Assange not so big on justice when he's the object

[waldo]

The fact that he's asking for guarantees regarding a completely different matter from what he's wanted for in Sweden is what's bull; the idea that he should have some sort of guarantee involving a completely different matter is ridiculous.

no - what's ridiculous is, 'you and your ilk'™, effectively, denying the overwhelming impact/emphasis that WikiLeaks holds in/over anything concerning Assange.

He's wanted for questioning in rape allegations, and HE'S the one going on and on about the U.S. being after him, while saying nothing about the charges against him. HE is the one making it about something else besides him. So far it seems to be working to his advantage. So keep being distracted by it. It's what he wants.

he has repeatedly stated he is innocent in regards the Swedish questioning matter... the matter you incorrectly designate as, "the charges against him" - again, there are no charges against Assange. There have been several in-depth interviews where Assange has detailed the circumstances surrounding his claimed innocence... he has repeatedly called for avenues to allow him to address the circumstances; hence, the numerous scenarios proposed by his legal team to effect questioning by Swedish authorities. Swedish authorities continue to rebuff those scenarios that would allow them to question Assange in the UK... and the latest proposal, questioning him from within the Ecuador embassy. As was mentioned previously, in relation to ongoing investigations, it is not at all unique for Swedish authorities to travel externally to countries to question individuals. For some reason, they refuse to grant this somewhat common circumstance to Assange... perhaps you could channel your fake outrage into commenting on that fact.

You would never agree with some political figure you disagree with asking for the same kind of guarantee. Again. This is about rape allegations, and he is making it about something else.

you finding shelter amongst your personalized hypothetical has no bearing. Again, you should be championing the cause for granting Swedish and U.S. guarantees against extradition... force the focus onto your said allegations. Is there a problem?

[Guest American Woman]

he has repeatedly stated he is innocent in regards the Swedish questioning matter... the matter you incorrectly designate as, "the charges against him" - onto your said allegations. Is there a problem?

Oh, well, there you go then. He has said he's innocent. No need for the police to question him. He's claimed innocence. Good God.

[Guest Derek L]

all youse guys and your wild-eye speculations!

there is enough evidence, circumstantial or not, to suggest there truly is that 'sealed U.S. indictment'... enough evidence to warrant the actions by Assange and his legal team. Sweden refuses to simply provide a guarantee that it won't, in turn, extradite Assange to the U.S.; the U.S. has not, equally, issued a diplomatic assurance that it does not intend to seek the extradition of Assange from Sweden. Issuing the guarantees would, quite obviously, put the pressure and focus back on Assange... and yet, both Sweden and the U.S. continue to rebuff the requests for these guarantees against pursuing extradition. For those with the ready-reach tinfoil hat, what does that tell ya, hey?

as for the banal, 'why not the UK directly' talking point, perhaps... perhaps... the UK, in this heightened profile case, has actually already rebuffed the U.S. and might even be respecting the principal of extended non-refoulement as reflects upon knowingly sending someone on to a country where persecution and/or death may result. Much easier to throw the focus directly on Sweden, hey?

What evidence? And do you have evidence to suggest that the UK rebuffed the United States? Maybe something from Wikileaks itself?

Persecution and Death? What, the Americans are going to lynch Assange? Drawn & Quartered? Perhaps he should submit to such a demise and be born a martyr for his heroic actions.....

And who knows, maybe spending some time in a US federal prison might afford him some more “surprise sex”, sans the condom of course

[Shady]

Oh, well, there you go then. He has said he's innocent. No need for the police to question him. He's claimed innocence. Good God.

/facepalm

I wouldn't waste your time AW. When somebody's in that deep of a sycophantic state, no amount of logic and reason will matter.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Shady

[Guest Derek L]

he has repeatedly stated he is innocent in regards the Swedish questioning matter... the matter you incorrectly designate as, "the charges against him" - again, there are no charges against Assange. There have been several in-depth interviews where Assange has detailed the circumstances surrounding his claimed innocence... he has repeatedly called for avenues to allow him to address the circumstances; hence, the numerous scenarios proposed by his legal team to effect questioning by Swedish authorities. Swedish authorities continue to rebuff those scenarios that would allow them to question Assange in the UK... and the latest proposal, questioning him from within the Ecuador embassy. As was mentioned previously, in relation to ongoing investigations, it is not at all unique for Swedish authorities to travel externally to countries to question individuals. For some reason, they refuse to grant this somewhat common circumstance to Assange... perhaps you could channel your fake outrage into commenting on that fact.

