Happy Passover to Doitwell and others

[bleeding heart]

I don't get what the big whoop is about the Jews

my grandpa hates them but I don't know what they did to attract so much hate

Either do they, which is why they wonder aloud about the subject from time to time.

It's an ancient and rather mysterious bigotry, and it's sad.

[Guest Manny]

It's an ancient and rather mysterious bigotry, and it's sad.

Nothing mysterious about it, it stems from the great Jewish diaspora around AD 100, when Jerusalem was burned by the Romans. The great temple of Solomon was destroyed. Jews fled into the Roman empire, into Europe. Jews did not integrate much into European, christian culture. They were not legally allowed to do most forms of work, other than usury. But over time they did well, profiting from economic hard times and so this created a sense of envy and distrust. It's not hard to hate someone who owns all your stuff and is doing well financially, especially if they are foreigners from an alien culture.

Martin Luther wrote a scathing condemnation of the Jews, called "Jews and their lies". The writings of this "holy man" reads like something out of Mein Kampf. Worse, even than what Hitler wrote. It became an inspiration for antisemitism.

Rumours were that Jews caused the black plague. Because Jews were cleaner than most, and they did not interact with those who were afflicted, the disease often passed them by. People believed that the plague was caused by Jews poisoning the wells at night. So the Jews were hated, and killed.

When Hitler implemented the "Final solution", it met with little resistance. Most countries in Europe were eager to ship their Jews out in box cars. The level of collaboration among nations to put the Jews in concentration camps is not something they are willing to admit, and only in recent decades has the truth of this started to come out.

[bleeding heart]

Nothing mysterious about it, it stems from the great Jewish diaspora around AD 100, when Jerusalem was burned by the Romans. The great temple of Solomon was destroyed. Jews fled into the Roman empire, into Europe. Jews did not integrate much into European, christian culture. They were not legally allowed to do most forms of work, other than usury. But over time they did well, profiting from economic hard times and so this created a sense of envy and distrust. It's not hard to hate someone who owns all your stuff and is doing well financially, especially if they are foreigners from an alien culture.

Martin Luther wrote a scathing condemnation of the Jews, called "Jews and their lies". The writings of this "holy man" reads like something out of Mein Kampf. Worse, even than what Hitler wrote. It became an inspiration for antisemitism.

Rumours were that Jews caused the black plague. Because Jews were cleaner than most, and they did not interact with those who were afflicted, the disease often passed them by. People believed that the plague was caused by Jews poisoning the wells at night. So the Jews were hated, and killed.

Yeah, I'd heard some of this, but you've put it very well.

When Hitler implemented the "Final solution", it met with little resistance. Most countries in Europe were eager to ship their Jews out in box cars. The level of collaboration among nations to put the Jews in concentration camps is not something they are willing to admit, and only in recent decades has the truth of this started to come out.

Indeed. In fact, my understanding is that Germany was not even the most anti-semitic nation in Europe, so no doubt there was a lot of support and collaboration (quiet or otherwise) from European neighbours.

[jbg]

Either do they, which is why they wonder aloud about the subject from time to time.

It's an ancient and rather mysterious bigotry, and it's sad.

There have been reams of books on the subject including Denis Prager's "Why the Jews". I suspect that it's easy to revile an immigrant, ethnic or cultural group that does not participate in society and is unsuccessful. Muslims and, in Europe, gypsies (or Roma) fit that description. The Jews are a harder case for a number of reasons. The Jews are willing to join society, are by and large extremely successful and play by the rules. Yet the Jews refuse to recognize the supremacy of "majority" group.

I suspect the relationship, on balance, is more "love-hate" than pure hatred in the "doitwell" sense, or the bud, dub, naomiglover sense. Society wants the Jews' ability to "get things done" but fears and envies the Jews' fruits of their successes.

[Shady]

What a difference between the happy Easter thread and the happy Passover thread. For whatever reason, the happy Easter thread has galvanized the anti-Christian bigots of the forum, insulting, demeaning, and in general finding some way to crap on the Christian holiday. For whatever reason, Jewish holiday has been spared. Makes you wonder.

[The_Squid]

What a difference between the happy Easter thread and the happy Passover thread. For whatever reason, the happy Easter thread has galvanized the anti-Christian bigots of the forum, insulting, demeaning, and in general finding some way to crap on the Christian holiday. For whatever reason, Jewish holiday has been spared. Makes you wonder.

It does make one wonder.... Perhaps Jews on this forum are nice and the Christians are assholes? I don't know. Any other theories?

[jbg]

It does make one wonder.... Perhaps Jews on this forum are nice and the Christians are assholes? I don't know. Any other theories?

