Call upon the Conservatives to split the budget bill

[cybercoma]

As you're probably all aware by now, the Conservatives have lumped together major changes to environmental legislation and immigration laws into the budget bill. While the Conservatives have a majority, so they can pass whatever bills they want, this contradicts their claim to openness and transparency. I've yet to do this, but I call upon everyone here to email their MPs, Jim Flaherty, and the party leaders to demand that these measures are separated out of the budget bill.

Why?

The budget bill goes directly to the finance committee. If this bill is split, then the portions that deal with environment and immigration will go, as they rightfully should, to their respective committees.

There is no stopping the changes that the Conservatives want to implement. However, we need to stand up for the proper political process that affords openness and transparency to the workings of our government. Our representatives in the house and on the committees need to be able to go on record, bringing everyone's voices to the table on changes to legislation that will have a great impact on Canada in the future. If you're Conservative, that may mean arguing for the positive economic impact of these things. Yet, all of this is undermined by jamming through legislation in the budget bill, as one bundle with completely unrelated parts.

So please, stand up for open and transparent governance and ask your MP, Jim Flaherty, and the party leaders to separate changes to environmental regulations and immigration legislation from the budget bill.

[nittanylionstorm07]

That's basically what happens in the US. Lump things not even remotely related to the title of a bill in there in an attempt to hide their passing from the public.

It's truly sad. Canadians must stand up and stop this Americanesque nonsense from occurring in their government.

[Fletch 27]

"While the Conservatives have a majority, so they can pass whatever bills they want, this contradicts their claim to openness and transparency"??????

Ok, Your staement is fucking stupid and makes your teeeny weeny little cause totally useless.. Im part of the Canadian Majority and Im sure is speak for all of us when we say "WTF is in your head"...

You win the dumbest post of the week... err "weak"

As you're probably all aware by now, the Conservatives have lumped together major changes to environmental legislation and immigration laws into the budget bill. While the Conservatives have a majority, so they can pass whatever bills they want, this contradicts their claim to openness and transparency. I've yet to do this, but I call upon everyone here to email their MPs, Jim Flaherty, and the party leaders to demand that these measures are separated out of the budget bill.

Why?

The budget bill goes directly to the finance committee. If this bill is split, then the portions that deal with environment and immigration will go, as they rightfully should, to their respective committees.

There is no stopping the changes that the Conservatives want to implement. However, we need to stand up for the proper political process that affords openness and transparency to the workings of our government. Our representatives in the house and on the committees need to be able to go on record, bringing everyone's voices to the table on changes to legislation that will have a great impact on Canada in the future. If you're Conservative, that may mean arguing for the positive economic impact of these things. Yet, all of this is undermined by jamming through legislation in the budget bill, as one bundle with completely unrelated parts.

So please, stand up for open and transparent governance and ask your MP, Jim Flaherty, and the party leaders to separate changes to environmental regulations and immigration legislation from the budget bill.

[cybercoma]

"While the Conservatives have a majority, so they can pass whatever bills they want, this contradicts their claim to openness and transparency"??????

Ok, Your staement is fucking stupid and makes your teeeny weeny little cause totally useless.. Im part of the Canadian Majority and Im sure is speak for all of us when we say "WTF is in your head"...

You win the dumbest post of the week... err "weak"

My fault for not clarifying what I meant by "this" in that sentence. Just for amusement's sake, what do you think I meant by "this" in that sentence?

[waldo]

"While the Conservatives have a majority, so they can pass whatever bills they want, this contradicts their claim to openness and transparency"??????

Ok, Your statement is fucking stupid and makes your teeeny weeny little cause totally useless.. Im part of the Canadian Majority and Im sure is speak for all of us when we say "WTF is in your head"...

You win the dumbest post of the week... err "weak"

so... your reference point for Harper Conservative "openness and transparency" is to force-bundle disparate legislative reform into a single omnibus bill? To quite literally "bury" major reforms to environmental protection, EI, natural resource development, and OAS into the... budget bill? That's representative of, 'what's in your head'?

[g_bambino]

This tactic does seem to contribute to the troubling reduction of parliament's role in governance. The content of bills is to be debated in both chambers of parliament. That becomes more difficult to do when so much legislative change is crammed into one bill and the amount of time dedicated to debating that bill is strictly limited.

