no case here!

[Argus]

My guess is he will go to the country whos laws make extradition the least likely OR... he will go to a country where he has damaging documents about the government so that they dont dare extradite him.

But I dont really care what happens to the guy as long as leak media continues to grow.

You appreciate the viruses and hacks and trojans spreading all over the internet by every acned loserboy who can't get a job? Why? Are you that much of a voyeur?

[Guest American Woman]

Detective Wyly has spoken. Move along, people! There's no case here!

I think we should approach all allegations of all crimes this way - just have wyly "look into them." Think of the time and money that could be saved!

[eyeball]

You appreciate the viruses and hacks and trojans spreading all over the internet...?

Get a grip, that's vandalism.

Opening up official state files aka the public's domain, to the light of total public awareness is a revolutionary heroic act of empowering the governed. This is just the start of a new human movement towards a reversal of paradigms in state vs human relationships where, amongst other things, the governed will monitor their governments to an extent that would make Orwell himself blush.

[dre]

You appreciate the viruses and hacks and trojans spreading all over the internet by every acned loserboy who can't get a job? Why? Are you that much of a voyeur?

No I appreciate efforts to fight governments rampant abuse of secrecy, and efforts to promote transparency and fight censorship.

I appreciated when wikileaks helped expose the fact that Kenyan president Daniel arap Moi was stealing millions of dollars from Kenyans and moving it out of the country.

I appreciated when they published the membership list of the BNP... a British white nationalist party.

I appreciated when they published the ACMA blacklist... a list of sites banned by the Australian government which was supposed only include illegal sites, but ended up having all kinds of perfectly legal sites on it.

I appreciated it when wikileaks disclosed to the Japenese people that their government was lying to them about Nuclear radiation leaks.

I appreciated when wikileaks disclosed a spree of extrajudicial killings by the government of Columbia.

I hope wikileaks and groups like them can greatly diminish the ability of governments to operate in secret.

Edited August 23, 2012 by dre

[wyly]

Thats what bugs me about people throwing the term rape around. Only one of the two women even made that allegation, and in both cases sex was consensual. What happened may meet the legal definition of rape, but people are describing Assange the same way they would a man that cornered a women in a dark alley, beat the shit out her, and forcefully sodomized her.

reading some more reports of the plaintiff statements no one accused assange of rape, the initial encounter on which the complaint was based the woman accused assange of deliberately tearing the condom which he denied, she was so annoyed she slept with him for another week....the 2nd woman claimed she was only half awake when they had sex a 2nd time and was pissed because she didn't think he used a condom, fair enough but that's not rape either...where the conflict got heated was when the the two women found out about each other, assange is a slut, they went to the police to demand assange take a test for STD's which the police couldn't force assange to do, neither woman intended to press sexual misbehaviour charges...it was the state prosecutor who read the womens statements who proceeded with the case...

[bleeding heart]

In any event, if you so disapprove of western nations and their capitalism and 'lawlessness', perhaps Cuba is the better place for you. I'm sure you'll heartily approve of the number of laws available there. And I suspect their politics will be much more to your liking, as well.

And...."capitalism"? What the hell are you on about now?

Look, if you don't want to have a serious and honest discussion, that's obviously your choice. So why the pretence in the first place?

Edited August 23, 2012 by bleeding heart

[bleeding heart]

No I appreciate efforts to fight governments rampant abuse of secrecy, and efforts to promote transparency and fight censorship.

I appreciated when wikileaks helped expose the fact that Kenyan president Daniel arap Moi was stealing millions of dollars from Kenyans and moving it out of the country.

I appreciated when they published the membership list of the BNP... a British white nationalist party.

I appreciated when they published the ACMA blacklist... a list of sites banned by the Australian government which was supposed only include illegal sites, but ended up having all kinds of perfectly legal sites on it.

I appreciated it when wikileaks disclosed to the Japenese people that their government was lying to them about Nuclear radiation leaks.

I appreciated when wikileaks disclosed a spree of extrajudicial killings by the government of Columbia.

I hope wikileaks and groups like them can greatly diminish the ability of governments to operate in secret.

Thanks, dre.

I keep forgetting that those who most despise wikileaks have approximately zero understanding of anything related to it...except what others, who also hate it, have told them to think.

[dre]

Thanks, dre.

I keep forgetting that those who most despise wikileaks have approximately zero understanding of anything related to it...except what others, who also hate it, have told them to think.

Yeah they were fine with it until they leaked US documents. I didnt see any of these people spewing moral outrage when wikileaks hosted the CLIMATEGATE emails!

Edited August 23, 2012 by dre