Even if you aren't religious. . .

[Boges]

With the revelation that these folks are cranks, can we stop talking about this issue now ?

The story should have been student suspended for relentlessly pushing his faith on fellow students. Not student suspended for wearing a shirt.

I too am surprised this thread is still active after the weekend however.

[cybercoma]

The story should have been student suspended for relentlessly pushing his faith on fellow students. Not student suspended for wearing a shirt.

I too am surprised this thread is still active after the weekend however.

Student suspended for demeaning other for their beliefs.

[capricorn]

I'm going to freak everybody out and start wearing a t-shirt that says "BELIEVE".

[kimmy]

With the revelation that these folks are cranks, can we stop talking about this issue now ?

Hell no.

Obnoxious, beligerant Christian assholes harassing people until they're told to stop, then crying victim when they're told to stop? If not for the fact that this occurred in Nova Scotia, this would be prime material for the "Persecuted Christians in America" thread.

The kid's dad looks like a real champ, in his paramilitary gear. I bet he's got a shed full of assault weapons to defend himself for when the rapture happens.

The Christians :wacko: are being oppressed! :wacko: Somebody put out an APB for Shady. He needs to hear about this.

-k

[jefferiah]

Hell no.

Obnoxious, beligerant Christian assholes harassing people until they're told to stop, then crying victim when they're told to stop? If not for the fact that this occurred in Nova Scotia, this would be prime material for the "Persecuted Christians in America" thread.

So for which of these things did he get suspended?

[kimmy]

So for which of these things did he get suspended?

Being a butt-hole.

-k

[jefferiah]

Being a butt-hole.

-k

Ha! Spirited answer.

What relevance does being a butthole have to the heinous crime of wearing a tshirt?

[kimmy]

Ha! Spirited answer.

What relevance does being a butthole have to the heinous crime of wearing a tshirt?

Look, dude, this kid is a self-made martyr. Desperately wanted to get oppressed so that he could tell the world how he was being oppressed for his beliefs. Found a way. Good for him. How he got the attention he wanted, and the attention he wanted shows the world that he's a kook with a kook dad, and that he went around harassing other students. Good for him. Christian hero. Like I was saying earlier on in the thread, when Christians cry about how their freedom of religion is being oppressed, we usually discover that it's their freedom to be assholes that is being challenged.

The real reason this kid got suspended? Because he's an asshole.

You want a technical reason why he got suspended? Violating dress code or insubordination, I suppose.

-k

[jefferiah]

The real reason this kid got suspended? Because he's an asshole.

You want a technical reason why he got suspended? Violating dress code or insubordination, I suppose.

-k

And the relevance between these two things when judging whether a shirt is ok?

[kimmy]

And the relevance between these two things when judging whether a shirt is ok?

What of it?

Is the shirt really the point? Or is the point that they suspended an obnoxious kid in an effort to try and get him to stop harassing other students?

I guess you've decided that this is about a shirt, while I feel that this is yet another attempt to create a fake martyr for JeeeeeeeZus.

-k

[jefferiah]

What of it?

Is the shirt really the point? Or is the point that they suspended an obnoxious kid in an effort to try and get him to stop harassing other students?

I guess you've decided that this is about a shirt, while I feel that this is yet another attempt to create a fake martyr for JeeeeeeeZus.

-k

Well, seeing as they suspended him for the shirt, it would seem that the relevant issue is the shirt. Not his character otherwise or whatever other rules he has violated. If they wanted to suspend him for harrassment they could have done so. No?

He may be a guy just looking for attention. He may be the worst kid at school, but what does that have to do with the issue at hand?

Now, you may be of the opinion that the shirt in and of itself is wrong, and that is a whole other argument, and in fact the one we were having here. But whether or not he is a jerk is irrelevant.

Edited May 8, 2012 by jefferiah

[kimmy]

Well, seeing as they suspended him for the shirt, it would seem that the relevant issue is the shirt. Not his character otherwise or whatever other rules he has violated. If they wanted to suspend him for harrassment they could have done so. No?

He may be a guy just looking for attention. He may be the worst kid at school, but what does that have to do with the issue at hand?

Now, you may be of the opinion that the shirt in and of itself is wrong, and that is a whole other argument, and in fact the one we were having here. But whether or not he is a jerk is irrelevant.

They jailed Al Capone for tax evasion.

-k

[jefferiah]

They jailed Al Capone for tax evasion.

-k

Ah, well now you are getting back on topic. Tax evasion is illegal. There seems to be some debate here as to whether this shirt was an actual violation of the rules. And whether it is indeed offensive enough to warrant a suspension. And neither this particular kid, nor his past actions, have any relevance to whether this shirt should be allowed in school, if let's say another kid, whose father does not look so kooky to you and who ranks lower on the Kimmy butthole scale, chose to wear it.

Tax evasion warrants an arrest. And the debate is whether this shirt warrants a suspension.

Edited May 8, 2012 by jefferiah

[kimmy]

boo hoo.

