Strippers to be stripped of their work visas

[Anti-Am]

Where will the strippers come from? Most of them are foreigners.

I guess they will have to be college chicks from Canada.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/11/strippers-to-be-stripped-of-work-visas-kenney

OTTAWA - With the passage of its massive budget Bill C-38, the government says it will end giving work visas to foreign strippers once and for all.

In Opposition, Stephen Harper was against a Liberal program that effectively expedited work permits for foreigners intending to work in the adult entertainment industry.

"The problem is, under the current Immigration Act we don't have the legal authority to deny people visas based on the industry they're working in," Minister of Citizenship and Immigration Jason Kenney said. "Now we have the power, which we'll begin using as soon as those regulations are done this summer, to deny visas to people who we think ... might have a high chance of trafficking or exploitation."

Together with other legislation passed this year, provisions under Bill C-38 will take it one step further -- all existing temporary work visas to foreign-born strippers will be cancelled, all new applications will be denied and all "open" work visa holders will be barred from working in the adult entertainment industry.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Anti-Am

[Anti-Am]

If these people are coming into the country on legal visas how would they be victims of trafficking or exploitation?

Face it Kenney, you think strippers are immoral and that is why you are trying to effectively ban strippers.

The moral police strike again.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Anti-Am

[madmax]

If these people are coming into the country on legal visas how would they be victims of trafficking or exploitation?

Face it Kenney, you think strippers are immoral and that is why you are trying to effectively ban strippers.

The moral police strike again.

I fully and completely disagree with you.

If they were banning exotic entertainment you might have a case.

If you understood the business, the players and those being exploited, it is NOT the rose picture you present.

There are plenty of women who live in Canada and can consider exotic dancing as an occupation.

They have rights and are less likely to be exploited and can negotiate fair wages/perks.

When a FLOOD of Eastern EuroPean Dancers sweep across Canada and one knows the history of Eastern European trafficking and criminal activity, the opportunity to exploit Canadas Visa requirements and these Women are compounded by our own legal process.

Strippers are not being banned.

And there is no justification to bring in Exotic Dancers from other countries just to sit in the back of a small cubicle performing other services.

Edited June 12, 2012 by madmax

[cybercoma]

Women in Canada are just as likely to be exploited. I personally know about half a dozen women that have worked in the business and most of them were from Canada. The two that weren't were from the United States and England. Not exactly sounding like the innocent exploited victim line Kenney is towing does it? Most people don't think of these girls coming from places like the US and UK. In any case, the ones that were from Canada were by far more concerned with discretion. They wanted their identity to be hidden and only told select people about their "real" job, while telling others that they're waitresses or bartenders. This need for discretion and anonymity can be a powerful tool to be used against them if they're being exploited. However, that assumes that these club owners are just exploiting women all over the place. That's not the case. The operations that do exploit women and are involved in human trafficking are not going to be affected by this new legislation. It targets the symptom, rather than going after the problem. It's making the victim's activities illegal, rather than going after the exploiters. Once again, the Conservatives have passed legislation that punishes victims, rather than doing anything effective against the real problem.

[Signals.Cpl]

Women in Canada are just as likely to be exploited. I personally know about half a dozen women that have worked in the business and most of them were from Canada. The two that weren't were from the United States and England. Not exactly sounding like the innocent exploited victim line Kenney is towing does it? Most people don't think of these girls coming from places like the US and UK. In any case, the ones that were from Canada were by far more concerned with discretion. They wanted their identity to be hidden and only told select people about their "real" job, while telling others that they're waitresses or bartenders. This need for discretion and anonymity can be a powerful tool to be used against them if they're being exploited. However, that assumes that these club owners are just exploiting women all over the place. That's not the case. The operations that do exploit women and are involved in human trafficking are not going to be affected by this new legislation. It targets the symptom, rather than going after the problem. It's making the victim's activities illegal, rather than going after the exploiters. Once again, the Conservatives have passed legislation that punishes victims, rather than doing anything effective against the real problem.

Well, from what I'm reading the government is trying to attack the problem from one angle. If the girls are being exploited there is no need to bring girls from other countries to be exploited is there?

[cybercoma]

Well, from what I'm reading the government is trying to attack the problem from one angle. If the girls are being exploited there is no need to bring girls from other countries to be exploited is there?