One hopes it will get more scrutiny in committee and in the Senate.

[Fletch 27]

Ummm, Simply read it! Pretty f-in transparent to me ! And where is this desperate legilative reform? Oh,, What I voted for??? DUHHHH... Read it!

What the hell is wrong with an efficiant government??????????? "Force"???? Ya! Thats what you can do wen the MAJORITY says you can and we are A-OK with that!!!!!!! Get over your loss.... Your spend thrift, waste of timers are long gone... THIS is how the Majority get stuff done... Thats why its called a majority

so... your reference point for Harper Conservative "openness and transparency" is to force-bundle disparate legislative reform into a single omnibus bill? To quite literally "bury" major reforms to environmental protection, EI, natural resource development, and OAS into the... budget bill? That's representative of, 'what's in your head'?

[g_bambino]

What the hell is wrong with an efficiant government???????????

Here's a better question: What's wrong with a less responsible government? (Hint: Research the Family Compact and Château Clique.)

[cybercoma]

This tactic does seem to contribute to the troubling reduction of parliament's role in governance. The content of bills is to be debated in both chambers of parliament. That becomes more difficult to do when so much legislative change is crammed into one bill and the amount of time dedicated to debating that bill is strictly limited.

One hopes it will get more scrutiny in committee and in the Senate.

It can't if it's not split. Each part should be sent to the appropriate committee to be examined, rather than sending the entire bundle to the finance committee.

I never thought about it until nittanylionstorm07 replied, but it also makes it difficult in the future to go back and see where and when the changes were implemented. If I'm searching for changes to immigration laws or environmental laws, I'm not thinking about hunting down budget bills.

I don't want to speak to the specific issues around those sections of the bill itself in this thread. Those would be better debated somewhere else I believe. I'm just concerned about the way the CPC is governing. Their tactics here continue to undermine our institutions, imo.

If you're conservative (not necessarily you bambino), then you might wonder why you should care. You have a majority mandate. So now it's time to govern the way the Conservatives want.

Notwithstanding, this should concern conservatives as well because this kind of governance going forward from a party on the other end of the spectrum would be fiercely opposed. By governing this way now, they're setting a precedent for this kind of thing from the other side.

This is a serious concern not because it's a left versus right issue, but it's an issue of responsible governance.

This is why I point out that the motions will be passed regardless. They have a majority, so they will get their way. We need to be sure that the government (that is to say all governments we have) is operating in an open and transparent way, so they can be held accountable even when their legislation cannot be out voted.

[madmax]

Ok, Your staement is fucking stupid and makes your teeeny weeny little cause totally useless.. Im part of the Canadian Majority and Im sure is speak for all of us when we say "WTF is in your head"...

You win the dumbest post of the week... err "weak"

Hmm,

I am a pretty tolerant person. I have even had some here at one time or another get under my skin. I have also been subject to warnings. I personally leave a little leaway when someone makes a passionate argument with some facts.. even somewhere in a thread, before blowing a gasket or sounding off.

I see a trend in your posts.

Some people here who can make personal attacks, I also know can make stand up arguments whether or not I agree with them.

I suggest you spend some time learning to discuss something.

Try some facts.

Try to establish a dialogue.

Try to realize this is a discussion forum on politics.

[Fletch 27]

Im very sorry, i realise im not Jack Layton and cant talk BS or lie out of both sides of my mouth but the fact is.... Canada has voted in a majority after eons of a minority... Thats a "trend".. a big trend..

I have made no personal attacks other than stating the obvious..

Comments as "While the Conservatives have a majority, so they can pass whatever bills they want, this contradicts their claim to openness and transparency" are simply stupid.. Did you read it?

Love,

Fletch

Hmm,

I am a pretty tolerant person. I have even had some here at one time or another get under my skin. I have also been subject to warnings. I personally leave a little leaway when someone makes a passionate argument with some facts.. even somewhere in a thread, before blowing a gasket or sounding off.

I see a trend in your posts.

Some people here who can make personal attacks, I also know can make stand up arguments whether or not I agree with them.

I suggest you spend some time learning to discuss something.

Try some facts.

Try to establish a dialogue.