"IHE did not have (unwanted) sexual relations with thatthose womaen"

[dre]

If I was the British, I'd simply PNG the entire embassy staff, and break relations with Ecuador (not like they need to have any sort of relations with an insignificant flyspeck country like that). Then the embassy is no longer an embassy and they can simply walk in and take the idiot.

YEah... you would destroy relations between two countries over this incident. Thats why youre flipping burgers not managing national diplomatic relations.

[waldo]

Oh, well, there you go then. He has said he's innocent. No need for the police to question him. He's claimed innocence. Good God.

get a grip woman American Woman! Just how deep is your strawman well? Read my reply again... this time slowly and crank your blinders shield level down a notch or two! Yes, he has claimed innocence, several times over; he has also, equally several times over, expressed his willingness and want to comply with the request to be questioned by Swedish authorities. And, again, that's exactly why his legal team has repeatedly sought out avenues to comply with that Swedish request.

you can keep ignoring the points that I have no problem in repeating for you... or you could actually step it up and provide comment on why:

- Swedish authorities, who quite regularly travel abroad to question persons in regards to active police investigations... somehow... can't see themselves able to offer the same privilege to Assange

- Swedish authorities have denied requests to issue a guarantee that Sweden will not, in turn, extradite Assange to the U.S..

- U.S. authorities have denied requests to issue a guarantee that the U.S. will not seek Assange's extradition from Sweden.

[dre]

"IHE did not have (unwanted) sexual relations with thatthose womaen"

He isnt wanted for rape he is wanting for "questioning". And in both cases the women consented to sex, until some point during the encounter.

And he already WAS questioned.

This is a wierd case and anyone in his position would do the same thing.

They issued an arrest warrant on August 20th 2010. Assanged was questioned by police in stockholm. The next day all charges were dropped, and Swedens chief prosecutor made the following statement to the media... "I don't think there is reason to suspect that he has committed rape."

At this point he was not trying to evade any prosecution he was in fact trying to become a permanent resident. Then... the chief prosecutor is booted off the case by the Swedish government, and a new prosecutor is assigned (Marianne Ny), and the arrent warrant is opened AGAIN. Still with no formal charges against Assange.

The fact is that he voluntarily submitted himself to questioning in Stockholm, was questioned, and then the charges were dropped. He left Sweden only after his request for permanent residency was denied. The charges were dropped.

Edited August 20, 2012 by dre

[dre]

Oh, well, there you go then. He has said he's innocent. No need for the police to question him. He's claimed innocence. Good God.

Police DID question him.

[jbg]

get a grip woman American Woman! [/indent]

You are beyond chauvinistic. You are rude.

[waldo]

What evidence? And do you have evidence to suggest that the UK rebuffed the United States? Maybe something from Wikileaks itself?

nothing more than the idle speculation to your idle question... tit for tat, no?

Persecution and Death? What, the Americans are going to lynch Assange? Drawn & Quartered? Perhaps he should submit to such a demise and be born a martyr for his heroic actions.....

is espionage a capital offense in the United States... or not? You do know what possible quilt a capital offense can bring in the land of the free/home of the brave, right?

And who knows, maybe spending some time in a US federal prison might afford him some more “surprise sex”, sans the condom of course

what? A 'Derek L' chucklefest over unprotected prison sex... in any case, thanks for building upon the extradition outcome - you know, the thing you're so denying will/would ever happen!

[dre]

/facepalm

I wouldn't waste your time AW. When somebody's in that deep of a sycophantic state, no amount of logic and reason will matter.

I LOVE leak media and its hear to stay no matter what happens to Assange. But I actually think the guy is kind of creepy, and I tend to believe that at least in one of these cases (both of which started out as consensual sex) that Assange was asked to stop in the middle of the act, and did not comply. Still... anyone that actually spends the time to read the chronology of these events, and what was alleged and what happened would smell a rat.

My guess is that Mr Assange is one paranoid dude... Not suprising considering various western leaders have been calling for his assasination or execution. Nobody knows if hes innocent or what he might be guilty of, but what we DO know is that he voluntarily submitted himself to questioning by Swedish police and the charges were subsequently dropped. We also know that far from FLEAing sweden, Assange actually tried to become a permanent resident and only left the country after that request was denied.

