Michael Hardner Posted May 19, 2012 Report Posted May 19, 2012 Thank God that there are so few people like you, close-minded, ignorant, and bipolar when it comes to violence. Hi SC - please stay away from personal slights - see the rules. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
fellowtraveller Posted May 19, 2012 Report Posted May 19, 2012 Cite? Sorry, but I am not your Googlebitch. It has been reported many times, the Quebec govt has bursary programs for low income students, Charest has stated flatly that those programs will be maintained if not expsnded. The tuition reforms have no effect whatsoever on low income students. Quote The government should do something.
fellowtraveller Posted May 19, 2012 Report Posted May 19, 2012 I understand what the students are saying, but I don`t agree with the way they are doing this. If they could get two-thirds of the students to boycott all the schools, that would have a better effect than getting arrested record. Canadian cops do not generally maintain arrest records. They do maintain and share conviction records. Quote The government should do something.
bleeding heart Posted May 19, 2012 Report Posted May 19, 2012 Sorry, but I am not your Googlebitch. It has been reported many times, the Quebec govt has bursary programs for low income students, Charest has stated flatly that those programs will be maintained if not expsnded. The tuition reforms have no effect whatsoever on low income students. So...they attend "for free now" and "in the future"...and that this "free tuition" will be possibly "expanded?" Is Charest promising to pay poor students to attend university? Or are these questions insulting, demanding you be my "googlebitch"? Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
jacee Posted May 19, 2012 Report Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) What they arr doing, that covered on nightly news ... Ahh ... I think I see your problem ... When it comes to the media ... two words ... VIOLENCE SELLS! Of course the media focus on the few people misbehaving , who may or may not be students ... might be cops. Pictures of hundreds of peaceful protesters don't sell. Pictures of police violence against students seem to cause people to think the students did something wrong, but the vast majority did nothing wrong. The police use any excuse to be violent towards the peaceful protesters. VIOLENCE SELLS! That doesn't make the students wrong ... It makes the police wrong. Edited May 19, 2012 by jacee Quote
bleeding heart Posted May 19, 2012 Report Posted May 19, 2012 Ahh ... I think I see your problem ... When it comes to the media ... two words ... VIOLENCE SELLS! Of course the media focus on the few people misbehaving , who may or may not be students ... might be cops. Pictures of hundreds of peaceful protesters don't sell. Pictures of police violence against students seem to cause people to think the students did something wrong, but the vast majority did nothing wrong. The police use any excuse to be violent towards the peaceful protesters. VIOLENCE SELLS! That doesn't make the students wrong ... It makes the police wrong. It's interesting to watch the same people who decry the "leftwing, driveby, msm" suddenly assume it is the perfect authority for every important fact. So long as it aligns with preconceived notions and the "correct" political stance...... Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
fellowtraveller Posted May 19, 2012 Report Posted May 19, 2012 So...they attend "for free now" and "in the future"...and that this "free tuition" will be possibly "expanded?" Is Charest promising to pay poor students to attend university? Or are these questions insulting, demanding you be my "googlebitch"? Yes, please refrain from insults and buy a newspaper. If you cannot afford a newspaper, email your address and I'll send you a loonie. Quote The government should do something.
bleeding heart Posted May 19, 2012 Report Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) Yes, please refrain from insults and buy a newspaper. If you cannot afford a newspaper, email your address and I'll send you a loonie. I didn't insult you. This is as untrue as your wild claim about free tuition to which I responded. I understand you don't enjoy being exposed as a dishonest debater...but there's an easy remedy to that, and it's all on your own shoulders. Edited May 19, 2012 by bleeding heart Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
Wilber Posted May 19, 2012 Report Posted May 19, 2012 worked for the americans against king charles III. If Prince Charles becomes king, he will be Charles III. Until then, no such animal. Perhaps this bunch would prefer US tuition rates though. Not. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
jacee Posted May 19, 2012 Report Posted May 19, 2012 Perhaps this bunch would prefer US tuition rates though. Not. What they do in the US is irrelevant to us. What we're trying to accomplish here is for everyone who qualifies too be able to go to postsecondary. However, we've never reached that goal and it's getting increasingly distant because tuition keeps increasing and more and more young people/families are unable to afford it. Quote
fellowtraveller Posted May 19, 2012 Report Posted May 19, 2012 Oh, FFS: help for low income studentsincreasing tuition fees, but simultaneously increasing aid to those from low income families to offset those increases. Quote The government should do something.
