Argus Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 "Faster and more completely" pretty much ignores my point of the generations of racism they faced and the fact that to this day they still identify as Irish and Italian, rather than Canadian (or in the US, American). And again, that is utterly and completely irrelevent to the point about them integrating into the Canadian mainstream. With all the same protections we afford everyone. If my brother is a bum I have to help pay his bills. That doesn't mean I want to bring random bums in and pay their bills too. And they didn't all go home. They retreated to "ghettoes" and formed gangs in many cases. They didn't go away. You know, I'm sure there were 'gangs' but I never heard of any until the Jamaicans and Haitians started forming them in the seventies. Certainly there were organized crime groups but you didn't see them committing the kinds of street crime today's ethnic gangs are into. The fear of immigrants is as old as the country. No, cliches are as old as the country. Immigrants were never feared, as immigration was a major aspect of this country form its inception. It's true there was something of a clash of cultures in periods and times when large groups came from certain parts of the world, but that was more a matter of an insular attitude on society's part. People felt that if others did things differently there was something wrong with them -- and it didn't matter if those 'others' were immigrants or not. I really don't get why people have this belief that because something worked in the past it will work in the future, even though the entire system has been changed, the gap between us and the immigrants has been enormously widened, and we are now taking large numbers of people from parts of the world whose cultural values are inimical to our own. Virtually nothing about today's immigration is the same as it was in previous generations. Why you think the result will be the same is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Really - you never heard of, like, an Italian organized crime group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Really - you never heard of, like, an Italian organized crime group? Yeah, but they're not as criminal as black people or "ethnic" gangs today. Whatever that means. I wonder if he would consider the murders, drug trafficking, and prostitution rings of the Hell's Angels to be beneath that of the "ethnic" gangs... or maybe they're one of the "ethnic" gangs. I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Really - you never heard of, like, an Italian organized crime group? I actually did mention the Mafia. Apparently your reading skills are deteriorating with age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yeah, but they're not as criminal as black people or "ethnic" gangs today. Whatever that means. I wonder if he would consider the murders, drug trafficking, and prostitution rings of the Hell's Angels to be beneath that of the "ethnic" gangs... or maybe they're one of the "ethnic" gangs. I'm not sure. The ethnic gangs are far more involved in ordinary street crime against ordinary people. The Mafia and bikers mostly keep to themselves and try to keep things low key. I'm sure there are bikers in Ottawa somewhere but I've never seen or heard a thing about them. On the other hand, I see and hear of violence committed by ethnic gangs (mostly Somalians) just about every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) I'm sure there are bikers in Ottawa somewhere but I've never seen or heard a thing about them. Get a hold of your conservative boy Maxime Bernier next time he's in town. I'm sure he can hook you up with and introduce you to some of his and/or his former girlfriend's Hells Angels associates. Edited July 2, 2012 by Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Get a hold of your conservative boy Maxime Bernier next time he's in town. I'm sure he can hook you up with and introduce you to some of his and/or his former girlfriend's Hells Angels associates. Your argument seems to be that the Hells Angels have hot ex-girlfriends... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Your argument seems to be that the Hells Angels have hot ex-girlfriends... No, my point is that your boy, conservative mp Maxime Bernier is known to have had ties to the Hells Angels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 No, my point is that your boy, conservative mp Maxime Bernier is known to have had ties to the Hells Angels. No, he was known to have had ties to a hot girl who had once had ties to the Hells Angels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 No, he was known to have had ties to a hot girl who had once had ties to the Hells Angels. He was living with the ex-wife of one of the top Hells Angels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 The ethnic gangs are far more involved in ordinary street crime against ordinary people. The Mafia and bikers mostly keep to themselves and try to keep things low key. I'm sure there are bikers in Ottawa somewhere but I've never seen or heard a thing about them. On the other hand, I see and hear of violence committed by ethnic gangs (mostly Somalians) just about every day. Just look at the Somali deaths out West. EXCERPT: Since 2005, dozens of young men from Canada’s Somali community have been killed, most of them casualties along a cocaine-dusted corridor between the housing projects of Toronto and the oil patch in Alberta. Most cases remain unsolved.The latest slaying was among the most brazen. Ahmed Hassan, a 24-year-old who’d been charged with dealing drugs in Alberta, was gunned down in Toronto’s Eaton Centre. His public death has nudged this grief into the spotlight and renewed calls from Somali community leaders for governments to help stop the bloodshed. Ultimately, the shooting has forced the country to confront the vexing question of why so many of these young men who go west end up dead. Western dream a nightmare The Somali-Canadian community may be rooted in Toronto, but the source of its grief is in Alberta, where at least 23 young men have died in the past seven years. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/why-so-many-somali-canadians-who-go-west-end-up-dead/article4365992/?page=all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 The ethnic gangs are far more involved in ordinary street crime against ordinary people. The Mafia and bikers mostly keep to themselves and try to keep things low key. I'm sure there are bikers in Ottawa somewhere but I've never seen or heard a thing about them. On the other hand, I see and hear of violence committed by ethnic gangs (mostly Somalians) just about every day. I'm sure you could make a killing with the soccer leagues if you started a professional goalpost moving service you know. So, I will give you a chance to back up this claim of low-key crime management by whiter gangs. Does that include the child who was killed by a bomb in Montreal? Do you feel more comforted by murders commited by familiar looking races? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I'm sure you could make a killing with the soccer leagues if you started a professional goalpost moving service you know. So, I will give you a chance to back up this claim of low-key crime management by whiter gangs. Does that include the child who was killed by a bomb in Montreal? Do you feel more comforted by murders commited by familiar looking races? IF there were stats available, (which when kept were deemed racist for some reason), I suggest that Jamaican-Somali gangs are responsible for more violent crime today in Canada. Usually drug related against one another. Once upon a time the Irish perhaps, the Mafiosa, Tongs and bikers were the main source of crime in Canada. But certainly not to the degree that of today's gangs that think nothing of shoot outs in public place. I'm sure that the bikers and others are still in the trade of crime, but they certainly don't make the news like the black gangs shooting one another, and the occasional bystander, do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I'm sure that the bikers and others are still in the trade of crime, but they certainly don't make the news like the black gangs shooting one another, and the occasional bystander, do. Isn't this an admission that the media plays closer attention to so called ethnIc gangs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Lower immigration will lead to higher wages. It is the willingness of lower class immigrants to do menial labor for min wage that keeps all wages low. If we need immigrants lets only bring in what we need as a country. The state should also decide where these immigrants are allowed to live and work. If we need a Dr. out west guess what that immigrant Dr. will only be allowed to live and work out west. Papers will need to be checked regularly with people breaking these immigration laws will be sent back to wherever they came from. We could have checkpoints like in Israel. I like they way the Israeli's deal with things. Very clever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I'm sure you could make a killing with the soccer leagues if you started a professional goalpost moving service you know. So, I will give you a chance to back up this claim of low-key crime management by whiter gangs. Does that include the child who was killed by a bomb in Montreal? Do you feel more comforted by murders commited by familiar looking races? This is just an example of really lazy thinking, which unfortunately is all too commonplace on this site, especially from the Left, who tend to argue emotionally and without much in the way of facts. It's the kind of thing you see whenever there's a discussion about Muslim terrorism. There might be ten thousand incidents of Muslim terrorism in a given period( actually there HAVE BEEN ten thousand incidents of Muslim terrorism committed in the last ten years) but if you ever try to suggest Muslims might be more inclined to commit terrorism some desperately earnest left winger will google the world until he finds one or two incidents of Christian terrorism and then wave them frantically aloft as if the two incidents entirely disprove you. "All religions commit terrorism!" he'll shout. In this case you've gone back ten years to find an incident in the bizarre drug war between the Hells Angels and the Montreal Mafia and seem to feel this means something. But notice that I never said the Hells Angels or Mafia were nice people and didn't commit violence. All I said was that you don't hear about it every day like you do from say, Somalians and Jamaicans. No one avoids living in certain areas, or lives in fear because of biker gangs in public housing projects or the mafia in the schools. "Oh, can't wear red to school! That's the Corleoni family's colours!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Isn't this an admission that the media plays closer attention to so called ethnIc gangs? When they're shooting up the streets, when they make it dangerous for people to send their kids to schools, when they gather in packs near suburban malls to swarm people and mug them, yeah, I suppose. When the Hells Angels start hanging around South Keys Mall to steal people's IPods and phones you'll have a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 This is just an example of really lazy thinking, which unfortunately is all too commonplace on this site, especially from the Left, who tend to argue emotionally and without much in the way of facts. It's the kind of thing you see whenever there's a discussion about Muslim terrorism. There might be ten thousand incidents of Muslim terrorism in a given period( actually there HAVE BEEN ten thousand incidents of Muslim terrorism committed in the last ten years) but if you ever try to suggest Muslims might be more inclined to commit terrorism some desperately earnest left winger will google the world until he finds one or two incidents of Christian terrorism and then wave them frantically aloft as if the two incidents entirely disprove you. "All religions commit terrorism!" he'll shout. Sorry, but the monopoly on emotionalism in this debate comes from the right. If you take out the "fact" that people don't like Muslims, there isn't anything else to go on. Muslims are the bogeyman of the moment, so the angry crowd will find a reason to be angry yet again. Yes, anger IS an emotion. In this case you've gone