[Guest Derek L]

He isnt wanted for rape he is wanting for "questioning". And in both cases the women consented to sex, until some point during the encounter.

And he already WAS questioned.

This is a wierd case and anyone in his position would do the same thing.

They issued an arrest warrant on August 20th 2010. Assanged was questioned by police in stockholm. The next day all charges were dropped, and Swedens chief prosecutor made the following statement to the media... "I don't think there is reason to suspect that he has committed rape."

At this point he was not trying to evade any prosecution he was in fact trying to become a permanent resident. Then... the chief prosecutor is booted off the case by the Swedish government, and a new prosecutor is assigned (Marianne Ny), and the arrent warrant is opened AGAIN. Still with no formal charges against Assange.

The fact is that he voluntarily submitted himself to questioning in Stockholm, was questioned, and then the charges were dropped.

(Swedish) Courts & Criminal investigators don’t revisit cases from time to time? Still there is no evidence that this was done at the behest of the United States, nor is there evidence that the United States requested the like, then was rebuffed by the United Kingdom.

[waldo]

You are beyond chauvinistic. You are rude.

no - the rudeness you describe was both the poster's purposeful manipulation and miscasting of my posted words... the purposeful ignoring of what I actually said and the purposeful strawman build against what I actually said. Equally, it was trumped with an exclamatory "Good God" & rolleyes emoticon tandem play. Individually... and collectively... that, was rude!

[Guest Derek L]

is espionage a capital offense in the United States... or not? You do know what possible quilt a capital offense can bring in the land of the free/home of the brave, right?

Has Mr Assange allegedly done anything different then the MSM outlets that also published the leaked diplomatic cables? Or if you prefer, why isn’t the staff of The New York Times also seeking refuge in Latin American embassies?

what? A 'Derek L' chucklefest over unprotected prison sex... in any case, thanks for building upon the extradition outcome - you know, the thing you're so denying will/would ever happen!

Clearly playing off your tin-foil assertion………..I suppose Mr Assange doesn’t live by the creed of Martyrs long since passed:

To live by the Sword, is to die be discomforted by the sword

[waldo]

Has Mr Assange allegedly done anything different then the MSM outlets that also published the leaked diplomatic cables? Or if you prefer, why isn’t the staff of The New York Times also seeking refuge in Latin American embassies?

I await your legal citation(s) advising the NYT publishing of WikiLeaks extracts was a crime... a violation of the U.S. Espionage Act.

Clearly playing off your tin-foil assertion………..I suppose Mr Assange doesn’t live by the creed of Martyrs long since passed:

To live by the Sword, is to die be discomforted by the sword

tin foil assertion??? You mean the extradition you, now repeatedly, build from with your low-brow prison sex humour? For that, you must have have your own foil wrapped rather tightly, hey?

[Guest Derek L]

I await your legal citation(s) advising the NYT publishing of WikiLeaks extracts was a crime... a violation of the U.S. Espionage Act.

I never suggested nor implied that the NY Times committed a crime, and as such, Mr Assange would fall under the same category………..That is, unless you allege Mr Assange did indeed commit a crime based on actions he did that would differentiate him from the MSM.

tin foil assertion??? You mean the extradition you, now repeatedly, build from with your low-brow prison sex humour? For that, you must have have your own foil wrapped rather tightly, hey?

As I’ve asked and you continually avoid answering, what crime did Mr Assange allegedly commit? If there’s no crime committed, why would the United States government be secretly planning to detain Mr Assange by using subterfuge surrounded by alleged Swedish sexual misconduct?

[dre]

(Swedish) Courts & Criminal investigators don’t revisit cases from time to time? Still there is no evidence that this was done at the behest of the United States, nor is there evidence that the United States requested the like, then was rebuffed by the United Kingdom.

Yeah Im not really saying that Mr Assanges paranoia is based on facts or reality, Im saying its understandable. He was questioned by police, the charges were dropped, then they expected him to return to Sweden from another country to face the same questioning again. I would have told them to go and piss up a rope too, and my guess is that you would have as well.

And of course all of this is happening against the backdrop of various western politicians openly calling for his murder, and calling for him to be hunted down like Alqeada terrorists. Its quite possible you are right, and that Sweden really just wants to question this guy about these cases... and that theres no real risk of Assange being extradited from Sweden to anywhere. Who the hell knows. In any case its prudent and rational for him to be suspicious. A lot of powerful people around the world are pissed off at this guy and feel threatened by the whole idea of leak media.