There are very many girls not being exploited that legitimately come here to do this work. Kenney himself said he needed to change the law because it was not formerly legal for them to deny visas based solely on the type of job they will take. Those exploiting women from other countries are just going to lie about their work or sneak them in without going through the process of getting visas. I don't think human traffickers line up at the immigration office with their cargo.

[Signals.Cpl]

There are very many girls not being exploited that legitimately come here to do this work. Kenney himself said he needed to change the law because it was not formerly legal for them to deny visas based solely on the type of job they will take. Those exploiting women from other countries are just going to lie about their work or sneak them in without going through the process of getting visas. I don't think human traffickers line up at the immigration office with their cargo.

They will get in one way or another, so we close one point of entry and try closing others as well. There is no point in fighting a problem when we are also essentially legally importing the problem as well.

[cybercoma]

They will get in one way or another, so we close one point of entry and try closing others as well. There is no point in fighting a problem when we are also essentially legally importing the problem as well.

The problem is that they're making the victims criminals, rather than going after the criminals.

[Signals.Cpl]

The problem is that they're making the victims criminals, rather than going after the criminals.

How are they doing that? If we are telling them that we don't want you coming here to be victimized we have enough problems as it is so adding more potential victims is not exactly the brightest Idea. If we can guarantee that a women will get a visa and work only as a stripper fine, but do we really need to import people from other countries who are much more vulnerable?

I invite someone to be stripper in my club, they don't know the language or the laws, I pay for everything to bring that person here and as soon as they land I take their passport and tell them that they can't go home until they pay off the debt. As much as some people complain about police in Canada in other countries its much worse and if the girl comes from such a country she probably won't trust the police. In effect we get a women who is scared, far from home, doesn't know the language, laws or culture, has no freedom and had her passport confiscated. She cannot turn to the police because in many countries the police are the guys running the criminal enterprises so that makes a women the perfect victim.

[Fletch 27]

Hmm, now how exactly are they making the Victims criminals? If there are no Victims allowed in, shouldnt this equal no criminals too? Leave the rhetoric at home...

The problem is that they're making the victims criminals, rather than going after the criminals.

[Moonbox]

Women in Canada are just as likely to be exploited.

No. They're really, really not.

I personally know about half a dozen women that have worked in the business and most of them were from Canada. The two that weren't were from the United States and England.

A testimonial. Well that's reliable. Interesting that you know so many women in the business...I myself know 'none'.

Regardless, if you can't see how easily an Eastern European girl with weak English language skills and no friend or family support could get exploited, I don't know what to say to you. Yes, there are exploited Canadian girls as well. A lot of them are coming from dirt poor, abusive or neglective families, however, and it's a lot harder for the government to anticipate who and where these girls are, and therefore much harder to do anything about. When an 18-25 year old girl from Russia comes here alone, however, and it's pretty clear she'll be stripping, it's much easier to see where things are going. Your assertion that the government is targetting victims is just really stupid. The government is looking to prevent scenarios with high likelihoods of unfortunate outcomes.

Personally I don't really see the value in granting work visas for strippers in the first place. Why are you upset that poor girls from out of country aren't going to be able to come here and take their clothes off for dirt bags and old married men?

[bleeding heart]

No. They're really, really not.

you intone, directly before insisting, if unknowingly, that you didn't even understand cybercoma's post.

A testimonial. Well that's reliable. Interesting that you know so many women in the business...I myself know 'none'.

Well, aren't you special?

And what's with the quotaiton marks? Casting aspersions on your own declaration?

Regardless, if you can't see how easily an Eastern European girl with weak English language skills and no friend or family support could get exploited, I don't know what to say to you.

He didn't say it wasn't happening.

He explicitly said that it was happening.

So what you could say to him is, "Sorry I didn't carefully read your post, even though I responded to it."

Personally I don't really see the value in granting work visas for strippers in the first place. Why are you upset that poor girls from out of country aren't going to be able to come here and take their clothes off for dirt bags and old married men?

Why do you let your personal morals try to dictate what people do in the free market?

Statists, oh my!

[Fletch 27]

I agree with you 100%.... As would Jack Layton who was caught Expoiting his own worker here on her work Visa.

Let the free market reighn! Hand-jobs for all!

you intone, directly before insisting, if unknowingly, that you didn't even understand cybercoma's post.