Well I am the Jewish poster on this forum. To my knowledge the only one.

[The_Squid]

Well I am the Jewish poster on this forum. To my knowledge the only one.

Now, does that prove my theory, or refute it???

[TheNewTeddy]

I have Conservative MPs, Liberal MPs, NDP MPs, Journalists, and Personal Friends on my Twitter. Many of them mentioned Passover. The first to mention Easter was Elizabeth May.

[bleeding heart]

There have been reams of books on the subject including Denis Prager's "Why the Jews". I suspect that it's easy to revile an immigrant, ethnic or cultural group that does not participate in society and is unsuccessful. Muslims and, in Europe, gypsies (or Roma) fit that description. The Jews are a harder case for a number of reasons. The Jews are willing to join society, are by and large extremely successful and play by the rules. Yet the Jews refuse to recognize the supremacy of "majority" group.

II suspect the relationship, on balance, is more "love-hate" than pure hatred

That's interesting. I think you might be on to something here.

Society wants the Jews' ability to "get things done" but fears and envies the Jews' fruits of their successes.

If this is so, I'd have to reiterate that it sounds like a kind of pathology. There'd be no reason to fear Jewish success unless there was some notion of a competition at hand, and let's just say I'm not seeing it.

[bleeding heart]

What a difference between the happy Easter thread and the happy Passover thread. For whatever reason, the happy Easter thread has galvanized the anti-Christian bigots of the forum, insulting, demeaning, and in general finding some way to crap on the Christian holiday. For whatever reason, Jewish holiday has been spared. Makes you wonder.

Well, so much for your theory that people are specifically giving Muslims a pass.

To the extent that Christianity gets hit harder on this forum than the others, I suspect it has a lot to do with the predominance of Christianity in this society over the other religions. If this were a society with something else as the primary faith, then perhaps that would receive the bulk of the criticism.

I see no problem with that, especially since the touted victimhood of Christians is a laughable concept. Society-wide, atheists are held in a lot more suspicion and dark misapprehensions.

Edited April 10, 2012 by bleeding heart

[jbg]

There have been reams of books on the subject including Denis Prager's "Why the Jews". I suspect that it's easy to revile an immigrant, ethnic or cultural group that does not participate in society and is unsuccessful. Muslims and, in Europe, gypsies (or Roma) fit that description. The Jews are a harder case for a number of reasons. The Jews are willing to join society, are by and large extremely successful and play by the rules. Yet the Jews refuse to recognize the supremacy of "majority" group.I suspect the relationship, on balance, is more "love-hate" than pure hatred in the "doitwell" sense, or the bud, dub, naomiglover sense.

That's interesting. I think you might be on to something here.

Thanks for recognizing that. It's obviously not a "fact", but rather a well-formed opinion. Societies have always discriminated against identifiable minorities or disadvantaged groups, whether it be recent immigrants, gays, First Nations, racial minorities or victims of mental illness. Even women, though not technically a minority, have suffered discrimination for the simple reason that it was and to some extent still is possible. People love to "pile on" and kick people when they are down. Makes them feel better.

That's tougher to do with the Jews, other than through forcible and, in our society illegal violence. The Jews have historically been successful well beyond their numbers, and that gives the "bully-types" conniptions.

Society wants the Jews' ability to "get things done" but fears and envies the Jews' fruits of their successes.

If this is so, I'd have to reiterate that it sounds like a kind of pathology. There'd be no reason to fear Jewish success unless there was some notion of a competition at hand, and let's just say I'm not seeing it.

I agree with you that I'm not a very scary person, and most Jews aren't. All the same, people want the fruits of success. The problem is that if they were unmotivated in school, or didn't have access to good schools, they are starting out behind the curve. The Jews have, with important individual exceptions and the partial group exception of Jews from the Levant, managed to position themselves as educated. When the schools suck, they arranged to learn and study themselves.Parents (including myself) do not tolerate apathy or sloth among their children. I do notice that many in other cultures are far more laid back about incomplete homework than my wife and I are.

[Guest American Woman]

It does make one wonder.... Perhaps Jews on this forum are nice and the Christians are assholes? I don't know. Any other theories?

How about perhaps the atheists are assholes? That could never be, eh?

Edited April 10, 2012 by American Woman

[bleeding heart]

How about perhaps the atheists are assholes? That could never be, eh?

Christopher Hitchens was, that's for sure. But then, his close friends thought him a lovely person, so who's to say.....

[Guest Peeves]

Like I've said before, I don't know how to read you. At any rate, that site lists the many synagogues in Canada for anyone who is interested.