[dre]

As I’ve asked and you continually avoid answering, what crime did Mr Assange allegedly commit? If there’s no crime committed, why would the United States government be secretly planning to detain Mr Assange by using subterfuge surrounded by alleged Swedish sexual misconduct?

Who knows!!! We know that the US and other nations DO engage in rendition... not to mention torture by proxy. Folks like Khalid El-Masri have been outright kidnapped and sent to various "black sites" and "covert interoggation" centers. You and I have the luxury of GUESSING what various nations might be willing to do to "plug" wiki leaks, but Assange has every reason to be afraid whether his fears are grounded in reality or not.

Edited August 20, 2012 by dre

[waldo]

I never suggested nor implied that the NY Times committed a crime, and as such, Mr Assange would fall under the same category………..That is, unless you allege Mr Assange did indeed commit a crime based on actions he did that would differentiate him from the MSM.

what you did is naively associate an individual's actions with those of a media outlet... save yourself further embarrassment and recognize that only one of those two entities is immediately covered by U.S. First Amendment 'freedom of speech' extensions that reflect upon the release vs. publishing of WikiLeaks information. Feel free to challenge that one, hey?

As I’ve asked and you continually avoid answering, what crime did Mr Assange allegedly commit? If there’s no crime committed, why would the United States government be secretly planning to detain Mr Assange by using subterfuge surrounded by alleged Swedish sexual misconduct?

huh! You've repeatedly asked me???... In any case, are you new to this subject? Perhaps this timely gem will help enlighten your view/position, hey? --- US in pursuit of Assange, cables reveal

AUSTRALIAN diplomats have no doubt the United States is still gunning for Julian Assange, according to Foreign Affairs Department documents obtained by The Saturday Age.

The Australian embassy in Washington has been tracking a US espionage investigation targeting the WikiLeaks publisher for more than 18 months.

The declassified diplomatic cables, released under freedom of information laws, show Australia's diplomatic service takes seriously the likelihood that Assange will eventually be extradited to the US on charges arising from WikiLeaks obtaining leaked US military and diplomatic documents.

However, the Australian embassy in Washington reported in February that "the US investigation into possible criminal conduct by Mr Assange has been ongoing for more than a year".

The embassy noted media reports that a US federal grand jury had been empanelled in Alexandria, Virginia, to pursue the WikiLeaks case and that US government officials "cannot lawfully confirm to us the existence of the grand jury".

Despite this, and apparently on the basis of still classified off-the-record discussions with US officials and private legal experts, the embassy reported the existence of the grand jury as a matter of fact. It identified a wide range of criminal charges the US could bring against Assange, including espionage, conspiracy, unlawful access to classified information and computer fraud.

Australian diplomats expect that any charges against Assange would be carefully drawn in an effort to avoid conflict with the First Amendment free speech provisions of the US constitution.

The cables also show that the Australian government considers the prospect of extradition sufficiently likely that, on direction from Canberra, Mr Beazley sought high-level US advice on "the direction and likely outcome of the investigation" and "reiterated our request for early advice of any decision to indict or seek extradition of Mr Assange".

[Guest Derek L]

what you did is naively associate an individual's actions with those of a media outlet... save yourself further embarrassment and recognize that only one of those two entities is immediately covered by U.S. First Amendment 'freedom of speech' extensions that reflect upon the release vs. publishing of WikiLeaks information. Feel free to challenge that one, hey?

Mr Assange is Wikileaks and Wikileaks is Mr Assange? Obviously this is not the case, and as such, you’ll demonstrate how all members of Wikileaks are running to Latin American embassies I should think……Perhaps your hero isn’t that heroic after all……….And maybe Alex Jones is being monitored

huh! You've repeatedly asked me???... In any case, are you new to this subject? Perhaps this timely gem will help enlighten your view/position, hey? --- US in pursuit of Assange, cables reveal

From your link:

AUSTRALIAN diplomats have no doubt the United States is still gunning for Julian Assange, according to Foreign Affairs Department documents obtained by The Saturday Age.

This view is at odds with Foreign Minister Bob Carr's repeated dismissal of such a prospect

That’s rather compelling Waldo….Almost breathtaking.