Is this the kind of guy you want to go to war for?

Like the Catholics who want to fire the teacher who sought invitro fertilization... I'm having a hard time feeling much sympathy for this punk-ass kid. I think you guys had better find some more sympathetic victims before you start howling about how the new Krystalnacht is upon you.

-k

[jefferiah]

boo hoo.

Is this the kind of guy you want to go to war for?

Like the Catholics who want to fire the teacher who sought invitro fertilization... I'm having a hard time feeling much sympathy for this punk-ass kid. I think you guys had better find some more sympathetic victims before you start howling about how the new Krystalnacht is upon you.

-k

I think you are arguing with someone who is not me. This is an argument you did not resolve with someone else and are trying to finish with me, perhaps? Invitro fertilization? Krystalnacht? Godwin's Law works in mysterious ways.

In any case, my position is that it is ridiculous to suspend someone for this tshirt. You may disagree with that. Obviously Cybercoma and Bonam do, and some agree with me. But whether or not he is worth going to war for is of little relevance. Someone else could wear the tshirt as well. I know precious little about William Swinimer. I have not claimed that he is the victim of a vast anti-Christian conspiracy. Nor am I making him the poster boy for Christian piety. Either way, that does not change the fact that I do not think someone should be suspended for this tshirt. I base this on the premise that (disregarding what anyone else thinks or how they would react) if it were a kid wearing a shirt that says "Life is Wasted Without Allah", I would think it would be overboard for people to take the message that that person is actually saying their life is a waste. I know, I would not even think that. And like I did with Cybercoma, I would say the same thing to someone who said that such a shirt was traumatizing and de-humanizing, that they are over-analyzing it and that over-analyzation is their own problem and not a valid reason to expect someone else to change their clothes. Or to borrow one from the book of Kimmy -- "boo hoo".

So let's examine it from that perspective. And I am not using this particular example because I think "Oh if it were a muslim tshirt this would not have happened." I really do not know what would happen in such a situation, but regardless, it has no bearing upon the illustration I am about to make. Where I am a Christian (perhaps a poor one at that) and you seem to have a great deal of frustration toward Christians, then perhaps the best way for either of us to see the issue clearly is to replace it with another faith.

If you are sitting in school, and someone is wearing an hypothetical t-shirt which reads "Life Is Wasted Without Allah", do you really take that as a message that this person is saying your life is a waste?

Edited May 8, 2012 by jefferiah

[fellowtraveller]

Couple of things I wonder about with this guy, William Swinimer.

First, why is he still in high school at age 19?

Second, his father is reported widely to have 'pulled him out of school' since this incident. Since when could a parent decide that for another adult?

[jefferiah]

deleted

Edited May 8, 2012 by jefferiah

[Michael Hardner]

Hell no.

Obnoxious, beligerant Christian assholes harassing people until they're told to stop, then crying victim when they're told to stop? If not for the fact that this occurred in Nova Scotia, this would be prime material for the "Persecuted Christians in America" thread.

The kid's dad looks like a real champ, in his paramilitary gear. I bet he's got a shed full of assault weapons to defend himself for when the rapture happens.

The Christians :wacko: are being oppressed! :wacko: Somebody put out an APB for Shady. He needs to hear about this.

-k

Ok, but it sounds as though we're talking about those people because they bother us. It's not really a problem beyond them getting on our nerves, is it ?

[Guest Manny]

For the kid, he is just a kid and they often tend to push the limits, for a variety of reasons. It's actually people like us and the media who make a bigger deal out of something like this than it needs to be.

But the level of obnoxious jeering and disrespect for others has escalated throughout our society. We are all rude children.

[fellowtraveller]

For the kid, he is just a kid

No, he is actually an adult.

I have no problem with his shirt or him wearing the shirt.

My answer might be different if it was a teacher.

[Guest Manny]

No, he is actually an adult.

I have no problem with his shirt or him wearing the shirt.

My answer might be different if it was a teacher.

I consider anyone under 20 to be a kid, in general. Because they are still somewhat naive and have a tendency to be impetuous. But you and the other lawyers will disagree.

[fellowtraveller]

I consider anyone under 20 to be a kid, in general. Because they are still somewhat naive and have a tendency to be impetuous. But you and the other lawyers will disagree.

Nothing to do with my opinion or that of lawyers.

He is an adult in every jurisdiction in Canada. Except yours I guess.

[Guest American Woman]

Couple of things I wonder about with this guy, William Swinimer.

First, why is he still in high school at age 19?

A lot of students graduate at 19; nothing unusual about that.

Second, his father is reported widely to have 'pulled him out of school' since this incident. Since when could a parent decide that for another adult?

I haven't read anything to indicate that it's in contradiction to his son's wishes.

[Moonlight Graham]

Now I just really want one of these shirts. But mine will say "Life is wasted without chocolate" or something silly of the sort.

[Guest American Woman]

Now I just really want one of these shirts. But mine will say "Life is wasted without chocolate"...

Mine would say "Life is wasted without American citizenship."