Try to realize this is a discussion forum on politics.

[Michael Hardner]

I suggest you spend some time learning to discuss something.

Try some facts.

Try to establish a dialogue.

Try to realize this is a discussion forum on politics.

Great advice there.

[jacee]

Im part of the Canadian Majority and Im sure is speak for all of us ...

"The Canadian majority" is the 70% of us who don't support Harper.

The Harper majority is just a product of election manipulation.

It's a fraud, supported by Canadians who think it's cool to cheat on their taxes and defraud the rest of Canadians, who think the 'environment' is put there for them to make money, who think that imposing punishment on others is a good thing because it makes them feel good, when the truth is that it makes them feel good because they are sickos.

Harper supporters are narcicisst sickos who think as long as there's money going into their pockets while everyone else is suffering, it's all good.

And they are not the majority but unfortunately the majority just shrug and say "What can we do!" (Meaning we can do nothing) while democracy slips away from us.

We got the government we deserve.

And I do mean that.

I no longer have any Canadian spirit.

We're just a bunch of dumb as posts peasants who do what we're told by the money-makers and power-brokers who suck the land dry of resources while throwing us crumbs.

And we deserve it.

No, Fletch, you are not the majority.

But it doesn't matter as long as you have the power, eh!

Sure cybercoma ... email your MP ... and they'll tell you there's nothing they can do about it either. The Tories control committees and the senate, and they have zero interest in anyone's input.

They should all just go on strike. What the hell difference would it make.

And I mean that too.

[g_bambino]

The Harper majority is just a product of election manipulation.

And Earth is the product of string cheese and a Hello Kitty hair clip.

[E]mail your MP... They should all just go on strike. What the hell difference would it make[?]

Then you should be working towards changing the way party leaders are chosen so that caucus has more influence, rather than moaning about being a victim of conspiracies you dreamt up.

[ed.: +]

Edited May 7, 2012 by g_bambino

[jacee]

And Earth is the product of string cheese and a Hello Kitty hair clip.

Then you should be working towards changing the way party leaders are chosen so that caucus has more influence, rather than moaning about being a victim of conspiracies you dreamt up.

[ed.: +]

Screw politics.

It's just a game invented by the colonial masters to make us peasants think we have a say. What difference does a different leader make? The moneysucking powerbrookers are still calling the shots.

The current rules got us here. Obviously, the current rules suck.

Revolution.

Peaceful of course ... but there is no solution 'through normal channels'.

Proportionate representation is a start, but we need much more change than that.

The system isn't working for the majority of us, but only for the elite and their slavies.

No matter how much they tell us Canada is so 'wonderful', it's not.

That's just what they tell us so we'll keep quiet while they throw us crumbs.

Canada is a feudal system designed to allow pillaging of resources for the benefit of the few.

And Canada's ruthless pillaging of resources is worldwide.

Canada isn't 'nice'.

Canadians are just far too willing to believe the crap they feed us while robbing us blind and poisoning our environment.

Canada is not nice and our colonial 'democracy' isn't worth saving.

Revolution.

[g_bambino]

Screw politics.

Well, Cuba is still a one party state. So is North Korea and China. You have a choice of destinations!

[ed.: +]

Edited May 7, 2012 by g_bambino

[Guest Manny]

Canadians are just far too willing to believe the crap they feed us while robbing us blind and poisoning our environment.

Canada is not nice and our colonial 'democracy' isn't worth saving.

Revolution.

It's not that, really. We're just much too busy trying to get the barbecue going.

[Topaz]

The Tories got back in by probably by cheating or vote fraud, OR voters who voted did so to end all the elections at the federal level. I've heard people say, they are all like so I voted Tory to end the elections. What a stupid reason to vote but people do it perhaps those voters that did, are being hit by the changes to CPP, OAS and EI. I understand most voters are working and don't realize what's happening in Ottawa and some just don't care but they better care, their future depends on it as the Tories have shown. So right now, there's doubt if the Tories won illegally.

[madmax]

The Tories got back in by probably by cheating or vote fraud, OR voters who voted did so to end all the elections at the federal level. I've heard people say, they are all like so I voted Tory to end the elections. What a stupid reason to vote but people do it perhaps those voters that did, are being hit by the changes to CPP, OAS and EI. I understand most voters are working and don't realize what's happening in Ottawa and some just don't care but they better care, their future depends on it as the Tories have shown. So right now, there's doubt if the Tories won illegally.