[Guest Derek L]

Yeah Im not really saying that Mr Assanges paranoia is based on facts or reality, Im saying its understandable. He was questioned by police, the charges were dropped, then they expected him to return to Sweden from another country to face the same questioning again. I would have told them to go and piss up a rope too, and my guess is that you would have as well.

Though false charges of sexual misconduct can be damning for a man, with the same token, what else can one do then lawyer up or live out their days in a embassy closet………..I’d liken the situation to going through a red light in plain view of a patrol car…The vast majority would pull over and take the ticket, well a small minority will try to outrun the cop……….Of the two, I’m sure you and I could agree, that paying the fine is better then a protracted police chase then incarceration…….Those that wouldn’t share our views either have something to hide or have the CIA after them.

And of course all of this is happening against the backdrop of various western politicians openly calling for his murder, and calling for him to be hunted down like Alqeada terrorists. Its quite possible you are right, and that Sweden really just wants to question this guy about these cases... and that theres no real risk of Assange being extradited from Sweden to anywhere. Who the hell knows. In any case its prudent and rational for him to be suspicious. A lot of powerful people around the world are pissed off at this guy and feel threatened by the whole idea of leak media.

I don’t deny the Mr Assange is a very unpopular person in a great many circles, with that said, if such circles had a legal case against Mr Assange, he’d already be in US federal custody……..Assange is hardly OBL living in a cave or Pakistani security service safe house

[waldo]

Mr Assange is Wikileaks and Wikileaks is Mr Assange? Obviously this is not the case, and as such, you’ll demonstrate how all members of Wikileaks are running to Latin American embassies I should think……Perhaps your hero isn’t that heroic after all……….And maybe Alex Jones is being monitored

is there a translator in the house? You've outdone yourself!

That’s rather compelling Waldo….Almost breathtaking.

eventually, you'll need to make up your mind and settle in on just what your argument is! Diplomatic exchanges realized through whistle-blower actions... or through freedom of information requests... either have degrees of validity, or they don't. Your highly contradicting and hypocritical stance has you placing meaning/validity/emphasis on the WikiLeaks whistle-blower category of diplomatic exchange... but is has you following a most self-serving approach in denying the meaning/validity/emphasis on the aforementioned Australian diplomatic cables exchange realized through freedom of information means. Go figure! As an aside, your ever ready go-to play on tinfoil and Alex Jones, simply showcases your inability to actually make... and hold... an argument.

[waldo]

I don’t deny the Mr Assange is a very unpopular person in a great many circles, with that said, if such circles had a legal case against Mr Assange, he’d already be in US federal custody……..Assange is hardly OBL living in a cave or Pakistani security service safe house

how naive are you... "The Whole World is Watching"

[Guest Derek L]

is there a translator in the house? You've outdone yourself!

Does Wikileaks comprise solely of Mr Assange?

eventually, you'll need to make up your mind and settle in on just what your argument is! Diplomatic exchanges realized through whistle-blower actions... or through freedom of information requests... either have degrees of validity, or they don't. Your highly contradicting and hypocritical stance has you placing meaning/validity/emphasis on the WikiLeaks whistle-blower category of diplomatic exchange... but is has you following a most self-serving approach in denying the meaning/validity/emphasis on the aforementioned Australian diplomatic cables exchange realized through freedom of information means. Go figure! As an aside, your ever ready go-to play on tinfoil and Alex Jones, simply showcases your inability to actually make... and hold... an argument.

You’re intentionally blurring the lines, as no where did I infer the Australian article nor Mr Jones, like Mr Assange and the Wikileaks organization has broken the law………Unless that is, you care to demonstrate different? How has Mr Assange broken the (US) law? What law(s) has Mr Assange, as an individual, broken that would warrant the United States pursuing a Federal indictment against Mr Assange?

Are you hiding something Waldo? Do you know of some law Mr Assange, or Wikileaks in general has broken? Why do you keep avoiding the question? Are you going to seek refuge in the nearest Latin American embassy?

Why the aversion to the question, what did Mr Assange do that would warrant him getting the “needle”?

how naive are you... "The Whole World is Watching"

I got it, and I’ll jump on this idea quickly; a Halloween mask, not comprising latex nor rubber (mustn’t be too restrictive), adorned with the likeness of the soon to be late Mr Julian Assange

Now that will be Gold

Edited August 20, 2012 by Derek L