Wilber Posted May 20, 2012 Report Posted May 20, 2012 What they do in the US is irrelevant to us. What we're trying to accomplish here is for everyone who qualifies too be able to go to postsecondary. However, we've never reached that goal and it's getting increasingly distant because tuition keeps increasing and more and more young people/families are unable to afford it. I didn't make the comparison. I do find it ironic that the people with the lowest tuition rates on the continent are the ones making the most noise. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
jacee Posted May 20, 2012 Report Posted May 20, 2012 I didn't make the comparison. I do find it ironic that the people with the lowest tuition rates on the continent are the ones making the most noise. They're facing a 75% increase. Postsecondary education is a necessity. Tuition should be free. Quote
TimG Posted May 20, 2012 Report Posted May 20, 2012 Tuition should be free.Absolutely not. There need to be bursaries and loans to ensure people without means can go to university but a price signal is absolutely essential. Without a price signal people have no incentive to complete their studies quickly or choose majors with better chances of paying job after the degree.It is worth noting that countries like Germany with free education end up rationing access (just like Canadian healthcare) to control costs. This means it can take up to 7 years to get a 4 year degree because of space limits on mandatory courses. Quote
Wilber Posted May 20, 2012 Report Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) They're facing a 75% increase. Postsecondary education is a necessity. Tuition should be free. 100% of nothing is still nothing and nothing is "free". We offered to pay 100% of our son's tuition but he refused because he said he wouldn't work as hard if he didn't have a financial stake in the result. I don't know where the hell he got that from (probably his mother) but it impressed the hell out of me. Edited May 20, 2012 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
jacee Posted May 20, 2012 Report Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) Oh, FFS: help for low income studentsincreasing tuition fees, but simultaneously increasing aid to those from low income families to offset those increases. It was not so long ago that all of these arguments were made about secondary school education ... that those who could pay should continue to, that there was (some) funding for a some smart poor kids, that the rest probably didn't want to go anyway ... But we got past that, and deemed secondary education a necessity for everyone. Likewise we'll get past this, because we are at the point where postsecondary education is a necessity. Education isn't a privilege, it's a universal responsibility, and a universal benefit to the country economically. The Quebec students are just the beginning. Edited May 20, 2012 by jacee Quote
Wilber Posted May 20, 2012 Report Posted May 20, 2012 It was not so long ago that all of these arguments were made about secondary school education ... that those who could pay should continue to, that there was (some) funding for a some smart poor kids, that the rest probably didn't want to go anyway ... But we got past that, and deemed secondary education a necessity for everyone. Likewise we'll get past this, because we are at the point where postsecondary education is a necessity. Education isn't a privilege, it's a universal responsibility, and a universal benefit to the country economically. The Quebec students are just the beginning. I would agree that some secondary education is a necessity but a university education is not. Ultimately the students will be the losers here because demanding someone else pays your way is not a strong position to be in. Students who's primary interest is getting a degree will go elsewhere if the Quebec activists make it too difficult to get it there. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
jacee Posted May 20, 2012 Report Posted May 20, 2012 I would agree that some secondary education is a necessity "Some"? Who hires anyone without a secondary diploma? No one. And few are hired without some college. And those are few and precarious jobs. but a university education is not. It is for anyone who can qualify. Ultimately the students will be the losers here because demanding someone else pays your way is not a strong position to be in. Students who's primary interest is getting a degree will go elsewhere if the Quebec activists make it too difficult to get it there. Again, that's what the elitists said about secondary education a few generations ago: Why are they demanding that we pay for 'them'? It's an old and divisive tactic, not very helpful for the overall growth and development of our economy and society. If there is a such a mass exodus of students from Quebec, it's Charest's problem. The unnerving violence in the streets is the police beating on students. I can understand parents not wanting to risk that. They should speak to Charest about negotiating a peaceful resolution rather than escalating the violence as he has. Quote
Rick Posted May 20, 2012 Report Posted May 20, 2012 If there is a such a mass exodus of students from Quebec, it's Charest's problem. The unnerving violence in the streets is the police beating on students. I can understand parents not wanting to risk that. They should speak to Charest about negotiating a peaceful resolution rather than escalating the violence as he has. Well said. Quote “This is all about who you represent,” Mr. Dewar (NDP) said. “We’re (NDP) talking about representing the interests of working people and everyday Canadians and they [the Conservatives] are about representing the fund managers who come in and fleece our companies and our country. Voted Maple Leaf Web's 'Most Outstanding Poster' 2011
bleeding heart Posted May 20, 2012 Report Posted May 20, 2012 Tuition should be free. According to one of the critics here, tuition is free, and will become more free later. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
Wilber Posted May 20, 2012 Report Posted May 20, 2012 "Some"? Who hires anyone without a secondary diploma? No one. And few are hired without some college. And those are few and precarious jobs. Secondary education doesn't only mean a university degree. Save us from a world full of university graduates where no one wants to get their hands dirty. It is for anyone who can qualify. Being qualified for something doesn't automatically make you entitled to it. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Peter F Posted May 20, 2012 Report Posted May 20, 2012 According to one of the critics here, tuition is free, and will become more free later. yes, it seems university is only of value if its paid for and the government will make sure the poor never pay for it! Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
Tilter Posted May 20, 2012 Report Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) yes, it seems university is only of value if its paid for and the government will make sure the poor never pay for it! Those Damn Albertans. In a radio callin show in Montreal, the subject of which was --What is the cause of the student riots in Quebec--- a caller stated that the cause was-- "Alberta should send more money" WTF Edited May 20, 2012 by Tilter Quote
Rick Posted May 20, 2012 Report Posted May 20, 2012 Those Damn Albertans. In a radio callin show in Montreal, the subject of which was --What is the cause of the student riots in Quebec--- a caller stated that the cause was-- "Alberta should send more money" WTF Funny...I was listening to a different radio callin show in Montreal the other day where a caller stated that the cause of the student riots was rich silver spoon fed windbags who're trying to oppress the next generation in any way possible, just like they're doing to the current one with their failed 'trickle down reganomics' practices.Your caller was right though...Alberta should send more money. Quote “This is all about who you represent,” Mr. Dewar (NDP) said. “We’re (NDP) talking about representing the interests of working people and everyday Canadians and they [the Conservatives] are about representing the fund managers who come in and fleece our companies and our country. Voted Maple Leaf Web's 'Most Outstanding Poster' 2011
Tilter Posted May 20, 2012 Report Posted May 20, 2012 Funny...I was listening to a different radio callin show in Montreal the other day where a caller stated that the cause of the student riots was rich silver spoon fed windbags who're trying to oppress the next generation in any way possible, just like they're doing to the current one with their failed 'trickle down reganomics' practices. Your caller was right though...Alberta should send more money. You could possibly (about one in a million chance) if the cause of the protest had ANY justice. The "silverspoon fed" students involved in this idiocy have by far, (far lower than Alberta) lower tuition than other Canadian post secondary schools making the protest a mockery of sensibility. Quote
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