So I ask, what is or defines a Canadian?

-TSS- · May 25, 2012

So, if Quebec ever declared independence there would be years and years of wrangling over where the borders of that new independent country would be?

guyser · May 25, 2012

So, if Quebec ever declared independence there would be years and years of wrangling over where the borders of that new independent country would be?

Guessing on my part, but yes.

I would suspect the worst would be coming up with new boundaries between the First Nations and Quebec.But the bill presented to Quebec for things like Federal Buildings and the like would be pretty bad.

Afterall, cant dine and not pay the bill.

g_bambino · May 25, 2012

But the bill presented to Quebec for things like Federal Buildings and the like would be pretty bad.
Afterall, cant dine and not pay the bill.

I'm not so sure about that; it doesn't seem to be common for a country to present a bill for infrastructure to a former subdivision that broke away and became independent. The UK certainly didn't when Canada became sovereign, or when Newfoundland was transferred from British to Canadian jurisdiction.

Jack Weber · May 25, 2012

I'm not so sure about that; it doesn't seem to be common for a country to present a bill for infrastructure to a former subdivision that broke away and became independent. The UK certainly didn't when Canada became sovereign, or when Newfoundland was transferred from British to Canadian jurisdiction.

I agree that I highly doubt the bill for things like infrastructure would ever materialize.The issue of where actual borders would be would be rather tense,I suspect...

Signals.Cpl · May 25, 2012

I'm not so sure about that; it doesn't seem to be common for a country to present a bill for infrastructure to a former subdivision that broke away and became independent. The UK certainly didn't when Canada became sovereign, or when Newfoundland was transferred from British to Canadian jurisdiction.

The federal buildings and property would in the case of a separate Quebec be split based on population I would think. Just like the Federal debt and to some extent the military. There are some things that they would have to foot the bill for, like severance package for all the civil servants no longer required by Canada due to the split.

guyser · May 25, 2012

I'm not so sure about that; it doesn't seem to be common for a country to present a bill for infrastructure to a former subdivision that broke away and became independent. The UK certainly didn't when Canada became sovereign, or when Newfoundland was transferred from British to Canadian jurisdiction.

All true, but I would think that is different since the Dominion remained true to Britain. We remain a Commonwealth country (not that I need to say that to you, of all people )

Claudius · May 25, 2012

"So I ask, what is or defines a Canadian?"

Absolutely nothing anymore. With the advent of "The Real Housewives of Vancouver" Canada has become a country of left-leaning Americans pretending to be something else.

GreenGreg · May 26, 2012

Yes it is.

It answersd the question with all the criteria needed.

I was born here = I am Canadian

My sister in law got her citizenship papers = She is Canadian.

Am I missing something?

Nailed it. Legal status seems to be the enabling element that defines one's Canadianism. One could hold Canadianesque ideals or values (within Charter & Constitution) without being a proper citizen but only the officially recognized papers can validate the claim.

Michael Hardner · May 26, 2012

With the advent of "The Real Housewives of Vancouver" ...

I never thought I would ever hear of a show like that existing, let alone hearing that the definition of Canadian (legal or otherwise) is now void because of it.

May 26, 2012

"So I ask, what is or defines a Canadian?"

Absolutely nothing anymore. With the advent of "The Real Housewives of Vancouver" Canada has become a country of left-leaning Americans pretending to be something else.

"Canada has become a country of left-leaning Americans pretending to be something else."

An interesting opinion. I disagree though. I think there are definitely Canadian values and distinctions between Canadians and others...Americans, British,

Yet we have elected a Conservative government and taken different stands on issues.

I consider myself as a Canadian first and foremost and my values conflict at times with other countries actions. I don't think a person that wants to separate from Canada, participating in such an action or belief as defining a Canadian.

I don't consider those that break the law or serve other masters a within the definition of a Canadian,,(fight for other countries that are our enemies or fight with those attacking our friends.)

I don't consider refugees or immigrants that lied to jump the queue for citizenship or refuge as defining Canadian's values.

I don't define those that consider themselves as another nation first as defining what I would consider a Canadian.

I'm a Canadian.

May 26, 2012

Nailed it. Legal status seems to be the enabling element that defines one's Canadianism. One could hold Canadianesque ideals or values (within Charter & Constitution) without being a proper citizen but only the officially recognized papers can validate the claim.

I wasn't asking what makes a person a legal Canadian. "What defines a Canadian?"

I don't think Omar Khadr for example defines a Canadian, nor does his family. I think ambassador Ken Taylor defines a Canadian. I think GANDER, NEWFOUNDLAND on 911 and after defines a Canadian.

Just a couple of opinions I hold.

bleeding heart · May 26, 2012

Bullshit. People like Paul Bernardo for example get off on videotaping their heinous crimes.

Can you honesty tell me that sack of shit deserves to live? I don't care if he lives in a 5x10 concrete cell with no windows...it is more than the girls he killed have. Why should we pay a cent for him to live?

For what it costs to buy that cocksucker a tube of toothpaste and a toothbrush I could buy the bullet to put in his head, the gas to burn his fucking body and a beer to sit back afterwards and reflect on a job well done.

But if we step outside your homicidal fantasies for a moment, we understand that capital punishment is in fact quite expensive.

And they're certainly not going to take your suggestion, and hire some murderous and bloodthirsty reactionary to perform matters of State on the cheap.

Edited May 27, 2012 by bleeding heart

Claudius · May 26, 2012

I never thought I would ever hear of a show like that existing, let alone hearing that the definition of Canadian (legal or otherwise) is now void because of it.