back ten years to find an incident in the bizarre drug war between the Hells Angels and the Montreal Mafia and seem to feel this means something. As opposed to 9/11, which was 11 years ago. But notice that I never said the Hells Angels or Mafia were nice people and didn't commit violence. All I said was that you don't hear about it every day like you do from say, Somalians and Jamaicans. No one avoids living in certain areas, or lives in fear because of biker gangs in public housing projects or the mafia in the schools. "Oh, can't wear red to school! That's the Corleoni family's colours!" So you're openly talking about perceptions of crime as THE reason to exonerate known white gangs. Do you see now ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 IF there were stats available, (which when kept were deemed racist for some reason), I suggest that Jamaican-Somali gangs are responsible for more violent crime today in Canada. Usually drug related against one another. Once upon a time the Irish perhaps, the Mafiosa, Tongs and bikers were the main source of crime in Canada. But certainly not to the degree that of today's gangs that think nothing of shoot outs in public place. I'm sure that the bikers and others are still in the trade of crime, but they certainly don't make the news like the black gangs shooting one another, and the occasional bystander, do. bikers not involved in public shootouts and bombings,?...you have a very selective memory... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 IF there were stats available, (which when kept were deemed racist for some reason), I suggest that Jamaican-Somali gangs are responsible for more violent crime today in Canada. Usually drug related against one another. This is a pretty silly angle, considering you're talking about degrees of the worst violence in Canada.You have Somali and Jamaican gangs moving drugs and mowing each other down for turf and you have motorcycle gangs of home-grown white boys doing the same thing. The Angry White Male contingent on these forums seems to have a short memory for these things though. See: Bandidos Massacre. That's ignoring crimes as committed by the Robert Pictons, Paul Bernardos, and Mike Rafferties of Canada. Anyone that suggests senseless violence is a result of immigrant communities is turning a blind eye to our own backyard on purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Sorry, but the monopoly on emotionalism in this debate comes from the right. If you take out the "fact" that people don't like Muslims, there isn't anything else to go on. Well, there are those ten thousand terrorist incidents, but aside from that.... As opposed to 9/11, which was 11 years ago. Yeah, and was followed by ten thousand more terrorist incidents by Muslims, but never mind that... So you're openly talking about perceptions of crime as THE reason to exonerate known white gangs. Do you see now ? It's not a perception when your neighborhood is filled with gang violence. What neighborhood in Canada is filled with biker gang violence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 This is a pretty silly angle, considering you're talking about degrees of the worst violence in Canada. You have Somali and Jamaican gangs moving drugs and mowing each other down for turf and you have motorcycle gangs of home-grown white boys doing the same thing. Not in the Eaton Centre you don't. That's ignoring crimes as committed by the Robert Pictons, Paul Bernardos, and Mike Rafferties of Canada. People generally don't worry about the occasional psycho. They worry more about everyday street criminals, which in this part of the woods seem to often be immigrants. Anyone that suggests senseless violence is a result of immigrant communities is turning a blind eye to our own backyard on purpose. Way to throw out a strawman. No one has ever suggested all the 'senseless violence' is due to immigrants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) This is a pretty silly angle, considering you're talking about degrees of the worst violence in Canada. You have Somali and Jamaican gangs moving drugs and mowing each other down for turf and you have motorcycle gangs of home-grown white boys doing the same thing. The Angry White Male contingent on these forums seems to have a short memory for these things though. See: Bandidos Massacre. That's ignoring crimes as committed by the Robert Pictons, Paul Bernardos, and Mike Rafferties of Canada. Anyone that suggests senseless violence is a result of immigrant communities is turning a blind eye to our own backyard on purpose. but it was white boys who gunned down the bikers, it was white boys who did the public machine gunning of a vehicle in a public space at a Kelowna hotel, it was white boys(Red Scorpions) who massacred gang members and innocents alike in Surrey...the forum racists only see brown people committing crime and hey if they're brown they must be immigrants right, even if they were born in Canada... Edited July 3, 2012 by wyly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Well, there are those ten thousand terrorist incidents, but aside from that.... You don't have any facts there that associate their religion with those acts. Because people of a certain religion and/or nationality commit bad deeds we shouldn't let them in to Canada right ? Yeah, and was followed by ten thousand more terrorist incidents by Muslims, but never mind that... No, let's consider those. You just have to prove to me that their mindset was caused by their religion. It's not a perception when your neighborhood is filled with gang violence. What neighborhood in Canada is filled with biker gang violence? Scramble. Goalposts moved to side of the field. How about that cornfield neighbourhood in SW Ontario, or that neighbourhood where that bomb killed that boy ? Yes, I know it was ten years ago and not September 11th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Isn't this an admission that the media plays closer attention to so called ethnIc gangs? That's a red herring. The 'media" plays closer attention to shootings in public places where bystanders get hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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