The Conservatives didn't win illegaly.

The Conservatives did steal money from the tax payer for their in and out scheme in 2008 and admitted as much.

Conservatives are involved in the midst of an investigation in which all evidence of Electoral Fraud is leading to Conservatives.

BUT!!! Regardless of the foolish behaviour and who was behind it, in both sets of circumstances I believe the Conservatives would still have their majority today.

All that the actions of the Conservatives have done is reduce their Credibility.

It takes ALOT for voters to say... TOSS THE BUMS OUT!!!

So far the Public has wanted the Conservatives in, and that is what the vote reflects.

On the other side of the pendulum is when, and if all the questionable/Fraudulent or more importantly the lack of accountablility and accounting is enough and understood by the electorate come the next election.

The public was accepting of the liberal actions because they did enough good stuff to allow the voting public to look the other way or ignore those transgressions. But once everything started adding up, the writing was on the wall. But it WASN'T Scandal that took the Libs down, it was the internal fighting and the public had seen enough.

I find the Conservative government underwhelming and disconnected.

Its also very non transparent and far and away nothing like the Reform Party had advocated when it came to government transparency and honesty.

Most people won't care the government kept two sets of books.

Most won't care that the government makes poor omnibus US style bills.

But eventually people will tire of a government and it runs out of steam.

Look at how Bad the BC LibraCons were and yet only now have the public rebelled.

[dre]

Ummm, Simply read it! Pretty f-in transparent to me ! And where is this desperate legilative reform? Oh,, What I voted for??? DUHHHH... Read it!

What the hell is wrong with an efficiant government??????????? "Force"???? Ya! Thats what you can do wen the MAJORITY says you can and we are A-OK with that!!!!!!! Get over your loss.... Your spend thrift, waste of timers are long gone... THIS is how the Majority get stuff done... Thats why its called a majority

The problem is even legislators themselves dont read any of this stuff. And the more crap they try to lump together the greater the chance is that legislation wont be properly reviewed.

[punked]

The problem is even legislators themselves dont read any of this stuff. And the more crap they try to lump together the greater the chance is that legislation wont be properly reviewed.

The problem really isn't them not reading the bills it is them not even writing the bills. Remember when old Vic was shocked when the media told him what was in his own bill which he said if you don't support you are a pedophile? That is the real problem the NDP are reading the bill and are shocked at what is in it but the Cons don't even know what is in.

[cybercoma]

John Ibbitson wrote an excellent article about the handling of omnibus bills by oppositions in the past. He warns that the Conservatives need to be careful, especially if public favour (as it appears to be doing) swings against them.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/john-ibbitson/tories-should-take-care-governments-have-lived-to-regret-omnibus-bills/article2425880/?utm_medium=Feeds:%20RSS/Atom&utm_source=Politics&utm_content=2425880&service=mobile

The Conservatives are determined to push through an omnibus bill that would not only enact Jim Flaherty’s landmark budget but also bring sweeping changes to environmental regulations, unemployment insurance and much else. They should take care.

Bringing down the legislative hammer can force the opposition to take desperate measures, leading to unforeseen consequences. Just ask Tony Clement.

[CPCFTW]

John Ibbitson wrote an excellent article about the handling of omnibus bills by oppositions in the past. He warns that the Conservatives need to be careful, especially if public favour (as it appears to be doing) swings against them.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/john-ibbitson/tories-should-take-care-governments-have-lived-to-regret-omnibus-bills/article2425880/?utm_medium=Feeds:%20RSS/Atom&utm_source=Politics&utm_content=2425880&service=mobile

I'm sure the conservatives are absolutely terrified of a "desperate measure" by the opposition considering the last one gave them a majority!

[punked]

I'm sure the conservatives are absolutely terrified of a "desperate measure" by the opposition considering the last one gave them a majority!

Yah hubris toward the public has treated governments so well in the past, just ask the Liberals.

[CPCFTW]

Yah hubris toward the public has treated governments so well in the past, just ask the Liberals.

What hubris?