Conservative Finlay Low Wage Immigrant Workers.

[madmax]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1169568--walkom-ottawa-s-low-wage-immigration-policy-threatens-turmoil

On Wednesday, Finley journeyed to Alberta to announce that Ottawa will make it easier — not harder — for employers to hire temporary foreign skilled workers.

More importantly, she said Ottawa will allow employers to pay such foreign workers 15 per cent less than the prevailing wage.

Up to now, employers had to pay temporary foreign skilled workers the going rate. If comparable Canadian workers in an area received on average, say, $20 an hour, foreign workers would have to be paid the same.

No more.

The temporary foreign workers program began as a stop-gap measure in 2000, specifically to deal with a shortage of software specialists. But under pressure from employers — particularly in the Alberta oil patch — it has vastly expanded.

[cybercoma]

There aren't words for how messed up this is and I can't believe for a second that any true conservative would support this crap. We'll see who the partisan hacks are shortly.

[punked]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1169568--walkom-ottawa-s-low-wage-immigration-policy-threatens-turmoil

On Wednesday, Finley journeyed to Alberta to announce that Ottawa will make it easier — not harder — for employers to hire temporary foreign skilled workers.

More importantly, she said Ottawa will allow employers to pay such foreign workers 15 per cent less than the prevailing wage.

Up to now, employers had to pay temporary foreign skilled workers the going rate. If comparable Canadian workers in an area received on average, say, $20 an hour, foreign workers would have to be paid the same.

No more.

The temporary foreign workers program began as a stop-gap measure in 2000, specifically to deal with a shortage of software specialists. But under pressure from employers — particularly in the Alberta oil patch — it has vastly expanded.

This is the start of the end for the middle class in Canada. We had a good run.

[eyeball]

This is the start of the end for the middle class in Canada. We had a good run.

Is it also the end of the left-wing?

All of this is a solution of sorts, I suppose, albeit a 19th century one. But it is a solution that threatens to bring with it the kind of agitation now seen in countries like France, Holland and Greece — where the racist right is on the rise and where far too many workers view immigrants as mortal enemies out to steal their jobs.

Wouldn't that be the final twisted irony?

Edited April 29, 2012 by eyeball

[Topaz]

The Tories keep pushing the average non-tory support, taking away social programs, taking away jobs and they are pushing the NDP right into the PMO next election and if we do have proof that the Tories committed vote fraud, it will be sooner! I like to know what are the jobs these foreign workers will be doing? IF the government or the companies are paying for transportation to Alberta, find housing for these people then why don't they do for CANADIANS?????

[Argus]

Don't look at me. I think the whole idea of temporary workers is ludicrous when we still have high unemployment. We should be training Canadians to do skilled jobs. As for unskilled jobs, well, if they pay more then people will take them. I know I used to.

[punked]

Don't look at me. I think the whole idea of temporary workers is ludicrous when we still have high unemployment. We should be training Canadians to do skilled jobs. As for unskilled jobs, well, if they pay more then people will take them. I know I used to.

I agree with you. Let Canadians prosper from our own wealth.

[Savant]

I don't have a problem with this. We have minimum wage laws, and so long as these wages are above the minimum, then why should anyone object? If you don't want the wage, don't take the job - it's that simple. No one is demanding that people work in these jobs and get FREE health care while they are here. That little tidbit alone should make up for it.

Bottom line, no one is forcing anyone to work. If employers need workers and no one will apply at the wage they are paying, then they will have to pay more. Supply and demand.

No company should be obligated to pay more than minimum wage.

[Argus]

I don't have a problem with this. We have minimum wage laws, and so long as these wages are above the minimum, then why should anyone object? If you don't want the wage, don't take the job - it's that simple. No one is demanding that people work in these jobs and get FREE health care while they are here. That little tidbit alone should make up for it.

Bottom line, no one is forcing anyone to work. If employers need workers and no one will apply at the wage they are paying, then they will have to pay more. Supply and demand.

No company should be obligated to pay more than minimum wage.

What do you do for a living, Savant? Did you put a good deal of time, effort and money into obtaining a skill in order to earn a living? How would you feel if your employer told you he was cutting your salary to minimum wage, and if you didn't like it, you could leave? Oh, he couldn't do that? Sure, he could. He just has to hire a foreign worker who thinks our minimum wage is a kingly sum.