Well, aren't you special?

And what's with the quotaiton marks? Casting aspersions on your own declaration?

He didn't say it wasn't happening.

He explicitly said that it was happening.

So what you could say to him is, "Sorry I didn't carefully read your post, even though I responded to it."

Why do you let your personal morals try to dictate what people do in the free market?

Statists, oh my!

[cybercoma]

Defaming the deceased. Stay classy.

[bleeding heart]

I agree with you 100%.... As would Jack Layton who was caught Expoiting his own worker here on her work Visa.

He may well have been doing what some people say he was doing. None of us can know.

But no; he wasn't "caught...exploiting" anyone.

I hope no one ever accuses you of criminal wrongdoing, Fletch...you'd assume you were guilty!

[cybercoma]

I hope no one ever accuses you of criminal wrongdoing, Fletch...you'd assume you were guilty!

I disagree. Fletch is Conservative and in Fletch's world, Conservatives can do no wrong.

[Anti-Am]

I see the moral police are hitting a few posters with their proverbial nightsticks. If it weren't for them and forcing their morality on the country, Canada would be one huge cesspool of filth. Just a country full of Gotham like cities before Batman became the protector. We are oh so very fortunate that they are here to shine the light or else we'd be shrouded in eternal darkness and chaos.

[cybercoma]

I guess someone missed the moral dilemma in the Batman stories and the entire point of the Joker character.

[Anti-Am]

I guess someone missed the moral dilemma in the Batman stories and the entire point of the Joker character.

If you ask any conservative they would claim Magnotta is joker and that Canada is a moral decay of liberal ideas. We don't need a Batman to save us. That was my point genius.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Anti-Am

[bleeding heart]

If you ask any conservative they would claim Magnotta is joker and that Canada is a moral decay of liberal ideas.

In that case, they might have a point: the decay of liberal Canadian ideas has led to right-wing maniacs like Magnotta....

....oh, and Wildrose.

.

[cybercoma]

If you ask any conservative they would claim Magnotta is joker and that Canada is a moral decay of liberal ideas. We don't need a Batman to save us. That was my point genius.

Sarcasm is not always obvious.

[Anti-Am]

Sarcasm is not always obvious.

Sarcasm is obvious

[Moonbox]

Well, aren't you special?

And what's with the quotaiton marks? Casting aspersions on your own declaration?

Aspersions...nice! Use the thesaurus for that?

He didn't say it wasn't happening.

He explicitly said that it was happening.

Sure, but the thread is about not allowing work visas to strippers and the rationale behind it, and cybercoma for some reason brought up that Canadian and American girls get exploited too, implying that this was just a misguided puritanical crusade against stripping. Young foreign women coming alone to Canada to work as strippers are putting themselves in positions of risk where the likelihood of exploitation is amplified probably 1000 fold.

So what you could say to him is, "Sorry I didn't carefully read your post, even though I responded to it."

Maybe you could just say, "Sorry for trying to sound smarter than I am and for trolling you with lame gotcha statements."

Try to contribute to the discussion instead of just being a glib little weenie okay?

[bleeding heart]

Aspersions...nice! Use the thesaurus for that?

Sure, but the thread is about not allowing work visas to strippers and the rationale behind it, and cybercoma for some reason brought up that Canadian and American girls get exploited too, implying that this was just a misguided puritanical crusade against stripping. Young foreign women coming alone to Canada to work as strippers are putting themselves in positions of risk where the likelihood of exploitation is amplified probably 1000 fold.

Maybe you could just say, "Sorry for trying to sound smarter than I am and for trolling you with lame gotcha statements."

Try to contribute to the discussion instead of just being a glib little weenie okay?

.....okay....I don't consider myself glib, nor a weenie. But I do apologize for the unnecessary harshness of my response. Unwarranted.

Edited June 12, 2012 by bleeding heart

[CPCFTW]

Those exploiting women from other countries are just going to lie about their work or sneak them in without going through the process of getting visas.

So they will have to break the law to get them into the country now. I don't see how you can say that making it harder for them to exploit women is bad.

I don't think human traffickers line up at the immigration office with their cargo.

Actually they were doing that since it was legal and much easier than smuggling them in illegally.

This thread really separates the idealogues who hate on anything the cpc does, from the rational minds. Good on you madmax!