Edited to add: Here's another - Jewish Canada

There are several in the Niagara Region not listed here.

[jbg]

There are several in the Niagara Region not listed here.

Interesting because my search of that site disclosed no synagogues in YU, NWT and NU, and only one in NL.

[The_Squid]

Interesting because my search of that site disclosed no synagogues in YU, NWT and NU, and only one in NL.

Aren't demographics a bitch! No Jews = no sinagogues. Why is this a surprise?

[Jack Weber]

Interesting because my search of that site disclosed no synagogues in YU, NWT and NU, and only one in NL.

Perhaps broadening your search to...I don't know...Areas of larger populations where Jews might be found in large enough numbers to warrant synagogues??

Just throwin' that one out there....

Or are intimating the Inuit are anti-Semitic?

Edited April 10, 2012 by Jack Weber

[Shady]

Well, so much for your theory that people are specifically giving Muslims a pass.

Yep, looks like Judaism gets a pass as well. Probably every other religion too. It's only Christianity that gets treated differently for whatever reason. Some might even call that a type of persecution, eh kimmy?

[Guest American Woman]

There are several in the Niagara Region not listed here.

I don't doubt that there are many more all over Canada that are not listed, but the list clearly shows that contrary to the claim being made, there are many synagogues in Canada.

[kimmy]

Interesting because my search of that site disclosed no synagogues in YU, NWT and NU, and only one in NL.

There used to be. They kept melting when they lit all those candles.

-k

[kimmy]

Yep, looks like Judaism gets a pass as well. Probably every other religion too. It's only Christianity that gets treated differently for whatever reason.

I think the reason that nobody made fun of the Jews on this message board last weekend is that we didn't hear about any Jews making complete asses of themselves.

The thread you're referring to was started by Boges (who has identified himself as a Christian, if I recall correctly...) to make mention of a bunch of Filipino morons who decided to celebrate Easter by getting nailed to crosses.

And I added the link to the Carolina pastor who sent out the "dead bunny" Easter greeting because I thought it fit the general theme.

The thread wasn't making fun of Christians, it was making fun of idiots doing stupid things to mark Easter.

If you've got any stories of Jews doing funny things, feel free. Right now the closest we have is JBG asking why there are no synagogues in the far north. When Jews do jump the shark-- like the chumps in New York harassing women riding on the Jewish bus, or the fundie crazies in Israel throwing fecal matter at elementary-school girls because they're "immodestly dressed", they get called on it.

Some might even call that a type of persecution, eh kimmy?

Sure, some might call it that, if they wanted to be laughed at. If you think that other thread is persecution, all I can say is that you are seriously lacking in perspective.

-k

[Guest Manny]

Yeah that's right, just like people make "idiotic posts", but in saying that we are not actually calling them idiots...

[jbg]

There used to be. They kept melting when they lit all those candles.

Doesn't that happen to all Canadian structures, particularly during the summer?

[jbg]

If you've got any stories of Jews doing funny things, feel free. Right now the closest we have is JBG asking why there are no synagogues in the far north. When Jews do jump the shark-- like the chumps in New York harassing women riding on the Jewish bus, or the fundie crazies in Israel throwing fecal matter at elementary-school girls because they're "immodestly dressed", they get called on it.

As they should be.

Add that to the Orthodox Jews in Israel, back in November, who spit at an eight year old girl, on her way to school, for being "immodestly dressed". Or the Jews in Rockland County, who attempted to burn alive a worshiper who wanted to worship in the "wrong" facility (link to thread).

The reason why this is news when it happens with Jews is that it's rare. Unlike the situation in Pakistan (link in headline, excerpts below), or other similar paradisaical lands.

Years After Acid Horror, Suicide Stirs Pakistan

(link)

KARACHI, Pakistan — Fakhra Younas went under the surgeon’s knife 38 times, hoping to repair the gruesome damage inflicted by a vengeful Pakistani man who had doused her face in acid a decade earlier, virtually melting her mouth, nose and ears.

*****************

On Feb. 28, Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy, a Karachi filmmaker, won Pakistan’s first Academy Award, for “Saving Face,” a documentary that focuses in gritty detail on victims of acid violence like Ms. Younas. Despite the film’s disturbing topic, the Oscar gave Pakistanis a welcome shot of national pride, while focusing attention on a social ill.

Acid is the preferred weapon of vindictive men against women accused of disloyalty or disobedience. Common in several Asian countries, acid attacks in Pakistan grew sharply in number in 2011, to 150 from 65 in 2010, although some advocacy workers said the increase stemmed largely from better reporting.