Well obviously I am joking just a little there, yet...

You have 14 pages+ now of ambiguous definitions and major disagreements on what is a "Canadian", so as one considers how difficult it is to put your finger on it one might also have to consider we might be trying to define something that is no longer there. I've lost a lot of my patriotism for this country because it's lost a lot of what I used to consider Canadian. I mean consider the Molson beer "I am Canadian" commercials. This are filled with ambiguous nonsense that either has nothing to do with being Canadian or everything to do with being a citizen of many countries one could name, and yet people lap it up and thrust their fist in the air in agreement with them.

....and it's a beer commercial for crissakes. If rallying around a commercial doesn't sound more American than Canadian to you well...

Edited May 26, 2012 by Claudius

Claudius · May 26, 2012

"Canada has become a country of left-leaning Americans pretending to be something else."

An interesting opinion. I disagree though. I think there are definitely Canadian values and distinctions between Canadians and others...Americans, British,

Fair enough but consider that A) many other Canadians may not subscribe to the same distinctions making them more your distinctions that Canadas and B ) even within British and American societies opinions differ so much that it is hard to distinguish their own distinctions and many of those distinctions they hold in common with each other and us, making our claim to them less solid. Edited May 26, 2012 by Claudius

Claudius · May 26, 2012

I think GANDER, NEWFOUNDLAND on 911 and after defines a Canadian.

That one's not bad.

Peter F · May 26, 2012

That one's not bad.

I think it sucks as a definition. I'm Canadian and had nothing whatsoever to do with Gander nfld 911

Michael Hardner · May 26, 2012

Well obviously I am joking just a little there, yet...

You have 14 pages+ now of ambiguous definitions and major disagreements on what is a "Canadian", so as one considers how difficult it is to put your finger on it one might also have to consider we might be trying to define something that is no longer there.

All the more reason to default to the only agreed-upon definition: the legal one that I posted.

I've lost a lot of my patriotism for this country because it's lost a lot of what I used to consider Canadian. I mean consider the Molson beer "I am Canadian" commercials. This are filled with ambiguous nonsense that either has nothing to do with being Canadian or everything to do with being a citizen of many countries one could name, and yet people lap it up and thrust their fist in the air in agreement with them.

I don't know anybody who lapped that up. But then again, somebody must because they produced them.

And it's important to note that people light up the fireworks of patriotism when they're trying to patronize you, i.e. get you to buy beer, trucks, or increased security measures.

....and it's a beer commercial for crissakes. If rallying around a commercial doesn't sound more American than Canadian to you well...

I don't think Canada and America are that different, except for a few details: population, slightly divergent history, royalist inclinations, and ethnic makeup.

guyser · May 26, 2012

I don't consider those that break the law or serve other masters a within the definition of a CanadianI don't consider refugees or immigrants that lied to jump the queue for citizenship or refuge as defining Canadian's values.

I don't define those that consider themselves as another nation first as defining what I would consider a Canadian.

I'm a Canadian.

Hopefully the bold part is a simply error in writing.

However, if not, then by your own definition you are not Canadian. You have broken the law, that I am positive about.

As for those who lied or jumped the queue , some of them have done so because the desperately wanted to live here. As for refuge, did you mean refugee , if so , then that too is a misnomer since there is no 'line to jump' .

Your original post was vague . The first reply , mine, answered it succinctly and cheekily in an attempt for you to realize the vagueness and lack of clarity on what you were asking.

What is a Canadian- one who is born here or gets citizenship status (some other ways as pointed out by gbambino)

Legal status is the answer.Pretty much the only answer.

All you had to do was add the word values at the end .

Edited May 26, 2012 by guyser

dre · May 27, 2012

I play hockey, drink beer, hunt moose and elk, and dont consider the infantile xenophobic rants of people on a political forum with 20 active members relevant to our immigrantion or citizenship policy.

And I AM Canadian, and Canada most definately WAS the current location of the vagina I came out of!

dre · May 27, 2012

As for those who lied or jumped the queue , some of them have done so because the desperately wanted to live here.

Yeah I wouldnt want to live in a place whos queue was not worth jumping!

bleeding heart · May 27, 2012

I don't think Canada and America are that different, except for a few details: population, slightly divergent history, royalist inclinations, and ethnic makeup.

I doubt that Canada or the US are more like any other country than they are like each other.

May 27, 2012

I doubt that Canada or the US are more like any other country than they are like each other.

I agree, but there are distinctions and I've lived in both.

Possibly the one major distinction being the "melting pot" philosophy there and the multi-cultural fiasco here.

bleeding heart · May 27, 2012

I agree, but there are distinctions and I've lived in both.

No doubt there are distinctions; that's the very nature of existence itself, never mind contiguous but separate nation states.

Possibly the one major distinction being the "melting pot" philosophy there and the multi-cultural fiasco here.

They both seem to work quite well, on the whole.

g_bambino · May 27, 2012

Legal status seems to be the enabling element that defines one's Canadianism. One could hold Canadianesque ideals or values (within Charter & Constitution) without being a proper citizen but only the officially recognized papers can validate the claim.

That's pretty sad. Fortunately, the definition of Canadian is more broad and nuanced than a legal classification.

bleeding heart · May 27, 2012

That's pretty sad. Fortunately, the definition of Canadian is more broad and nuanced than a legal classification.

No question, but you'll never get anyone to agree on anything besides the legal classification. Which is why it's the only substantive (uncontroversially substantive) quality yet named.