But you could work elsewhere then? Maybe. What happens if this spread, if all the employers realize how cheap it is to hire temporary workers, and all lower their wages?

[punked]

What do you do for a living, Savant? Did you put a good deal of time, effort and money into obtaining a skill in order to earn a living? How would you feel if your employer told you he was cutting your salary to minimum wage, and if you didn't like it, you could leave? Oh, he couldn't do that? Sure, he could. He just has to hire a foreign worker who thinks our minimum wage is a kingly sum.

But you could work elsewhere then? Maybe. What happens if this spread, if all the employers realize how cheap it is to hire temporary workers, and all lower their wages?

Not only that but say you did a trade. Meaning you put your time and money into going to school and getting 1000 apprenticeship hours at a much cheaper wage to get to a higher standard and skill. All of a sudden the government is letting in workers from countries who give out the same credentials but have a much easier process. You are not only at a disadvantage on wages you also have to do more and put more then the other guy so you are at a competitive disadvantage. This has the potential to hurt Canadian workers and our programs.

No Reform Conservative I have ever met would support this. This has to come from the PC wing. Wow you Reformer have been taken for a ride I hope you are liking it. The PCs are back and the only bones the Reform wing gets is one guy taking about abortion and less environmental regulation everything else this government is doing is straight from the PC playbook.

Edited April 29, 2012 by punked

[dre]

Odd that people have gleefully cheered globalism, and the moving of jobs to where cheap labor is. But when they want to move the cheap labor to the jobs are suddenly outrage time.

Seems to me that based on how Canadians act and vote this is exactly what they asked for/ deserve.

This boat sailed along time ago. Consumers decided cheap goods and services trumped wages. At least you all have 60 inch flat screens to watch the bad news on!

Edited April 29, 2012 by dre

[Michael Hardner]

The temporary foreign workers program began as a stop-gap measure in 2000, specifically to deal with a shortage of software specialists. But under pressure from employers — particularly in the Alberta oil patch — it has vastly expanded.

I tried to start a debate on here in the past with westerners who didn't seem to think that immigrants could work in the oilpatch. Looks like they were wrong. Get ready for your wages to drop 15%, and please don't let me hear any complaining out there, thanks.

They're lucky they only got hit 15%. Lots of workers have lost their jobs entirely through globalization.

[punked]

I tried to start a debate on here in the past with westerners who didn't seem to think that immigrants could work in the oilpatch. Looks like they were wrong. Get ready for your wages to drop 15%, and please don't let me hear any complaining out there, thanks.

They're lucky they only got hit 15%. Lots of workers have lost their jobs entirely through globalization.

They are not lucky. The Oil is Canada's it isn't like manufacturing it can't move some where else. Canadians should demand to prosper from it. Instead we wont, we will bring in people who will do the work for less driving the prices of our labour down. Here is the good thing though. Those oil workers who would not even think of unionizing before now might just think having a say in all this might be a good thing. That 15% pay cut might just be enough to unionize those rigs and all of a sudden those workers get their place at the table. Here is to hope.

[j44]

Do we know if this will apply to every sector?

I Know this won't let Tim Horton's pay less than min. wage but what about in Fort Mac where those workers get 15 or 20 bucks an hour?

Would they be able to get 15% less than that?

Harper must have more motives for this. Undercut unions, maybe fill jobs with temp. foreign workers that aren't being filled now by Canadians......what else?

What else do we know about this? There seems to be little info. Out there.

[Michael Hardner]

They are not lucky. The Oil is Canada's it isn't like manufacturing it can't move some where else.

Manufacturing (refining) it is already mostly off shore, isn't it ?

Canadians should demand to prosper from it. Instead we wont, we will bring in people who will do the work for less driving the prices of our labour down. Here is the good thing though. Those oil workers who would not even think of unionizing before now might just think having a say in all this might be a good thing.

The cat is out of the bag with regards to global markets, punked. It's time to retreat and provide a new global offensive. Not sure how old you are, but have you ever heard of OBU ? One Big Union ? The unions were originally against national boundries as a way to divide and conquer. As has been pointed out, these boundries seem to be protecting certain things but not others.

That 15% pay cut might just be enough to unionize those rigs and all of a sudden those workers get their place at the table. Here is to hope.

Around the time of the great railroad, it was written that the Liberals would dominate Alberta... I guess we're headed back there 100-some odd years later.

[punked]

Do we know if this will apply to every sector?

I Know this won't let Tim Horton's pay less than min. wage but what about in Fort Mac where those workers get 15 or 20 bucks an hour?

Would they be able to get 15% less than that?

Harper must have more motives for this. Undercut unions, maybe fill jobs with temp. foreign workers that aren't being filled now by Canadians......what else?

What else do we know about this? There seems to be little info. Out there.

It wouldn't really undercut the unions who could organize in the sectors that have been untouchable for a long time.

His motivation seems to me would be to pay back large donors and lobbyist. Got to do it soon because he can't look like he is bending over backwards for them as we get closer to another election.

Edited April 29, 2012 by punked

[The_Squid]

Only happens in BC in low skilled farm jobs. That isn't good, but at least this would never happen at a mill or mine site. They are unionized and wouldn't allow it to happen.

There is a way to stop this and still vote Conservative, since we know Albertans are allergic to other political parties...... Unionize and no foreign worker will take good paying Canadian jobs and get paid less.

[Argus]

It wouldn't really undercut the unions who could organize in the sectors that have been untouchable for a long time.

His motivation seems to me would be to pay back large donors and lobbyist. Got to do it soon because he can't look like he is bending over backwards for them as we get closer to another election.

What large donors? Isn't $1000 the limit?

[dre]

Manufacturing (refining) it is already mostly off shore, isn't it ?

The cat is out of the bag with regards to global markets, punked. It's time to retreat and provide a new global offensive. Not sure how old you are, but have you ever heard of OBU ? One Big Union ? The unions were originally against national boundries as a way to divide and conquer. As has been pointed out, these boundries seem to be protecting certain things but not others.

Around the time of the great railroad, it was written that the Liberals would dominate Alberta... I guess we're headed back there 100-some odd years later.

Whats required is a new national conversation about this. It appears that some of things we were told by folks trying to sell free trade, globalism, and the "service based economy" were not entirely accurate. Trading good wages, for cheap non-durables, shifting the balance of power from workers to employers might have been rather short sighted.

But really this goes back to what we were talking about in the credit union thread, about the regressive nature of our economic framework, and what the people who run it REALLY WANT TO SEE HAPPEN.

[j44]

It wouldn't really undercut the unions who could organize in the sectors that have been untouchable for a long time.

His motivation seems to me would be to pay back large donors and lobbyist. Got to do it soon because he can't look like he is bending over backwards for them as we get closer to another election.

It could be meant to undercut them and their wages. Whether it works that way or produces more unions is another question.

And I think there is more tO it than just throwing bones to donors and businesses.

[punked]

What large donors? Isn't $1000 the limit?

There is and if you get 1000 dollars from mainly people telling you they need more cheep labour then you give them what they want.

[dre]

Only happens in BC in low skilled farm jobs. That isn't good, but at least this would never happen at a mill or mine site. They are unionized and wouldn't allow it to happen.

There is a way to stop this and still vote Conservative, since we know Albertans are allergic to other political parties...... Unionize and no foreign worker will take good paying Canadian jobs and get paid less.

Only happens in BC in low skilled farm jobs. That isn't good, but at least this would never happen at a mill or mine site. They are unionized and wouldn't allow it to happen.

Dont worry, those unions will get castrated as well, and over the deafening cheers of a large number of Canadians.

[Michael Hardner]

Whats required is a new national conversation about this. It appears that some of things we were told by folks trying to sell free trade, globalism, and the "service based economy" were not entirely accurate. Trading good wages, for cheap non-durables, shifting the balance of power from workers to employers might have been rather short sighted.

But really this goes back to what we were talking about in the credit union thread, about the regressive nature of our economic framework, and what the people who run it REALLY WANT TO SEE HAPPEN.

Where should the conversation happen?

[punked]

Where should the conversation happen?

In an election. I don't remember any of these large decisions on the economy in the Conservative election platform Canadians voted on.

[Michael Hardner]

Blame the Liberals, I guess. Mulroney's FTA was debated for an election.